Pro-choice vs Abortion

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Of course the depression and risk of cancer are considerations
not to mention the most typical reason for an abortion in the world which is that the child is a little girl.

You have proof of this crazy claim? No? Well.....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God may do things that result in a greater good.

Prove it. First? You have to demonstrate how on earth forcing unwanted babies in an over-populated world, is "greater good"...

Wait... no... first, you have to prove you even HAVE a god who is interested in the "greater good".

Because of all the EVIL in the world, which could be PREVENTED by your "god"?

Goes un-prevented? Proves to 100% that your god isn't interested in the "greater good" in the slightest.

Infants with cancer. THAT RIGHT THERE proves your god is incompetent or evil (or myth)

The fact that the majority of people-- if given the chance and power-- would prevent all rapes they were aware of?

Proves the majority of people are more moral than your god.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Prove it. First? You have to demonstrate how on earth forcing unwanted babies in an over-populated world, is "greater good"...

Wait... no... first, you have to prove you even HAVE a god who is interested in the "greater good".

Because of all the EVIL in the world, which could be PREVENTED by your "god"?

Goes un-prevented? Proves to 100% that your god isn't interested in the "greater good" in the slightest.

Infants with cancer. THAT RIGHT THEIR proves your god is incompetent or evil (or myth)

The fact that the majority of people-- if given the chance and power-- would prevent all rapes they were aware of?

Proves the majority of people are more moral than your god.

I gave two great examples. Jesus and Joseph.

 

[whirlingmerc]

You have proof of this crazy claim? No? Well.....

The vast majority of studies prove both.

The main exceptions being the research arms of Planned parenthood. Sounds like they aren't the most unbiased sources.

Yes, young women are at highest risk do planned parenthood share that information... no

quote
Highest risks were observed when the abortion was done at ages younger than 18 years--particularly if it took place after 8 weeks' gestation--or at 30 years of age or older. No increased risk of breast cancer was associated with a spontaneous abortion (RR = 0.9; 95% CI = 0.7-1.2).
unquote
Risk of breast cancer among young women: relationship to induced abortion. - PubMed - NCBI


and of course abortion commonly leads to depression
Depression after abortion: Understanding and coping
and so imagine a young woman who gets an abortion pill and has no one to talk to not confiding in her parents

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I gave two great examples. Jesus and Joseph.

Jesus never existed. Joseph is simply a character out of your Big Book Of Myth-- and also never existed.

We have quite complete histories of ancient Egypt-- no Jewish Joseph in there.

So your "examples" do not work in the real world.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The vast majority of studies prove both..

Both what?

The main exceptions being the research arms of Planned parenthood. Sounds like they aren't the most unbiased sources.
.

There you go-- they are the least biased you can get access to. None of your anti-choice/anti-women "studies" can be trusted.

Yes, young women are at highest risk do planned parenthood share that information... no.

Citation Needed. You think I'm going to take your word? Hardly.

quote
Highest risks were observed when the abortion was done at ages younger than 18 years--particularly if it took place after 8 weeks' gestation--or at 30 years of age or older. No increased risk of breast cancer was associated with a spontaneous abortion (RR = 0.9; 95% CI = 0.7-1.2).
unquote
Risk of breast cancer among young women: relationship to induced abortion. - PubMed - NCBI
.

Flawed study. Did it take into account other cancer risks? Such as environment, society, medical availability? No.

and of course abortion commonly leads to depression
Depression after abortion: Understanding and coping
and so imagine a young woman who gets an abortion pill and has no one to talk to not confiding in her parents

I do not doubt that some abortions lead to depression. You have a point? No?

You don't think forced birth is MUCH HIGHER RISK OF DEATH due to childbirth?

What about depression because of being FORCED TO CARRY A HATED PARASITE OF AN ABUSER?

What about post-birth depression VERY COMMON-- I quite imagine increased if the baby cannot be cared for, or is unwanted....

Especially among the under 18 crowd? YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORE THESE FACTS.

Typical.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The fact that the majority of people-- if given the chance and power-- would prevent all rapes they were aware of? Proves the majority of people are more moral than your god.

You've probably seen this :

If the following doesn't start at 13:19, jump ahead to there.




Warning. After the host hangs up on the caller, he drops a s-bomp "You POS"

"You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, 'When you're done, I'm going to punish you' .. If I were in a situation where I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That's the difference between me and your God." - Tracie Harris

If the following doesn't start at

Warning. After the host hangs up on the caller, he drops a s-bomp "You POS"

 

[Dan From Smithville]

My point was humanity must have a strategy for evolution that ensures that the human species survives this feminist crusade in favour of abortion on demand. This would require legislation to identify the deserving cases from the undeserving ones.

It is called eugenics and it did not fair to well.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You've probably seen this :

If the following doesn't start at 13:19, jump ahead to there.



Warning. After the host hangs up on the caller, he drops a s-bomp "You POS"

"You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, 'When you're done, I'm going to punish you' .. If I were in a situation where I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That's the difference between me and your God." - Tracie Harris

If the following doesn't start at

Warning. After the host hangs up on the caller, he drops a s-bomp "You POS"

I've seen it-- more than once.

I've also seen where Matt D eviscerates a hate-cultist who claims to be a loving christian.

I love Matt's parting shot: "I was more of a christian than you'll ever be... and I still am."

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is called eugenics and it did not fair to well.

Are you implying that there just might be the teensiest tiniest bit of racism involved in this proposed program to decide who gets aborted?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm pro-life, because I believe in the sanctity if human life. I'm pro-choice, because I respect other people's freedoms.

I frub'd you a "winner" for this post, but I would really like to hear you expand on this. I have done so in the past, in long, wordy posts that have been mostly ignored. Perhaps you can manage it better, or at least more succinctly, than I can?

 

[Shad]

eh, many things could be a precursor to a potential life. A marriage, a thought, the existence of a couple genders.

Nope.

A zygote might not be too far outside the realm of a mere thought. It's only at about 30% of the download, leaving plenty plenty of time to cancel the download without an unreasonable amount of time vested in it. The big files for emotion, reason, and human form aren't there yet, and if you don't want it, it makes sense to cancel it before they give the new program partial functionality.

It isn't a computer program nor software from MS update

Also, you could look at it from the angle of recapitulation theory, which describes an organism's developmental process as accelerating through its phylogeny as it develops in a womb. That means that a human zygote actually represents a reflection of a biological organism probably several billion years ago, which probably was more or less the potential base for a number of other organisms.

Nope.

So technically, if you freeze the state of the zygote, all your looking at is really some highly generalized archean organism, if ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny.

Nope.

 

[Shad]

Each State has its own strategy for human evolution, so at the end the stronger national societies will dominate world affairs through population management.

Medical knowledge is saving people that would otherwise die thus weaker genes are reproduced in the next generation.

 

[Kenny]

No. The US Constitution strictly forbids elevating one religion over another or no religion.

???? And what is the prices of eggs in China?

Since there is no scientific consensus as to when a fetus has a working brain? We use Best Practice, which puts that well into the 3rd trimester.

No... that is WORST Practice

Barring severe medial issues? All abortions obtained because the woman does not wish to be pregnant, occur long-long before the 3rd.

Abortions occurring that late, are always traumatic events-- because the woman wanted to have that kid, else she'd not let it go that long... and it's akin to losing child.

All?? where did you get that info from?

SO THERE REALLY IS NO NEED OF ANY OF THESE ANTI-WOMEN/ANTI-CHOICE HATE-LAWS.

Fake news!!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Actually there are quite a few arguments from many people, depending on definition. If you believe that being living human biological tissue constitutes a being, then OK. If You believe some level of consciousness or experiential factor is required, then not so much.

Yes, and let's try some examples (that even include "consent"):

Example 1: the sun worshipper who forgets the UPF cream, ad subsequently develops a melanoma. That melanoma is unquestionably human tissue, and it arose because at least one party (the one who got the melanoma), obviously consented (though the sun cannot be said to have done likewise). Can it be ethical to remove that very human tissue then, just because the tanned host doesn't want it anymore, even though he knew it was a very real possibility?

Or how about the colon cancer, brought about from too much nitrites from hot dogs and bacon (big favourites)? Same deal, eh?

I am, of course, being quite facetious here. But I think we need to be very clear about something. Whatever we think we know, (many of us as older adults, which I certainly am, and some that oppose abortion here certainly seem to be), I do not believe we can discount the many ways in which younger people, or people who have been left with a certain ignorance about human sexuality (as is very often the case in the US these days), truly believe "it won't happen." And the same may be said of those who dutifully try following the "rhythm method," which we should all know is not at all foolproof.

We call the lapses by many names: errors, misjudgments, mistakes, lapses, submission to stronger impulses...

I continuously wait for contributors like @dianaiad to make allowances for such eventualities, but they don't seem able to go there.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

???? And what is the prices of eggs in China?.

Because 100% of the anti-abortion people do so because of RELIGION. No other reason.

Even the so-called "atheists" who are anti-abortion, when questioned why? Return to strictly religious non-arguments.

THAT IS WHY.

No... that is WORST Practice
.

Because of a strictly religious argument. SEE ABOVE: FORBIDDEN BY THE CONSTITUTION.

All?? where did you get that info from?
.

Google.

Fake news!!

Indeed-- that describes every single anti-abortion "news" site on the planet.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's not 'fair' that women bear the physical cost of bearing babies, but 'them's the law of nature." What that means is that women, in particular, need to be more responsible for preventing pregnancy. If a man slips up, oh, well.....at least, historically that's been true.

And there it is...the male participant excusing himself. "If a man slips up, ho, well..."

Am I wrong in noting that Muslim men do this too, in insisting that women cover themselves for the simple reason that the males can't control themselves in the presence of a uncovered female coif?

Grow up, boys...and take control over that unruly organ that runs your life!

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't believe in natural rights. Therefore, in my perspective legislation is what allows rights to exist in the first place.

So you have no "natural rights" whatever? If someone wants to kick your family out of your house and live there themselves, you have no "natural right" to deny them? You have no natural right to your own life, if somebody else wants to take it away from you? If someone wishes to enslave you, you have no "natural right" to your own liberty, and must therefore submit?

I'm willing to bet a large sum that you don't know what the flipping heck you just said!

 

[Prestor John]

PRO:
I am pro-choice, not because I encourage women to have abortions, but because I reserve the right to not have abortions.

Legislation takes the right away.

Murder is already illegal though.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Abortion should be denied to someone who is not using contraception on grounds that it violates a fundamental law of Nature, namely procreation for the survival of the species: I would have thought that is consistent with evolutionary biology.

So, the girl getting raped should be denied abortion because she didn't use contraception. Tell us all about how this would play out..."oh, before you rape me, could you please put this bit of latex on..." How well do you think that's going to work.