Pro-lifers need Psychiatric help?

[Heyo]

What is your opinion, do people who believe life begins at conception , need psychiatric help?

I have changed my mind. Since I have been convinced that my initial answer was inappropriate, I now think that pro-lifers do need psychiatric help.
Wanna discuss this openly?

 

[Spiderman]

I have changed my mind. Since I have been convinced that my initial answer was inappropriate, I now think that pro-lifers do need psychiatric help.
Wanna discuss this openly?

Yes, please share.

 

[Heyo]

Yes, please share.

My initial idea was that those people, and in extension you, were of sound mind and responsible at that moment. That might have been a hasty assumption. At least responsibility was lacking as you must have obviously been mightily misinformed. Sound mind is questionable as you were not able to question the misinformation. I think you have been brainwashed and you were not responsible for your actions.

 

[Spiderman]

My initial idea was that those people, and in extension you, were of sound mind and responsible at that moment. That might have been a hasty assumption. At least responsibility was lacking as you must have obviously been mightily misinformed. Sound mind is questionable as you were not able to question the misinformation. I think you have been brainwashed and you were not responsible for your actions.

My views have changed a lot since then.

 

[Heyo]

My views have changed a lot since then.

I know.
But at the time you thought it was a good idea to legislate a biological fact, that it would be a good idea to petition the government to do so, that that fact had any influence on the debate of legal abortion or that people who were for legal abortions denied the fact. In other words you were not fully aware of reality.

 

[SomeRandom]

So you don't believe in the death penalty? I actually did not know most countries civilized did away with the death penalty though.

Umm no I do not. That pro lifers do is an inherent contradiction, don’t you think?

 

[SomeRandom]

I did NOT say there were not pro life atheists!

Also, I think abortion can be a merciful act that spares the mother, the child, and society, much misery. Anyone who denies that to sometimes be true, denies the obvious.

Ted Bundy had no Father ever there for him, and mother abandoned him at the Lund's home for months. His mother should have aborted him! END OF STORY! So, am I pro life?

But abortion has prevented some good contributors to society from ever living. Can you deny that?

I have met women who for a lifetime regret their abortion too. All things to consider. It is complicated!

Yes I can deny that. Because it’s pure speculation whether or not said potential people would have contributed great things to society.
As to women feeling regret, umm yeah women are routinely shamed by society for even contemplating abortion. That’s not a point in favour of the pro life argument, imo
But yes it is a very complicated topic

 

[Spiderman]

Umm no I do not. That pro lifers do is an inherent contradiction, don’t you think?

Well, if I was guilty of a crime where I murdered somebody, and I was going to spend the rest of my life incarcerated, and cost a whole bunch of taxpayers dollars, and suffer a great deal, I would rather have a quick comfortable, lethal injection.

So in that sense, how can I really be extremely against the death penalty?

Also, I'm not saying that abortion should be illegal, and I've never suggested any such thing.

Growing up in ghettos, mental institutions, and correctional facilities, I have met all kinds of people, who were unwanted pregnancies, or did not have parents setting good examples, and they simply would have been better off aborted, and it would have been a lot better for society!

I have told my mother that she should have aborted me! My mother was in medical school to be a doctor when she got pregnant with me, and people told her to get an abortion.

So I do not have a pro-life agenda here.

 

[Spiderman]

Umm no I do not. That pro lifers do is an inherent contradiction, don’t you think?

It is a contradiction, but to play devil's advocate here, a person who murders somebody is guilty of a very serious crime. There should absolutely be a punishment for such a crime, and sometimes a lethal injection, could be the most humane and kind way to punish someone, not cost an enormous amount of taxpayers dollars, and not condemn the criminal to a lifetime of misery behind bars!

An innocent, sinless, defenseless baby in the womb, who hasn't hurt anybody, is NOT a criminal!

 

[SomeRandom]

Well, if I was guilty of a crime where I murdered somebody, and I was going to spend the rest of my life incarcerated, and cost a whole bunch of taxpayers dollars, and suffer a great deal, I would rather have a quick comfortable, lethal injection.

So in that sense, how can I really be extremely against the death penalty?

Also, I'm not saying that abortion should be illegal, and I've never suggested any such thing?

Growing up in ghettos, mental institutions, and correctional facilities, I have met all kinds of people, who were unwanted pregnancies, or did not have parents setting good examples, and they simply would have been better off aborted, and it would have been a lot better for society!

I have told my mother that she should have aborted me! My mother was in medical school to be a doctor when she got pregnant with me, and people told her to get an abortion.

So I do not have a pro-life agenda here.

Ironically it costs the tax payers much more money to execute a person than keep them locked up, due to all the legal appeals and back and forth through the court system. It might take years to even get a person into the chair, as it were. So not only is the death penalty barbaric practice (since most civilised countries did away with it decades ago) it’s actually more expensive and time consuming. Rehabilitation should be focused upon. And if someone is past that, then keep them locked up away from society for the greater good, as it were.
Although I could understand family of the victims wanting to see the perp dead. That’s a very human response.

I don’t think you have a pro life agenda. I think you are trying to understand a complex human topic. That’s fine

 

[SomeRandom]

It is a contradiction, but to play devil's advocate here, a person who murders somebody is guilty of a very serious crime. There should absolutely be a punishment for such a crime, and sometimes a lethal injection, could be the most humane and kind way to punish someone, not cost an enormous amount of taxpayers dollars, and not condemn the criminal to a lifetime of misery behind bars!

An innocent, sinless, defenseless child in the womb, who hasn't hurt anybody, is NOT a criminal!

Costs more to execute a person. It’s not at all a quick process
And killing someone is not humane, unless they are suffering needlessly
How can they be helped or rehabilitated if you just kill them? No it’s a simplistic way to deal with a problem
And you could get the wrong perp, people have been proven innocent after spending years behind bars. If you kill them how can you undo that if new evidence proves them innocent? At least releasing a person from prison is the better outcome in such a scenario

 

[Spiderman]

Umm no I do not. That pro lifers do is an inherent contradiction, don’t you think?

It is a contradiction, but Ted Bundy escaped from prison twice, and then he went to Florida and he proceeded to murder multiple women, as well as bludgeon and sexually assault others who survived, leaving them with permanent PTSD and brain injuries, and a lifetime of sorrow for their family and friends!

If we allow people to have a lifetime behind bars, it increases the likelihood of them escaping and hurting other people. Ted Bundy escape from prison twice as I said, and the second time he tunneled through the ceiling, got a new pair of clothes, stole a car, and traveled to a different state.

Some people are ingenious at doing such things. The death penalty can prevent that from happening! The death penalty can also make the relatives of the victims feel more like justice has been served!

So, the death penalty, can actually be better for society, then a full lifespan behind bars, which is extremely costly, and the criminal can actually escape, and hurt more people!

 

[Spiderman]

Costs more to execute a person. It’s not at all a quick process
And killing someone is not humane, unless they are suffering needlessly
How can they be helped or rehabilitated if you just kill them? No it’s a simplistic way to deal with a problem
And you could get the wrong perp, people have been proven innocent after spending years behind bars. If you kill them how can you undo that if new evidence proves them innocent? At least releasing a person from prison is the better outcome in such a scenario

I don't know, I will have to investigate, because on court TV, it was said that it cost more money to keep them locked up

 

[Spiderman]

Costs more to execute a person. It’s not at all a quick process
And killing someone is not humane, unless they are suffering needlessly
How can they be helped or rehabilitated if you just kill them? No it’s a simplistic way to deal with a problem
And you could get the wrong perp, people have been proven innocent after spending years behind bars. If you kill them how can you undo that if new evidence proves them innocent? At least releasing a person from prison is the better outcome in such a scenario

Yes, it is true that you can on an extremely rare occasion, save a life, and realize the person's innocent, by not executing them, I cannot argue with you there

 

[SomeRandom]

I don't know, I will have to investigate, because on court TV, it was said that it cost more money to keep them locked up

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/which-is-cheaper-execution-or-life-in-prison-without-parole-31614

 

[Heyo]

An innocent, sinless, defenseless child in the womb, who hasn't hurt anybody, is NOT a criminal!

Some of the misinformation still seems to linger ...
There are no children in wombs, they are called zygote, embryo or foetus, depending on development phase. Calling them "children" is part of the appeal to emotion by the so-called "pro-lifers".

 

[Spiderman]

Some of the misinformation still seems to linger ...
There are no children in wombs, they are called zygote, embryo or foetus, depending on development phase. Calling them "children" is part of the appeal to emotion by the so-called "pro-lifers".

I believe I was a baby in my mother's womb. If my mother had aborted me, I wouldn't be here obviously, and I have seen what a baby sometimes looks like after an abortion, and you can see the face, the open eyes, the nose, the mouth, the body, and it looks like a human being to me, depending on the abortion.

So thank you for the correction, I should not have used the word child, but I would not be giving false information, if I would have said baby.

I firmly believed I was an unborn baby at one time. Yes, I could have been killed in my mother's womb. I wouldn't be here. That is a fact!

And my mother was under a lot of stress and in medical school when she got pregnant with me. She was actually told to get an abortion! That absolutely would have been me dying! But I'm not saying that would have been such a bad thing either!

 

[stvdv]

It seems you missed my point entirely.

I understand your point very well, because I used the same argument 30 years ago, before Sai Baba corrected me. Sai Baba does not let serious students get away with such things. Speaking truth is paramount. I can fool myself, but never I can fool Sai Baba

It seems you missed my point entirely

Simple example:
1) If all in the shelter say "I only eat vegan". Then they will stop serving non-vegan. Industry (business) of killing animals will reduce.

2) The wise declare "you cannot change the world, but you can change yourself". You still think in the way that the world needs to change, and not yourself. That's why you don't understand me. I only need to change myself

3) Loverboys are known to force sex on young girls, if done a lot they are "emotional dead", and then the girls are ready to earn money for them. Would you have sex with such a girl if the loverboy offers it? She is emotional dead. I would not, because if I do, I keep the sex industry alive. You might argue "those loverboys killed her emotionally already, so if I don't have sex others will, why should I not partake?", like you argue with the killed animals, but doing so you keep the industry alive.

 

[Spiderman]

I understand your point very well, because I used the same argument 30 years ago, before Sai Baba corrected me. Sai Baba does not let serious students get away with such things. Speaking truth is paramount. I can fool myself, but never I can fool Sai Baba

It seems you missed my point entirely

Simple example:
1) If all in the shelter say "I only eat vegan". Then they will stop serving non-vegan. Industry (business) of killing animals will reduce.

2) The wise declare "you cannot change the world, but you can change yourself". You still think in the way that the world needs to change, and not yourself. That's why you don't understand me. I only need to change myself

3) Loverboys are known to force sex on young girls, if done a lot they are "emotional dead", and then the girls are ready to earn money for them. Would you have sex with such a girl if the loverboy offers it? She is emotional dead. I would not, because if I do, I keep the sex industry alive. You might argue "those loverboys killed her emotionally already, so if I don't have sex others will, why should I not partake?", like you argue with the killed animals, but doing so you keep the industry alive.

Having that kind of unhealthy sex is toxic and not good.

Being malnourished and without protein is very unhealthy.

I have Been in Many Facilities, Where if you go malnourished, it is not helpful, the meat is already paid for, I don't save a life by it going in the trash, no vegetarian alternative is offered, nothing positive is accomplished by throwing the paid for food in the trash, and I hurt myself , because when I go malnourished I have had outbursts of rage and mental emotional illness!

It makes absolutely no sense to hurt your self and not save an animal in the process.

Also, comparing eating nutritious food to harming some one with toxic, unhealthy sex, is a terrible comparison.

I'm all for doing away with slaughter houses and no eating meat. But I don't get to make a difference by damaging myself mentally, emotionally, and physically, and then save no animal life in the process.

It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Mister Emu]

The only reason this is in the religious debate section, is because the belief that life begins at conception, is a religious belief, in it's essence and intrinsic nature.

It seems to me quite the opposite, it is entirely a question of science as to when a new human life arises. Which is easily answered at conception with the formation of its DNA. Anything else follows platitudes or quasi-mystical mumbo-jumbo like 'personhood'.