Pro-Palestinian Peaceful Protests

[Estro Felino]

Of course they do. Germans wanted peace in WW2,
Russians want peace now....all violent aggressors
want peace, but not by behaving peacefully...rather
by conquering their prey.
This shallow defense of Israel's genocide disgusts me.
(And I am not easily disgusted. I like haggis.)

Libya was a beautiful country before fundamentalism destroyed it all, just because it had become too westernized.
And there has been a genocide in Libya too, for the record.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Israel has a history of repression and disproportionate retaliation toward Gaza's history of ineffectual, symbolic strike-backs. It's a vicious cycle that makes both sides look bad.

Is that how you labeled 9/11? Characterizing such things as the intifada and the pogrom as "symbolic strike-backs" is little more that grotesque, if thoughtless, whitewashing in the service of terrorism.

 

[Revoltingest]

Libya was a beautiful country before fundamentalism destroyed it all, just because it had become too westernized.

Do you believe that westernization
causes fundamentalism & destruction?

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you believe that westernization
causes fundamentalism & destruction?

Immensely.
Because religious fundamentalists incredibly despise the West. They think that our European countries are brothels, places of immorality, where women can show their breasts and legs on national TV, and on the street.
So they need to destroy any slightest chance of modernization and westernization, that is all about the relationship between man and woman.

 

[Revoltingest]

Immensely.
Because religious fundamentalists incredibly despise the West. They think that our European countries are brothels, places of immorality, where women can show their breasts and legs on national TV, and on the street.
So they need to destroy any slightest chance of modernization and westernization, that is all about the relationship between man and woman.

Do you believe that Iranians are better off under
an Islamic theocracy than they were under the Shah?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Of course they do. Germans wanted peace in WW2,
Russians want peace now....all violent aggressors
want peace, but not by behaving peacefully...rather
by conquering their prey.

It's like that famous quote.

"If you want peace, you must prepare for war. And then, like, start wars by recklessly invading your neighbours all the time and do war crimes and stuff too, I guess."

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you believe that Iranians are better off under
an Islamic theocracy than they were under the Shah?

Religious fundamentalism is always wrong.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's like that famous quote.

"If you want peace, you must prepare for war.

I believe that.
This felonious draft dodging non-aggressionist
worked in the military aircraft industry designing
instruments of war. I don't always approve of
how they're used, but my work was righteous.

 

[metis]

The problem is religious fundamentalism.

Bingo!

It makes little difference if Israel was a Christian, Buddhist, or Hindu, ..., nation instead of a Jewish one because it is Iran that is the instigator as they take a literalistic view of the Hadith's mandate that once an area is Islamic, it must always remain Islamic. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. are proxies of Iran.

Secondly, to some here [not you], where were these peace-loving Palestinians on 10-7? Did they protest against Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza? Not only didn't they, but they celebrated the attack on Israel civilians who were kidnapped, raped, held as hostages, etc. And yet here at RF, some here immediate attacked Israelis, which was the victim! I do believe there's a name for that.

Finally, this is why it's pretty much impossible to have a fair discussion here as all too many simply don't and won't look at this fairly and with compassion towards ALL victims.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

What happened?

On at least one Univ. (where my niece is a student), they were in day 3 of sitting about, chatting, studying, cooking, etc... out on the lawns of the U. when the city PD, under the authority of the University President, claiming there was "too much danger of violence" rode in and started to pin the students to the ground, cuff them, and haul them away.
This seems to be the M.O. on most of the campuses where crackdowns have occurred. Peaceful protests, with occasional singing and chanting about the horrible slaughter of innocent civilians by US-armed Israeli military (with our own contracts with Israel saying that they cannot have our weapons if they start to use them in war crimes - which this absolutely and undeniably is)..... leading to police beating down on the student protesters. The Univ. President had never come to see or speak with the protesters before sending the city PD against them. Sad/pathetic.
Same M.O. as anti-Vietnam War protests in the 60s.

Secondly, to some here [not you], where were these peace-loving Palestinians on 10-7?

Likely, going about their lives, getting their kids lunches ready and sending the little ones off to school. Not caring or knowing in the slightest what their "government" was planning or doing. Just like you and I.

Finally, this is why it's pretty much impossible to have a fair discussion here as all too many simply don't and won't look at this fairly and with compassion towards ALL victims.

Agreed. What the few thousand Hamas militants did to Israel on Oct. 7th was unforgivable and undeniably defined as war crimes. And now Israel is indiscriminately killing many more thousands of civilian Palestinians in the poverty stricken city of Gaza. Mind you, when Israeli forces encountered Hamas fighters on October 7th and 8th, they rolled over them with ease; killing as many fighters as Israeli civilians had been murdered on the morning of Oct. 7th. Good riddance!

But after that, it has been a complete slaughter. Now over 35,000 dead, most of whom are women and children, and even among the adult males killed, the Hamas are still a minority of the dead.

 

[Revoltingest]

Religious fundamentalism is always wrong.

Not Revoltifarianism or Bokononism.

 

[Revoltingest]

Bingo!

It makes little difference if Israel was a Christian, Buddhist, or Hindu, ..., nation instead of a Jewish one because it is Iran that is the instigator as they take a literalistic view of the Hadith's mandate that once an area is Islamic, it must always remain Islamic. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. are proxies of Iran.

Secondly, to some here [not you], where were these peace-loving Palestinians on 10-7? Did they protest against Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza? Not only didn't they, but they celebrated the attack on Israel civilians who were kidnapped, raped, held as hostages, etc. And yet here at RF, some here immediate attacked Israelis, which was the victim! I do believe there's a name for that.

Finally, this is why it's pretty much impossible to have a fair discussion here as all too many simply don't and won't look at this fairly and with compassion towards ALL victims.

Always blaming the Muslims you are.
No culpability or responsibility for Jews, despite
their committing the Nakba, many decades of
hideous human rights violations, apartheid, &
now genocide....it's all the fault of Muslims.
This blindness is the reason Israel is its own
worst enemy....& the cause of woe to millions.

 

[metis]

And now Israel is indiscriminately killing many more thousands of civilian Palestinians in the poverty stricken city of Gaza.

No, it is not "indiscriminate".

Mind you, when Israeli forces encountered Hamas fighters on October 7th and 8th, they rolled over them with ease; killing as many fighters as Israeli civilians had been murdered on the morning of Oct. 7th.

Hamas embeds itself with the civilian population, thus you should more be upset with them than with the IDF.

But after that, it has been a complete slaughter. Now over 35,000 dead, most of whom are women and children, and even among the adult males killed, the Hamas are still a minority of the dead.

Yes, I agree 100% that this is terrible, but you are putting the blame on the wrong elements, which should be mainly on Iran and on their proxy, Hamas. If Hamas truly was concerned about their own people, then they could surrender and release all hostages-- but they ain't. If Iran wanted peace, they would stop arming Hamas, Hezbollah, Islami Jihad, etc. But with them, this is actually a "holy war" whereas they are more than willing to watch the civilian population there and elsewhere to die. It's hard for many in the west to understand this as "holy war" for most of the world are a thing of the past, but not so in the Middle East, especially with the Shi'a.

Finally, if Hamas is not defeated, this will just happen over and over again and again and... This is not some sort of game-- this is a country fighting for its own survival.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

No, it is not "indiscriminate".

There is no such thing as precision, when referring to bombs and missiles.
If a robber takes a hostages in a bank, then a sniper shot through his brainstem is precision. Throwing a grenade into the bank is indiscriminate.

Hamas embeds itself with the civilian population, thus you should more be upset with them than with the IDF.

Make no mistake. Hamas is subhuman scum, and all of it's members should be put to death. No argument from me.
But this scum is using human shields, like the bank robber above. Don't bomb the hospital, send in troops to secure the exits, excuse yourselves as you pass the doctors, nurses, and wounded, making your way to the tunnels. Kill everyone down there. Remove your troops.

Costlier, slower, but I will happily vote for the US congress members who fund you. And I won't join campus protesters, who want US businesses (and the gov't) to stop funding you.

Finally, if Hamas is not defeated, this will just happen over and over again and again and... This is not some sort of game-- this is a country fighting for its own survival.

Yes. But you should try to remember that Israel is a country trying to fight for it's own survival too.

Whoops! I got that backwards. Right?

 

[metis]

There is no such thing as precision, when referring to bombs and missiles.
If a robber takes a hostages in a bank, then a sniper shot through his brainstem is precision. Throwing a grenade into the bank is indiscriminate.


Make no mistake. Hamas is subhuman scum, and all of it's members should be put to death. No argument from me.
But this scum is using human shields, like the bank robber above. Don't bomb the hospital, send in troops to secure the exits, excuse yourselves as you pass the doctors, nurses, and wounded, making your way to the tunnels. Kill everyone down there. Remove your troops.

Costlier, slower, but I will happily vote for the US congress members who fund you. And I won't join campus protesters, who want US businesses (and the gov't) to stop funding you.

Yes. But you should try to remember that Israel is a country trying to fight for it's own survival too.

Whoops! I got that backwards. Right?

What's missing with the above is doesn't Hamas and the vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza have any responsibility? If Hamas stops and surrenders, the violence and killing stops? If not, then Israel in reality has no choice but to eliminate them.

In reality, there is no other viable solution.

 

[esmith]

Wonder what those that are "disturbed" by the deaths in Gaza would have to say about civilian casualities in previous wars.
Let's look back
WWI 7million casualities on both sides with 10 million non-combantants.
WWII 70million casualities with a ratio somewhere between 3:2 and 2:1 or somewhere between 60% to 67%; of course this includes those that were deliberately killed by the Axix Powers
Korean War 2.7 million The civilian-combatant death ratio in the war is approximately 3:1 or 75%. One source estimates that 20% of the total population of North Korea perished in the war.
Vietnam War Cilivian casualties were approximatley 2:1 or 67%. This does not include Cambodia and Laos.
above figures from: Civilian Casualties

In other words War is Hell

 

[metis]

As of October 7, 2023 the Gaza area contained approximately 35,000 Hamas members, out of a total population in Gaza of roughly 2 million. Muslims make up roughly 1billion human beings on this planet.

Hamas was the duly elected government for Gaza in 2005, and that's a fact, Jack. Elections have consequences.

Secondly, to call Gaza a "tightly controlled prison camp" is terribly misguided, so there's nowhere else to go with such nonsense as you certainly do not know much about that region.

Thirdly, I'm done.

 

[libre]

If Hamas stops and surrenders, the violence and killing stops? If not, then Israel in reality has no choice but to eliminate them.

In reality, there is no other viable solution.

When in history do you hold that this sort of counter-terrorism was effective?
Demanding total surrender or defeat as the only solutions do not appear viable to me.

 

[metis]

When in history do you hold that this sort of counter-terrorism was effective?
Demanding total surrender or defeat as the only solutions do not appear viable to me.

Israel has no choice. Imagine if you lived there and there was the constant fear of rockets by the thousands being launched, some of which could destroy your home and maybe kill your family. Right now, over 100,000 Israelis have left northern Israel because of the fear of a barrage from Hezbollah and the estimate of them having 150,000 or so rockets and missiles mostly supplied by Iran.

I stayed at a kibbutz there in 1991, and the bomb shelter was right next to where we stayed and ate. In 1998, I was at a kibbutz near Gaza, which was one of those brutalized on 10-7.

This is life in Israel, and I don't think most people can appreciate the dangers from Iranian proxies like Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Hamas was the duly elected government for Gaza in 2005, and that's a fact, Jack. Elections have consequences.

No. Sorry. Hamas is a junta government. They took military power in a coup.
Their conservative party was elected into a tiny majority (44 to 41) representatives in 2005. Then they attacked and killed members of the more moderate party taking complete control in 2007. I do not consider that an “fair election”, or “duly elected”.

”It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.” - Fred Kaplan (journalist on international events and warfare).

Secondly, to call Gaza a "tightly controlled prison camp" is terribly misguided, so there's nowhere else to go with such nonsense as you certainly do not know much about that region.

Thirdly, I'm done.

Actually, I’m just retelling what people who know a lot more than you or I about the region have called Gaza.
What would you call it if your city was surrounded by fencing, and guarded by soldiers, who have orders to shoot to kill if you try to break through the fencing?
I would call that city of prison. I think most sane people would.
The issue about funding and supplying the people living inside this prison camp.

Gaza: Israel’s ‘Open-Air Prison’ at 15

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html

.