Pro-lifers need Psychiatric help?

[Spiderman]

I remember when I first converted to catholicism, I was doing some political work, to try to gather signatures for the ballot, so that people can vote "life begins at conception".

A biker man approached me and the guy that I was working with, and he looked really happy to see us and be talking to us, eager to see what we were promoting. Then he read what we were trying to get signatures for, and this dark cloud descended on his face , and his facial expression became ridiculous and bizzare!

You should have seen his face! It was hilarious! And he said to us with disgust, "you guys need psychiatric help!"

What is your opinion, do people who believe life begins at conception , need psychiatric help?

The only reason this is in the religious debate section, is because the belief that life begins at conception, is a religious belief, in it's essence and intrinsic nature.

I couldn't fathom how you could be an atheist who believes that life begins at conception.

 

[Spiderman]

Obviously some pro-lifers need Psychiatric help, but does the belief that life begins at conception seem to you like it's a delusion or mental illness?

Does trying to get signatures to have such a thing on the ballot, even further strike you as being psychologically disordered?

 

[Ella S.]

This seems strange to me. I was not aware that there was any debate about whether life begins at conception or not. Eggs are living, sperm is living, fetuses are living. They are all technically alive. My life, strictly speaking, began at conception.

Despite this, I am still Pro-Choice. I think the morality of abortion doesn't really have anything to do with when life starts, in my opinion, but it is more a question about legal personhood. You already have less rights in my country (America) if you are a minor, on a danger-to-others list, on suicide watch, a prisoner, or an immigrant. The question is about what rights should be given to unborn children, not about whether they are or are not unborn children.

Then again, I don't really engage in a lot of political debate, so maybe I'm really shooting myself in the foot here?

 

[Spiderman]

This seems strange to me. I was not aware that there was any debate about whether life begins at conception or not. Eggs are living, sperm is living, fetuses are living. They are all technically alive. My life, strictly speaking, began at conception.

Despite this, I am still Pro-Choice. I think the morality of abortion doesn't really have anything to do with when life starts, in my opinion, but it is more a question about legal personhood. You already have less rights in my country (America) if you are a minor, on a danger-to-others list, on suicide watch, a prisoner, or an immigrant. The question is about what rights should be given to unborn children, not about whether they are or are not unborn children.

Then again, I don't really engage in a lot of political debate, so maybe I'm really shooting myself in the foot here?

By life begins at conception, it would imply and mean, ( in this context, ) killing "it", is one human killing another.

Is that a sick belief to you?

 

[Ella S.]

By life begins at conception, it would imply and mean, ( in this context, ) killing "it", is one human killing another.

Is that a sick belief to you?

What do you mean by a "sick belief?"

I do not think that it requires mental illness to commit homicide, no. Throughout human history, we have normalized a wide for variety of ways of killing each other. Even outside of war, we've had infanticide, capital punishment, and genocide practiced by completely sane and healthy-minded people.

That doesn't mean that I support doing any of those things, but I think it shows how normal the human capacity for cruelty is. This also has virtually nothing to do with the Pro-Life or Pro-Choice argument to me.

Do you support the use of lethal force in self-defense?

 

[Spiderman]

What do you mean by a "sick belief?"

I do not think that it requires mental illness to commit homicide, no. Throughout human history, we have normalized a wide for variety of ways of killing each other. Even outside of war, we've had infanticide, capital punishment, and genocide practiced by completely sane and healthy-minded people.

That doesn't mean that I support doing any of those things, but I think it shows how normal the human capacity for cruelty is. This also has virtually nothing to do with the Pro-Life or Pro-Choice argument to me.

Do you support the use of lethal force in self-defense?

Sure, lethal force in self defense sounds okay to me.

I'm saying, "is it a human being at conception"?. Well, do people who believe we are human at conception strike you as being ill psychologically?

 

[Ella S.]

Sure, lethal force in self defense sounds okay to me.

I'm saying, "is it a human being at conception"?. Well, do people who believe we are human at conception strike you as being ill psychologically?

No, not really. I think that's mostly a semantic issue, not a mental health one.

 

[SomeRandom]

I remember when I first converted to catholicism, I was doing some political work, to try to gather signatures for the ballot, so that people can vote "life begins at conception".

A biker man approached me and the guy that I was working with, and he looked really happy to see us and be talking to us, eager to see what we were promoting. Then he read what we were trying to get signatures for, and this dark cloud descended on his face , and his facial expression became ridiculous and bizzare!

You should have seen his face! It was hilarious! And he said to us with disgust, "you guys need psychiatric help!"

What is your opinion, do people who believe life begins at conception , need psychiatric help?

The only reason this is in the religious debate section, is because the belief that life begins at conception, is a religious belief, in it's essence and intrinsic nature.

I couldn't fathom how you could be an atheist who believes that life begins at conception.

I wouldn’t say phsychologically ill. Though I’ve had the same accusation levied against me for being pro choice. Ironically I am this way because of my religious upbringing. Whether or not life begins at conception doesn’t concern me. You can’t be forced to give a drop of blood to a real life person on their death bed. Why would you force a pregnant person to involuntarily allow another human to use their uterus?
I see the pro life movement as callous and cruel. But that’s just based on their rhetoric which is highly oversimplified, emotional and filled with inaccurate medical information. If you can’t argue your position in a logically consistent manner and even have to lie, well I’m sorry but you’ve lost in my eyes

Also there are pro life atheists, just fyi

 

[loverofhumanity]

I remember when I first converted to catholicism, I was doing some political work, to try to gather signatures for the ballot, so that people can vote "life begins at conception".

A biker man approached me and the guy that I was working with, and he looked really happy to see us and be talking to us, eager to see what we were promoting. Then he read what we were trying to get signatures for, and this dark cloud descended on his face , and his facial expression became ridiculous and bizzare!

You should have seen his face! It was hilarious! And he said to us with disgust, "you guys need psychiatric help!"

What is your opinion, do people who believe life begins at conception , need psychiatric help?

The only reason this is in the religious debate section, is because the belief that life begins at conception, is a religious belief, in it's essence and intrinsic nature.

I couldn't fathom how you could be an atheist who believes that life begins at conception.

You are correct.

 

[loverofhumanity]

By life begins at conception, it would imply and mean, ( in this context, ) killing "it", is one human killing another.

Is that a sick belief to you?

No. You are mentally very sound. To abort is murder unless it endangers the mothers life. But to just abort because one does not want the child is murder in my religion and absolutely forbidden.

But if the choice is that only one can live then it’s up to the mother to decide.

 

[ChristineM]

No. You are mentally very sound. To abort is murder unless it endangers the mothers life. But to just abort because one does not want the child is murder in my religion and absolutely forbidden.

But if the choice is that only one can live then it’s up to the mother to decide.

No, it is not murder. Murder is a legal term. In law (in most civilized countries at least) abortion is not murder.

 

[ChristineM]

What is your opinion, do people who believe life begins at conception , need psychiatric help?

Some do, those who murder doctors, blow up clinics and harassed women who are already at a very emotional stage in their lives.

There are also those who lie about legality, i would not say they need pshyciatic help but they could do with learning about the law they argue against

 

[SomeRandom]

No. You are mentally very sound. To abort is murder unless it endangers the mothers life. But to just abort because one does not want the child is murder in my religion and absolutely forbidden.

But if the choice is that only one can live then it’s up to the mother to decide.

No abortion by definition is not murder. Killing maybe. But the US still has the death penalty in play so it’s not like it can say anything about killing, without being beyond hypocritical. Most civilised countries did away with such barbaric practices years ago. Just FYI

 

[loverofhumanity]

No abortion by definition is not murder. Killing maybe. But the US still has the death penalty in play so it’s not like it can say anything about killing, without being beyond hypocritical. Most civilised countries did away with such barbaric practices years ago. Just FYI

Although the Baha’i laws are against rape just to prevent an unwanted pregnancy they are flexible enough to allow for exceptional circumstances. That’s the beauty of this religion. In grey areas there’s a lot of room to move.

The practice of abortion - which is absolutely criminal as it involves deliberate destruction of human life - is forbidden in the Cause. Shoghi Effendi.

Abortion merely to prevent the birth of an unwanted child is strictly forbidden in the Cause. There may, however, be instances in which an abortion would be justified by medical reasons, and legislation on this matter has been left to the Universal House of Justice. At the present time, however, the House of Justice does not intend to legislate on this very delicate issue, and therefore it is left to the consciences of those concerned who must carefully weigh the medical advice in the light of the general guidance given in the teachings."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of Ireland, March 16, 1983, in Lights of Guidance, no. 1154)
After a rape[edit]
Regarding a believer who is the victim of rape, whether to continue (or terminate) the pregnancy is left to the woman to decide (taking into account medical, other factors, and the Baha'i Teachings)
"One of the most heinous of sexual offenses is the crime of rape. When a believer is a victim, she is entitled to the loving aid and support of the members of her community, and is free to initiate action against the perpetrator under the law of the land should she wish to do so. If she becomes pregnant as a consequence of this assault, no pressure should be brought upon her by the Bahá'í institutions to marry. As to whether she should continue or terminate the pregnancy, it is left to her to decide on the course of action she should follow, taking into consideration medical and other relevant factors, and in the light of the Bahá'í Teachings ..."

(Universal House of Justice, quoted in The American Bahá'í, November 23, 1993, pp. 10-11, taken from Bahá'í Ethics )

 

[Father Heathen]

By life begins at conception, it would imply and mean, ( in this context, ) killing "it", is one human killing another.

Is that a sick belief to you?

Batter is not a cake until it's baked.

 

[ChristineM]

By life begins at conception, it would imply and mean, ( in this context, ) killing "it", is one human killing another.

Is that a sick belief to you?

Legally it is killing a fetus, not a human person, which is not bestowed on the fetus until birth

Edit: my error corrected

 

[Ella S.]

Legally it is killing a fetus, not a human, which is not bestowed on the fetus until birth

Is there a distinction here between humanity and personhood?

I mean, uh, I already know, I'm just seeing if you do. [Lie 15/40: Failed]

 

[ChristineM]

Is there a distinction here between humanity and personhood?

I mean, uh, I already know, I'm just seeing if you do. [Lie 15/40: Failed]

I believe it depends on your jurisdiction. But generally personhood relates to sentience. humanity to people.

 

[Spiderman]

I wouldn’t say phsychologically ill. Though I’ve had the same accusation levied against me for being pro choice. Ironically I am this way because of my religious upbringing. Whether or not life begins at conception doesn’t concern me. You can’t be forced to give a drop of blood to a real life person on their death bed. Why would you force a pregnant person to involuntarily allow another human to use their uterus?
I see the pro life movement as callous and cruel. But that’s just based on their rhetoric which is highly oversimplified, emotional and filled with inaccurate medical information. If you can’t argue your position in a logically consistent manner and even have to lie, well I’m sorry but you’ve lost in my eyes

Also there are pro life atheists, just fyi

I did NOT say there were not pro life atheists!

Also, I think abortion can be a merciful act that spares the mother, the child, and society, much misery. Anyone who denies that to sometimes be true, denies the obvious.

Ted Bundy had no Father ever there for him, and mother abandoned him at the Lund's home for months. His mother should have aborted him! END OF STORY! So, am I pro life?

But abortion has prevented some good contributors to society from ever living. Can you deny that?

I have met women who for a lifetime regret their abortion too. All things to consider. It is complicated!

 

[stvdv]

What is your opinion, do people who believe life begins at conception , need psychiatric help?

Fact: Soul does not enter at conception, but much later
Fact: Animal life also begins at conception

So, if pro-lifers are genuinely concerned about life, then:
1) They better watch their steps as to not kill bugs
2) They should not wear leather shoes, jackets...
3) They must become vegan, to avoid hypocrisy
4) They should not take mebendazol medicines
5) etc. etc.

IF they do the above THEN they maybe have the right to tell others about it