Prices At The Pump Are For The Future Liberal World Order

[Wildswanderer]

They are why the Supreme Court has become the enemy of ordinary Americans unleashing guns, greenhouse gases, and school prayer on them

Oh good grief. The horror! Someone might have to hear a prayer! We have the actual rights that were guaranteed in the constitution again! How awful!

Take away every gas powered car in America and it does nothing for the environment compared to the real polluters. And the people who are advocating that we peasants all sell our cars and buy electric cars are using more energy in a day in their mansions then we use in a year in our little houses.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We aren't talking about Trump. You seem a little obsessed with him.
Biden only makes gaffs when he forgets to read the cue card and accidentally says something he actually thought of.

Yes, we have to since it shows that you are not consistent in your criticism. Your complaints about Biden have also for the most part been baseless. You cannot defend hardly any of them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh good grief. The horror! Someone might have to hear a prayer! We have the actual rights that were guaranteed in the constitution again! How awful!

Take away every gas powered car in America and it does nothing for the environment compared to the real polluters. And the people who are advocating that we peasants all sell our cars and buy electric cars are using more energy in a day in their mansions then we use in a year in our little houses.

Too bad that you do not know how pollution works. A hundred million little polluters is an enormous problem. Of course we face the reality that we have to get off of fossil fuels, ICE's are only about a bit more than a quarter of the problem, but they are the biggest part of the problem right now:

Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | US EPA

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Then in about ten years or so you might have a problem. Though by then the number of charging stations will be much greater than today. Please note, no one has said that you have to change today. You will have to change sometime in the fairly near future. The world rarely listens to unreasonable demands of a small minority.

I don't have any ideological issue with owning an EV, just an issue with infrastructure. It could change but we're heading into another recession and housing market crash. I'm not that small a minority in the US, and it's going to grow as less people live in homes and can't afford EV or charge them at their place of dwelling. Especially not overdesigned poorly made mid-life-crisis-mobiles like Tesla.

I do have some concern over focusing environmental issues on the consumers when they are the minority of waste producers, though. And I sometimes wonder if pushing for EVs so hard is driven at least partially by corporate marketing to sell fancy toys like 'organic' branding. Or even just mismanaged ignorance like the 'plastic straw issue.'

Again though, my point is just there's millions of Americans in suburbs without access to homes or sufficient public transit. We need practical solutions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't have any ideological issue with owning an EV, just an issue with infrastructure. It could change but we're heading into another recession and housing market crash. I'm not that small a minority in the US, and it's going to grow as less people live in homes and can't afford EV or charge them at their place of dwelling. Especially not overdesigned poorly made mid-life-crisis-mobiles like Tesla.

I do have some concern over focusing environmental issues on the consumers when they are the minority of waste producers, though. And I sometimes wonder if pushing for EVs so hard is driven at least partially by corporate marketing to sell fancy toys like 'organic' branding. Or even just mismanaged ignorance like the 'plastic straw issue.'

Again though, my point is just there's millions of Americans in suburbs without access to homes or sufficient public transit. We need practical solutions.

There is no "majority" when it comes to pollution. But when it comes to transportation, and privately owned cars is the vast majority of that, it is the plurality when it comes to sources of CO2:

Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | US EPA

Yes, there is a recession, who knows how bad it will be. It is international and was pretty obviously caused by how governments had to react to the pandemic.

And the plastic straw issue was more of symbology and seeing if they could get people to make a very small sacrifice for a major problem. My grocery store currently charges a small fee if you do not have your own bag. I both have my own totes, which are handy since I currently walk the half mile to my store. I am the one that pretty much cooks for two to four people in my house. And that means a couple of trips a day often. I need my exercise so that I do not mind. I just can't get bags and bags of groceries in one trip . At any rate if I have to buy a bag I will usually reuse it about four times before trashing it. I am a bit cheap when it comes to matters like that and I know that I should be doing it anyway. Also, since they changed to bags that one pays for they are much sturdier bags than the free ones they use to use. Doubling those up was standard and sometimes tripling if one had a box with sharp edges.

The change will not be sudden. People in the suburbs will have time to either adapt or move.

 

[74x12]

You admitted to not having a valid argument when you claimed to be piecing quotes together and even worse "reading between the lines".

Inductive reasoning is not an invalid form of logic.

You took that old Col 44 and shot yourself square in the foot again.

And I thought I was aiming for my head with this president in charge.

The challenge was simple and fair.

I hadn't been aware of any challenge. But I'm sure it was simple and fair. Yeah right.

Find a source that supports you with quotes not taken out of context.

I can just listen to Biden and his administration and think about what they said based on knowledge and reasoning. This is fair. And they couldn't be more obvious.

And it has to be a reliable source too.

Most likely what you think is reliable is not reliable to me. Because I don't trust known liars.

You could not do that.

Whadaya know.

The deluded one would have to be the one that makes claims and cannot support them. In this case it has been you.

First of all of you're ignoring inductive reasoning.

And your dismissive demands are only a way to hide from the obvious. Which suggests that you're either purposefully attempting to obfuscate truth or you're in a state of denial.

Either way I don't see an actual argument from you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Inductive reasoning is not an invalid form of logic.

You did not use that.

And I thought I was aiming for my head with this president in charge.

Nope, but you did at least hit something.

I hadn't been aware of any challenge. But I'm sure it was simple and fair. Yeah right.

Really? It was quite clear. All that you had to do was to support your beliefs without quote mining and by using a reliable source. How is that not fair? I know, it is terribly unfair of me to demand that people be honest and find reputable sources

I can just listen to Biden and his administration and think about what they said based on knowledge and reasoning. This is fair. And they couldn't be more obvious.

Your reasoning has been shown to be flawed again and again.

Most likely what you think is reliable is not reliable to me. Because I don't trust known liars.

Yes, you do. I have seen you are ague against evolution. There are sources that show where a source lies on the political spectrum and if they have been caught being dishonest or not. Why not use one of those to judge your sources? If not Reuters is dead center when it comes to news stories. It is neither right nor left.

Whadaya know.

First of all of you're ignoring inductive reasoning.

No, ignoring your inability to use it properly is not ignoring inductive reasoning. Like so many that do not seem to understand a concept you have adopted a phrase that you think supports you.

And your dismissive demands are only a way to hide from the obvious. Which suggests that you're either purposefully attempting to obfuscate truth or you're in a state of denial.

Either way I don't see an actual argument from you.

My demands have only be rational ones. My demands are those that require real evidence and not your misinterpretation of what was said. How is that unfair? I know, it is unfair because your claims fall apart when proper sources and real logic are used.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

There is no "majority" when it comes to pollution. But when it comes to transportation, and privately owned cars is the vast majority of that, it is the plurality when it comes to sources of CO2:

Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions | US EPA

Private includes the vast array of wasteful corporate transport, with a significant dent by Amazon alone. Who not only emphasizes an instant gratification consumerist culture but makes it harder to shop locally by putting local shops who can't compete out of business.
And that's just a small part of the wastefulness of online shopping as a whole. There's also wasteful trade routes controlled by corporate lobby groups.

Yes, there is a recession, who knows how bad it will be. It is international and was pretty obviously caused by how governments had to react to the pandemic.

We were headed to a recession before covid, covid just helped speed it along. Ditto with a housing crisis.
Ditto with a supply shortage, and honestly I think the rapidly depleting rare earth minerals poses a much bigger and more immediate danger than fosil fuel shortage, but the dinosaurs at the EPA and public relations couldn't accurately describe to the public how much impact rare earth and thus electronics shortages could massively **** up the global market until the combination of the Suez canal blockage and crypto processor hoarders.

And the plastic straw issue was more of symbology and seeing if they could get people to make a very small sacrifice for a major problem.

grocery store currently charges a small fee if you do not have your own bag.

I don't see it that way. The problem was massively trumped up by corporate interests looking to shoulder the burden of plastic waste onto the consumer when the real big problem is manufacturing and shipping dumping. You should see the massive amount of unclaimed or unsold product Amazon dumps every day. Including vast quantities of disposable straws.

Plus the substitutions offered the consumer, such as paper straws or canvas bags, dont necessarily have a smaller carbon footprint, again due to larger waste in manufacturing. You have to use canvas bags far longer than their typical shelf life to offset carbon footprint in their production. In some cases you'd be better off just reusing your disposable plastic bags a few times.

Again, I think a lot of the time pressure on consumers is misplaced when we should be focused on pressures on manufacturers and distributors.

The change will not be sudden. People in the suburbs will have time to either adapt or move.

I'm not that optimistic.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

They can vote out the people who are deliberately causing artificially high prices for their own agenda.

I wrote, "They'll just have to adapt to their new economic reality. What choice do they have?"

Yeah, as I explained, I expect quite a bit of that type of thinking. Combined with voter suppression and Republican state legislatures taking over elections, that kind of reasoning may well overcome the incentive for people to get out and vote Democratic following revealing the criminality and corruption of the Republican party, its theocratic vision revealed by the overturning of Roe, and its disinterest in effectively regulating guns. They can vote the Republicans back into power, but as I explained, reinstating the Republicans will continue to increase their economic pain long after gas prices and inflation stabilize or come down.

But remember, I see this as a good thing. Americans will perforce gradually adapt to the life that they will be able to afford, and it can be a good but different one. Hopefully, they'll figure out how to do that, but there will be a learning curve. They have no good examples now, especially those that never travel out of the US. What they know is fast food and packaged processed foods, beauty parlors, and bars - all way overpriced compared to the alternatives, not to mention unhealthy and environmentally unfriendly.

Take away every gas powered car in America and it does nothing for the environment compared to the real polluters.

Yes, and prevent every murder and it does nothing for crime compared the real criminals, white collar criminals. That's a poor argument.

You seem defeatest on this matter. I'm pessimistic as well, but in a different way. You think the problem can't be helped or that it is exaggerated. I think the opposite, but also believe that it won't be helped quickly enough to prevent global catastrophe.

And the people who are advocating that we peasants all sell our cars and buy electric cars are using more energy in a day in their mansions then we use in a year in our little houses.

That's a caricature, and you seem offended. The only pressure on people uninterested in global warming will be gas and automobile prices - financial. You seem put off by having the option or other people exercising it. That's good for the fossil fuel industry that you do, that you ridicule these efforts, which may be why you feel that way.

And you still don't get it. It's not about energy consumption. It's about greenhouse gas emissions. I explained to you how we use electricity liberally in our household, and so can people in mansions. Although being green energy is incentive enough, it's also free (our panels paid for themselves several years ago, so now it's free).

 

[Wildswanderer]

They have no good examples now, especially those that never travel out of the US. What they know is fast food and packaged processed foods, beauty parlors, and bars - all way overpriced compared to the alternatives, not to mention unhealthy and environmentally unfriendly.

You have an odd perception of the US. Lots of people don't eat fast food that much or prepackaged food. That's everyone's choice and not just in the states.

 

[Wildswanderer]

And you still don't get it. It's not about energy consumption. It's about greenhouse gas emissions. I explained to you how we use electricity liberally in our household, and so can people in mansions. Although being green energy is incentive enough, it's also free (our panels paid for themselves several years ago, so now it's free).

Not everyone lives where solar panels are a viable option. BTW a quick search will tell you your country runs on natural gas mostly. Apparently you are in the privileged 5 percent that gets solar power.

So I'm not sure you are in any place to lecture those in the US.

We've been drying clothes by hanging them for 30 plus year, BTW and burning wood for heat, so our fossil fuel use isn't much.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nope. And now you are for all practical purposes a creationists. The speaker did not mean what you want him to mean.

Sure. Yea right.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure. Yea right.

Then I will give you a fair chance. Prove it by quoting reliable sources in context, with links. The last person that I challenged that way would not even try.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not everyone lives where solar panels are a viable option. BTW a quick search will tell you your country runs on natural gas mostly. Apparently you are in the privileged 5 percent that gets solar power.

So I'm not sure you are in any place to lecture those in the US.

We've been drying clothes by hanging them for 30 plus year, BTW and burning wood for heat, so our fossil fuel use isn't much.

Transportation is still the largest source of CO2. Why are you complaining about rising gas prices?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Then I will give you a fair chance. Prove it by quoting reliable sources in context, with links. The last person that I challenged that way would not even try.

You received the quote

You ignored and dismissed that quote.

Not my problem.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Not everyone lives where solar panels are a viable option. BTW a quick search will tell you your country runs on natural gas mostly. Apparently you are in the privileged 5 percent that gets solar power. So I'm not sure you are in any place to lecture those in the US. We've been drying clothes by hanging them for 30 plus year, BTW and burning wood for heat, so our fossil fuel use isn't much.

Good for you for keeping your carbon footprint lower with those practices. I'm not sure if burning wood reduces carbon emissions relative to other methods of generating heat, but probably.

I don't know that I'm lecturing here. I said that I am glad for anything that reduces gasoline consumption, that I consider global warming the greatest threat today, that I wouldn't expect going green to lead to economic collapse, that the issue isn't about how much energy one consumes but rather how it is generated, and that if people experience increasing degradation of their standard of living from high gas prices, inflation, or whatever, that they will have to adapt, and that this would be a good thing for them and everybody else.

I also added that voting Republican as a reaction will not only not help them, it will increase their hardship if the Republicans reclaim majority status. Republicans don't care about them. Do you think otherwise?

I also said that I expect that to happen within the decade, and for global warning to be allowed to increase to crisis levels, in which case people will need to adapt to the new normal climate as well as the new normal standard of living.

You have an odd perception of the US. Lots of people don't eat fast food that much or prepackaged food.

I'd say that it is you that has the odd perception of the US. Many people do eat fast food daily, especially among people earning low wages. An indirect measure of the size of the fast food market is the number of adds that run for McDonald's, Wendy's, etc..

I think that you live off the grid somewhat based on comments you've made over the last several months, maybe as something of a mountain man. Your screen name suggests that you identify with that kind of life, and you refer to hunting for food rather than pure sport with a food bonus.

I got the impression when you said that you burn wood for heat that you meant exclusively, like my buddy who built and lived in a log cabin (he felled the trees) in the woods, but maybe not. Maybe you have a home in the suburbs and drive to a job, but I don't think so. Do you buy eggs or just go out back to the chickens and collect them? If I'm on the right track, remember, most Americans don't live like that.

 

[Wildswanderer]

if people experience increasing degradation of their standard of living from high gas prices, inflation, or whatever, that they will have to adapt, and that this would be a good thing for them and everybody else.

I also added that voting Republican as a reaction will not only not help them, it will increase their hardship if the Republicans reclaim majority status. Republicans don't care about them. Do you think otherwise?

I think republican policies have been better for the economy which is better for the average worker. There's nothing good about people going into poverty because of our governments silly energy policies.

 

[tytlyf]

I think republican policies have been better for the economy which is better for the average worker. There's nothing good about people going into poverty because of our governments silly energy policies.

Republican policies are better for the 1% and corporations.
The middle class has been vanishing in America since Reagan and Republican policies.
Republicans are not pro-worker policy.
They are anti-union, anti-wage increase, anti-corporate tax, anti-social security, anti-affordable healthcare, etc.
These hurt working people.
There's a reason Republican run states have worse economies and more poverty.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think republican policies have been better for the economy which is better for the average worker. There's nothing good about people going into poverty because of our governments silly energy policies.

And yet you cannot name one single "silly energy policy".

 

[Wildswanderer]

got the impression when you said that you burn wood for heat that you meant exclusively, like my buddy who built and lived in a log cabin (he felled the trees) in the woods, but maybe not. Maybe you have a home in the suburbs and drive to a job, but I don't think so. Do you buy eggs or just go out back to the chickens and collect them? If I'm on the right track, remember, most Americans don't live like that.

Most Americans don't live in any certain way... there's a lot of variety here. Lots of people burn wood for heat in rural America, BTW. They might or might not have a fuel back up. We raise chickens but that's not even unusual in much of America. I think you're stereotyping both of our countries. I'm sure lots of Mexicans exist on fast food also.