Pro-Palestinian Peaceful Protests

[metis]

I'm not okay with war in general, but it makes sense that if the IDF attacks Hamas, Hamas would counter-attack.

Then why not the other way around?

Weren't you the one spouting platitudes like "this is war" a page or two ago?

Not a "platitude"-- a "reality".

I think abuses happened that should not have happened, but I also won't be the one to say that an oppressed people shouldn't fight back to remove themselves from their oppression.

Oh, what happened on 10-7 were just "abuses"! And your "oppressed people" built 350 miles of tunnels at what cost??? And what about all their weapons???

Again: I think war is never a good option. That being said, I think it's reasonable that Palestinian allies come to Palestine's aid.

"Allies"??? Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and some other groups in Syria and Iraq are proxies of Iran-- not "allies"!

Why do you think I haven't complained about this?

It's certainly an inconvenience for these people, but it's far, far down my priority list.

But your defense of the actions Iran and Hamas seems to be a high priority for you.

I've seen enough.

 

[metis]

We did help the UK during WW2, despite George Washington's advice to avoid foreign entanglements; should we have done this?

One can't always solve new problems with old solutions. Also, our revolution was actually a "foreign entanglement" as we got help from the French.

However, if we were to be consistent with what we did during WW2 in putting an end to the genocide in Nazi-occupied Europe, we'd be putting an end to the genocide in Gaza as well.

There was and is not "genocide" in Gaza, so such careless rhetoric doesn't help your position.

What happened on 10-7 was and is inexcusable for any moral person to justify, and those who say it is are simply not telling the truth. Hamas well knew what it was doing and well knew that Israel would most likely respond strongly, so they brought this 100% on themselves-- period.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

So, Zionists are "oppressors" but killing Israeli civilians in the name of "Allah" isn't?



No speculation of one realizes that Iran is the main supplier of arms for Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, ...

Yes. Palestinians can’t be oppressors because they are being oppressed. I mean that’s logical. How can you oppress people if you don’t have any authority and power ?

Well aren’t isreal being supplied with arms by the west? Don’t know what you are trying to say.
The funny thing is that the west iconsider Iran to be some kind of evil, but if you look carefully and compare what USA have done and are doing I think Iran is the lesser evil. USA are invading other countries and creating chaos when they don’t want a specific leader of a country

 

[metis]

Palestinians can’t be oppressors because they are being oppressed. I mean that’s logical.

No, it's not even remotely logical for you to say that as those in the kibbutzim and at the party in the Negev were brutally assaulted, killed, raped, tortured, etc. That's "oppression" as well.

Well aren’t isreal being supplied with arms by the west? Don’t know what you are trying to say.
The funny thing is that the west iconsider Iran to be some kind of evil, but if you look carefully and compare what USA have done and are doing I think Iran is the lesser evil. USA are invading other countries and creating chaos when they don’t want a specific leader of a country

If you are Muslem, then you should be aware of the Hadith. With the Shi'i, the dictate that once an area is under Islamic hands it must always remain as such. So, with Iran, which is predominately Shi'i, Israel cannot be acceptable on that land-- period.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

No, it's not even remotely logical for you to say that as those in the kibbutzim and at the party in the Negev were brutally assaulted, killed, raped, tortured, etc. That's "oppression" as well.

Like I said before. That what happened on 7 October some of the things were wrong. But if we look at it from what everything that happens in de past. The Zionist are the one with the power.
You can thinK what happened on 7 October is some kind of oppression but I am talking in a greater oppression. A population that can’t do certain things and aren’t in control of their own existence

 

[metis]

A population that can’t do certain things and aren’t in control of their own existence

Hamas was in control, which is why so many tunnels they built and weapons they assembled. To justify their atrocities as you have done is atrocious and immoral in almost every respect.

fini

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Hamas was in control, which is why so many tunnels they built and weapons they assembled. To justify their atrocities as you have done is atrocious and immoral in almost every respect.

fini

Interesting. So Hamas had total control of Gaza?

Nice try but I didn’t justify any killings of non combatants

 

[Revoltingest]

Hamas was in control, which is why so many tunnels they built and weapons they assembled. To justify their atrocities as you have done is atrocious and immoral in almost every respect.

fini

Speaking of atrocities....
Israel kills 45, including children in the process of killing 2 Hamas members.

Israeli attack on Rafah tent camp kills 45, prompts international outcry

CAIRO/JERUSALEM (Reuters) -An Israeli airstrike triggered a fire that killed 45 people in a tent camp in the Gazan city of Rafah, officials said on Monday, prompting an outcry from global leaders who urged the implementation of a World Court order to halt Israel's assault. Palestinian families...

www.yahoo.com

 

[anotherneil]

One can't always solve new problems with old solutions.

Straw man - I didn't say anything about solutions, only about consistency.

Also, our revolution was actually a "foreign entanglement" as we got help from the French.

Actually no it wasn't, because at that time the British & French were involved in colonization in this area of North America & it doesn't make sense to refer to them as "foreign" until after independence.

I think that we (the US) shouldn't be providing any weapons or money to any foreign entities through our government, and we should be imposing sanctions on any entities that engage in genocide.

There was and is not "genocide" in Gaza, so such careless rhetoric doesn't help your position.

There was and still is genocide happening in Gaza, and I don't have a position; I don't matter. I'm only calling it as I see it.

What happened on 10-7 was and is inexcusable for any moral person to justify, and those who say it is are simply not telling the truth.

I don't know who's trying to excuse it, but I myself have never excused it and I have no intention to do so, either. What these attackers from Gaza who invaded Israel did in kidnapping and killing these individuals in Israel was wrong, and what the government of Israel did in either being negligent (or ostensibly dangling these victims as bait?) by not protecting these victims was also wrong.

Hamas well knew what it was doing and well knew that Israel would most likely respond strongly, so they brought this 100% on themselves-- period.

Ok, if you say so. There's more than one side to a story (one more than the number of parties involved if none of them are telling the truth); I hear from American media reporting, from Israel (spokespeople, military officials, etc.), and from Israel's supporters, but I don't hear anything from the side of either the Gazans or Hamas.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then why not the other way around?



Not a "platitude"-- a "reality".



Oh, what happened on 10-7 were just "abuses"! And your "oppressed people" built 350 miles of tunnels at what cost??? And what about all their weapons???



"Allies"??? Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and some other groups in Syria and Iraq are proxies of Iran-- not "allies"!



But your defense of the actions Iran and Hamas seems to be a high priority for you.

I've seen enough.

A question for you, since you obviously disagree with what Hamas has done:

How do you think the Palestinian people should have removed themselves from the oppression they were facing (and continue to face)?

You disagree with a military approach; well then, what approach would you recommend instead?

... or do you think they should have just put up with it indefinitely?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Speaking of atrocities....
Israel kills 45, including children in the process of killing 2 Hamas members.

Israeli attack on Rafah tent camp kills 45, prompts international outcry

CAIRO/JERUSALEM (Reuters) -An Israeli airstrike triggered a fire that killed 45 people in a tent camp in the Gazan city of Rafah, officials said on Monday, prompting an outcry from global leaders who urged the implementation of a World Court order to halt Israel's assault. Palestinian families...

www.yahoo.com

Then Hamas shouldn't be using them as shields in violation of recognized rules of war.

Although I feel Israel needs to be more surgical in its offensive, they are still in their rights to attack the enemy present there even if a risk of collateral damage is present in situations where human shields are uses.

Don't believe it? Ask an expert on the matter....


In short, said international law professor Neve Gordon, "protected people — civilians — cannot be used to shield a legitimate military target. And if they are used, then it does not render the target immune from attack. I can still attack the target even if it is protected by human shields."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-hamas-gaza-human-shields-1.7103756

 

[Revoltingest]

Then Hamas shouldn't be using them as shields in violation of recognized rules of war.

It's not clear that this is the case.
It could be similar to Israel's soldiers
being surrounded by civilians.

Although I feel Israel needs to be more surgical in its offensive, they are still in their rights to attack the enemy present there even if a risk of collateral damage is present in situations where human shields are uses.

This damage isn't just collateral.
It's intentional, as evidenced by killing Israeli
hostages who escaped, & were killed because
they were mistaken for Palestinian civilians.

Don't believe it? Ask an expert on the matter....


In short, said international law professor Neve Gordon, "protected people — civilians — cannot be used to shield a legitimate military target. And if they are used, then it does not render the target immune from attack. I can still attack the target even if it is protected by human shields."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-hamas-gaza-human-shields-1.7103756

This doesn't justify intentional
killing of civilians, & genocide.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Then Hamas shouldn't be using them as shields in violation of recognized rules of war.

Although I feel Israel needs to be more surgical in its offensive, they are still in their rights to attack the enemy present there even if a risk of collateral damage is present in situations where human shields are uses.

Don't believe it? Ask an expert on the matter....


In short, said international law professor Neve Gordon, "protected people — civilians — cannot be used to shield a legitimate military target. And if they are used, then it does not render the target immune from attack. I can still attack the target even if it is protected by human shields."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-hamas-gaza-human-shields-1.7103756

When a

Then Hamas shouldn't be using them as shields in violation of recognized rules of war.

Although I feel Israel needs to be more surgical in its offensive, they are still in their rights to attack the enemy present there even if a risk of collateral damage is present in situations where human shields are uses.

Don't believe it? Ask an expert on the matter....


In short, said international law professor Neve Gordon, "protected people — civilians — cannot be used to shield a legitimate military target. And if they are used, then it does not render the target immune from attack. I can still attack the target even if it is protected by human shields."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/israel-hamas-gaza-human-shields-1.7103756

tell me something I hear this a lot, human shield

If a population are being oppressed and living with millions of people in a small area.
How should they resist against its occupation?
Should Hamas build a military base so isreal can stop the resistance in one blow?
Should Hamas soldiers wear recognizable clothing to make a distinction between a soldier and a civilian?

This situation is created by the Zionist . The Palestinians didn’t choose to be living in one of the most denced places in the world.
It’s like asking why did the resistance in ww2 used human shields, why did they hid under the civilians. Why take the risk that civilians could be killed?

Simple answer because that is what the situation dictates. Avoid becoming a easy target so the resistance can continue and eventually overcome the occupiers

 

[Twilight Hue]

When a

tell me something I hear this a lot, human shield

If a population are being oppressed and living with millions of people in a small area.
How should they resist against its occupation?
Should Hamas build a military base so isreal can stop the resistance in one blow?
Should Hamas soldiers wear recognizable clothing to make a distinction between a soldier and a civilian?

This situation is created by the Zionist . The Palestinians didn’t choose to be living in one of the most denced places in the world.
It’s like asking why did the resistance in ww2 used human shields, why did they hid under the civilians. Why take the risk that civilians could be killed?

Simple answer because that is what the situation dictates. Avoid becoming a easy target so the resistance can continue and eventually overcome the occupiers

It's a shame then when the British relinquished its hold on the land, that had the Palestinians practiced restraint instead of initiating hostilities, the war wouldn't even be active today.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

It's a shame then when the British relinquished its hold on the land, that had the Palestinians practiced restraint instead of initiating hostilities, the war wouldn't even be active today.

I recall under British rule the Zionist committed numerous act of violence. The most famous one was the attack on the hotel David. Which killed Jews, Muslims and even English citizens. So it’s all depends how look at things

 

[Twilight Hue]

I recall under British rule the Zionist committed numerous act of violence. The most famous one was the attack on the hotel David. Which killed Jews, Muslims and even English citizens. So it’s all depends how look at things

I started by looking at the First Intifada.

 

[McBell]

We are simply not playing the same role.

What is different?
I mean other than you agree with USA involvement and not Iran involvement.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I started by looking at the First Intifada.

Yeah usually pro Zionist tend to do that.

 

[metis]

What is different?
I mean other than you agree with USA involvement and not Iran involvement.

If you can't see it, then it's obvious where the problem lies as one is a reaction to the other, thus it's important to recognize the primary cause.

 

[metis]

Take a look at the map that includes northern Africa and western Asia all the way to Bangladesh. Compare that land mass to the size of Israel. Now, with that vast difference in size and population, can anyone honestly tell us that there's no place that could help take in the Palestinians who don't want to stay in Gaza? After WWII, many Jews left Europe and Asia to live in Israel for obvious reasons, and they were well accepted in. Why haven't the other countries one this with the "Palestinians"?

Some may say "Yes, but they're Palestinians who want to be with their own". But "their own" are what we now call "Arabs" as there was no "Palestine" before the Brits made an agreement with the French to divide up that area. Israel also got only roughly 1/6 of the land in 1948 with the majority of "Palestinians" living in the WB and Jordan and also Gaza. Now did this satisfy the "Arabs"? Of course not for reasons previously explained.

Again and again, this is a religious war being conducted mainly by Iran because of what's said in the Hadith with proxies on three sides of Israel. And yet we are to believe that this is Israel's fault???

enough