Pro Homosexual Evidence.

[Panda]

What about scientific research and study to prove that there is a gay gene and that it is normal and not something which develops latter in life?

They have found quite a number of biological differences between heterosexual and homosexual individuals. Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Gharib]

people are born with these sexual tendency

Finally we're onto something. Is there any evidence from scientific studies and research which suggests that?

Right now, all I see is a statement, can I see some evidence too please? I'm not saying that you are wrong or challenging your view, just asking for evidence.

 

[Revoltingest]

What about scientific research and study to prove that there is a gay gene and that it is normal and not something which develops latter in life?

Would the existence of a gene or a group of them have any bearing on the value judgements of being "natural" or "good"?

 

[Panda]

Finally we're onto something. Is there any evidence from scientific studies and research which suggests that?

Right now, all I see is a statement, can I see some evidence too please? I'm not saying that you are wrong or challenging your view, just asking for evidence.

The wikipedia article I posted in #21 has some information on that.

 

[Aquitaine]

I had a good laugh at your statement, but that's for another thread. I don't want to discuss that.

Humans ARE Animals!

 

[mycorrhiza]

It occurs in nature and has been observed in nearly 1500 species - it's natural.
Many people who are homosexual try their best not to be, some even being driven to suicide because they can't feel "normal" according to their religion - it's not a choice.

What I would like you to do is to provide any evidence whatsoever that homosexuality is harmful and that humans aren't animals.


Here's one of the theories about it, but it's a complex subject that we have yet to fully understand.
Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Aquitaine]

Humans please not animals. Or is that evidence in support of why homosexuality in humans is also natural (ie. because animals do it, is that what you are saying)?

The quoted comment above just shows why we're asking you to define what you mean by "Natural". By defination, "Natural" is attributed to something that occurs in Nature, given that Humans are also a part of Nature (because Humans are indeed Animals) it is imperative not to separate between Humans and the rest of the Animal species.

It was obvious from the beginning of this Thread that you were bound to be presented with evidence of Homosexuality occuring in other species of Animals, and yet I knew you'd respond with "No, what's natural for Humans please".

 

[Zoe Doidge]

I have been thinking about this and I decided that I want to hear some of the evidence of those who support homosexuality.

So if you are pro homosexual, please post names, articles and links for me to look at.

I'm not going to debate, I just want sources and evidence in support of homosexuality. If I decide to debate, I will open a new thread and do it there. (Same goes for everyone else, this thread is not for debating, any such posts will be reported, respect the OP please)

Hmm, I guess we could post articles about it being documented in various other species but there are two issues there. The first is I don't think anyone really opposes the idea that it happens in nature anyway, and the second is that there's nothing to say we have to do certain things just because animals do. For example throwing faeces at people is natural, but it’s generally considered bad form all the same. Just because something is natural doesn’t make it right/wrong.

In the same vein we could try to show that some humans are born gay, but nobody has ever been able to prove that one way or the other. And once again if they did, it wouldn’t make any odds. Homosexuals still exist, either way.

Being “pro homosexual” presumably means either being homosexual yourself or at least supporting their rights to have relationships, marriage etc? This is coming up more and more in the UK right now, our government wants to legalise gay marriage by the next general election (so by about 2015). Public opinion polls show that general support has been increasing over time. Again though, it doesn’t matter. It’s either right or it isn’t, and just because most people support something doesn’t make it right/wrong.

The biggest piece of evidence for me is that there simply isn’t a reason to try to ban or suppress homosexuality. That reason is enough that the attempts to do so and the inequalities in society deserve to be fought.

 

[Storm]

Good questions, how about we start with scientific evidence which prove that homosexuality is natural, that people are born gay etc. Anything scientific from prominent scientists who present such evidence.

OK. Here's a couple on the neuro-architectural differences between gays and straights:
Gay Men & Straight Women Have Similar Brains (National Geographic)
What the Gay Brain Looks Like (Time Magazine)
Sadly, I have yet to see an article on the neurological architecture of my own bi brain, but it's a good start.

Getting back to the general request, this is a good primer on human sexual development and orientation from a psychological perspective (APA). It's not specifically pro-queer, but it does explain why minority sexual orientation is no longer considered a disorder in its own right. Here's one more specific to the mental health issues of said minorities (UC Davis Department of Psychology).

Now, to address common anti-queer arguments:
Another from UCD, debunking the myth that gays are more likely to be child molestors.
The Dangers Of Conversion Therapy

And finally to the marriage issue, and why civil unions =/= equality:
A Primer On Same Sex Marriage, Civil Unions, Domestic Partnerships, and Defense of Marriage Acts
Legal & Economic Benefits Of Marriage
Difference Between Civil Union & Marriage



:rainbow1: ...... and that's just what I had bookmarked! :rainbow1:

 

[Gharib]

Hmm, I guess we could post articles about it being documented in various other species but there are two issues there. The first is I don't think anyone really opposes the idea that it happens in nature anyway, and the second is that there's nothing to say we have to do certain things just because animals do. For example throwing faeces at people is natural, but it’s generally considered bad form all the same. Just because something is natural doesn’t make it right/wrong.

In the same vein we could try to show that some humans are born gay, but nobody has ever been able to prove that one way or the other. And once again if they did, it wouldn’t make any odds. Homosexuals still exist, either way.

Being “pro homosexual” presumably means either being homosexual yourself or at least supporting their rights to have relationships, marriage etc? This is coming up more and more in the UK right now, our government wants to legalise gay marriage by the next general election (so by about 2015). Public opinion polls show that general support has been increasing over time. Again though, it doesn’t matter. It’s either right or it isn’t, and just because most people support something doesn’t make it right/wrong.

The biggest piece of evidence for me is that there simply isn’t a reason to try to ban or suppress homosexuality. That reason is enough that the attempts to do so and the inequalities in society deserve to be fought.

Thank you so much Zoe, this is the stuff I am looking for, scientific studies and expert views etc.

I appreciate the help. I hope others post more info which deal with homosexuality in humans like you.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I had a good laugh at your statement, but that's for another thread. I don't want to discuss that.

The fact that you see no connection speak volumes. Humans are animals, specifically mammals. Animals, especially mammals, show homosexual behaviors. Why would homo sapiens, which evolved from other mammals, somehow lose that tendency to be homosexual?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

For me, its the fact that it has always existed as a human condition.

History of homosexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If there have always been homosexuals among humans then its a natural occurrence. If it wasn't natural then it would have been localized to a specific group, region or time period. To me, the historical evidence points towards homosexuality being natural and homophobic reactions being societal and cultural conditioning.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Pro-homosexuality?

No, how about pro-love between consensual adults.

 

[Storm]

I prefer pro-equality/ anti-bigotry, myself!

:candle: :rainbow1: :candle:

 

[Aquitaine]

i prefer pro-equality/ anti-bigotry, myself!

:candle:

:rainbow1: :candle:

lol!
tru dat!

 

[Revoltingest]

Hmmmm.....I've no studies to back this up, but I notice an interesting comparison between homosexuality & any specific religion.
- The former occurs without being taught, ie, the person discovers this orientation.
- The latter does not arise naturally, but rather is a construct which must be taught.

Not judging here....tis fine with me to be hetero, homo, religious or godless.

 

[Aquitaine]

Hmmmm.....I've no studies to back this up, but I notice an interesting comparison between homosexuality & any specific religion.
- The former occurs without being taught, ie, the person discovers this orientation.
- The latter does not arise naturally, but rather is a construct which must be taught.

Not judging here....tis fine with me to be hetero, homo, religious or godless.

Good observation, Willy. That's very interesting indeed: as Homosexuality isn't taught and is Natural, yet Religion is taught and Artificial in it's very core.

Perhaps we should all be saying: "Religion is a choice, not Homosexuality!"?

^_^

 

[Revoltingest]

Good observation, Willy. That's very interesting indeed: as Homosexuality isn't taught and is Natural, yet Religion is taught and Artificial in it's very core.
Perhaps we should all be saying: "Religion is a choice, not Homosexuality!"?

I don't know that even religion is entirely chosen. I observe (with my limited & biased abilities) that many of the faithful have a very entrenched
way of interpreting the world...one very different from my entrenched way. Perhaps we're born with these orientations, eh? Or perhaps our brains
& way of thinking develop this way (depending upon family, school & culture) to create a hardwired approach. But if one has a hardwired predisposition
to faith, tis only the specific faith adopted which is unnatural.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

There is this thread, for starters:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/one-one-debates/93924-does-homosexuality-occur-animals.html

Also here is a scientific review of many previous studies, which compares the objective measurement of sexual arousal vs. self-reporting of sexual arousal in men, women, heterosexuals and homosexuals, etc.:
Agreement of Self-Reported and Genital Measures of Sexual Arousal in Men and Women: A Meta-Analysis

In particular:

More recently, we have found that both heterosexual and homosexual men, and homosexual women but not heterosexual women, showed genital responses to film depictions of their preferred sex engaged in nude, nonsexual activities, such as walking on the beach (Chivers, Seto, & Blanchard, 2007).

What the above findings demonstrate is that, to begin with, homosexuality is objectively and measurably "real". That is, some people experience involuntary sexual arousal in response to provocative images of the same gender, in the same way that a heterosexual man experiences involuntary sexual attraction towards provocative images of women.

Additionally, from the study:

Regarding discriminative validity, penile responses can distinguish heterosexual and homosexual men ...
...
... VPA assessed during sexual response can differentiate heterosexual from homosexual women when stimuli depicting solitary males and females are used (Chivers et al., 2007).
...
With respect to sexual orientation, heterosexual women show substantial genital responses to both male and female sexual stimuli, whereas heterosexual men show greater genital responses to female stimuli and homosexual men show greater genital responses to male stimuli (Chivers et al., 2004, 2007; Chivers & Bailey, 2005; Peterson, Janssen, & Laan, in press; Suschinsky et al., 2009).

 

[Aquitaine]

I don't know that even religion is entirely chosen. I observe (with my limited & biased abilities) that many of the faithful have a very entrenched
way of interpreting the world...one very different from my entrenched way. Perhaps we're born with these orientations, eh? Or perhaps our brains
& way of thinking develop this way (depending upon family, school & culture) to create a hardwired approach. But if one has a hardwired predisposition
to faith, tis only the specific faith adopted which is unnatural.

tru dat