Proclaim the Good News to all creation

[John Martin]

He (Jesus) said to them, Go out to the whole world; proclaim the gospel (goodnews9 to all creation; whoever believes and baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mk. 16.15-16) The New Jerusalem Bible.

We know that this is the most important statement for the Christian missionaries. I want your comments on it or your own interpretations on it.

My own interpretation is that it is
1. To proclaim the good news or gospel
2. to all creation
3. Believes and baptized
4 will be saved
5. Does not believe will be condemned

1. The good news: Jesus began his ministry with the words in the gospel of Mark 1.14-15: the time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand, repent, and believe in the good news. In the gospel of Mathew we have a short version: repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. The central good news of Jesus was this one statement: repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Other words like the time is fulfilled, believe, baptized, will be saved, and condemned were the beliefs of the early Church.
Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand: this statement has two aspects: objective and subjective. Objectively it means that God is everywhere and everyone and everything is in God. It reveals the universal presence of God. Subjectively it means that the whole of creation of human beings are the manifestations of God or sons and daughters of God and they are finally one with God: the Father and I are one'. The word 'repent' can be understood in different ways. The simple way is realize or experience or discover or awake to the universal presence of God, to the realization as the manifestations of God and ultimately one with God. The word for repent is metanoia, metanoia means to go beyond nous. In the Platonic philosophy reality has four levels, soma -body, psyche- world soul or collective consciousness, nous-universal consciousness and finally arche- the one, divine. In order to experience the universal presence of God and experience oneness with God one has to transcend identification with the body, sarx or soma; identification with psyche-collective consciousness; identification with nous-the universal consciousness. Metanoia is to go beyond nous.

Proclaim the good news to all creation. What is this good news to be proclaimed to all creation. It is to proclaim that God is everywhere and everyone and everything is in God. It is to proclaim that human beings are manifestations of God and ultimately one with God; to proclaim the whole of creation that it is the manifestation of God. This proclamation is not only to human beings but also to non-humans-to all creatures.
Repent is an invitation to everyone to realize this universal truth.

Those who believe: before we realize this truth we need to believe in this good news and making that belief as our own personal experience which need profound inner purification.
Baptized: being baptized is an external sign of believing this good news.
Will be saved: Those who accept this message and receive external sign of baptism and purify their levels of ignorance experience the universal presence of God and oneness with God are liberated from their life of ignorance.
Those who do not believe in this good news and do not go through the process of inner purification
Will be condemned: will live in ignorance and a life of barrenness and emptiness and waste their dignity of divine manifestation.
The time is fulfilled. It can mean different things. One meaning is that the time which began with the fall of humanity in the Garden of Eden has come to an end. The human consciousness has returned from the path of time to the path of eternity. Humanity starts living in the universal presence of God, 'I am in the Father and the Father in me'. It also can mean the movement of ignorance has come to an end the light of wisdom has dawned. It also can mean that human consciousness has full grown in the womb of time and it is given birth into the realm of eternity.
I will be very grateful if you have any comments or your own interpretations.

 

[Titanic]

I was raised as a Baptist but i am not one anymore. If it is true then i say well bring on the good news! my interpetiation is that the bible was inspired and written by man alone. Jesus might have in fact existed on this earth but if he did i say he was just a man who tried to make a change in the world. I am inbetween religions myself, leaning towards being an angostic though.

 

[John Martin]

Dear Titanic,
Be truthful to your understanding until you realize yourself what others say.
No forcing.

 

[Riverwolf]

Will be condemned: will live in ignorance and a life of barrenness and emptiness and waste their dignity of divine manifestation.

The funny thing is I used to have nearly that exact attitude towards everyone back when I was practicing my made-up religion and was closed off to people who thought different than me (seeing as the religion was made-up, that pretty much consisted of everyone). And for the record, I was not raised Christian.

I'm not Christian, yet I would hardly call my life barren and empty. When it comes to ignorance, well, everyone's ignorant of many things. I, for one, am ignorant of life in Mongolia, Russian history, chemistry, post-high-school mathematics...

 

[John Martin]

The funny thing is I used to have nearly that exact attitude towards everyone back when I was practicing my made-up religion and was closed off to people who thought different than me (seeing as the religion was made-up, that pretty much consisted of everyone). And for the record, I was not raised Christian.

I'm not Christian, yet I would hardly call my life barren and empty. When it comes to ignorance, well, everyone's ignorant of many things. I, for one, am ignorant of life in Mongolia, Russian history, chemistry, post-high-school mathematics...

Dear Riverwolf,
thank you for your post. I do appreciate your comments. According to the Bible, God created human beings in his own image and likeness. The vocation of human beings is to be 'fruitful and multiply'. for me it means to manifest the attributes of love and compassion in our human relationships. This manifestation happens if we are living from the fullness of being. If we do not live from our fullness then we live from out emptiness and fill that emptiness from outside.There can be great excitement and fulfillment in filling our emptiness but that is the life we are made for. Jesus saw a barren fig tree and cursed it. It is very strange. I understand it to mean: Jesus saw human beings of his time like that barren fig tree there were living but there were barren according to the plan of God. They were not living from their image and likeness of God even though they believed in God and were trying to follow the Law. Jesus might have been sad to see thousands of people living but not living. How do we feel if we have hundred thousand fig trees in our land and on one bears fruit?

When it comes to ignorance, well, everyone's ignorant of many things. I, for one, am ignorant of life in Mongolia, Russian history, chemistry, post-high-school mathematics...[/quote]

yes, I do agree with you in this sense. But the ignorance which spiritual masters speak is the ignorance of our true nature as manifested in the image and likeness of God. it is the ignorance of 'who we are in our deepest level'. Spiritual masters tell us that it takes intense quest and spiritual purification to see who we are really:we have the famous statement of Socrates: know they self. Indian sages always invite people to know their true self, Brahman and Atman. Jesus Christ also said, 'first of all search for the kingdom of God and its righteousness and then all things will be given unto you.
Thanks

Thanks.

 

[Vinayaka]

What's to debate?

 

[John Martin]

What's to debate?

it is an invitation to share how people understand the command of Jesus to his disciples to proclaim the good news to the whole of creation. Since this statement is the foundation for the Christian missionary activity and it is causing a lot of conflict and violence some parts of the world and particularly in India, a proper understanding of this statement can change our understanding of Christ's message,his vision,his mission consequently the vision and mission of Christianity in the world and particularly in India.

 

[Vinayaka]

I understand it literally, and so do the vast majority of Christians proseltysing in India. If they understood it some other way, they wouldn't be proseltysing. Then, or course, there are those who purposefully sugarcoat it to make it more pallatable. (sp?)

 

[InChrist]

Proclaim the good news to all creation. What is this good news to be proclaimed to all creation. It is to proclaim that God is everywhere and everyone and everything is in God. It is to proclaim that human beings are manifestations of God and ultimately one with God; to proclaim the whole of creation that it is the manifestation of God. This proclamation is not only to human beings but also to non-humans-to all creatures.
Repent is an invitation to everyone to realize this universal truth.

This sounds like pantheism, not the good news of Jesus Christ or the message of the Bible. Why don’t you just preach straight Hinduism instead of using the Bible and twisting biblical scriptures to do so?

 

[Vinayaka]

Why don’t you just preach straight Hinduism instead of using the Bible and twisting biblical scriptures to do so?

No thanks. Please keep him.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Truth just dosent require any proclamation. The fact this needs a vehicle for convincing makes it suspect.

 

[John Martin]

I understand it literally, and so do the vast majority of Christians proseltysing in India. If they understood it some other way, they wouldn't be proseltysing. Then, or course, there are those who purposefully sugarcoat it to make it more pallatable. (sp?)

Scriptures have different levels of meanings. Scripture grows as we grow in our relationship with God or with Truth. I remember a beautiful story in the Upanishads( I cannot quote now): once demons,human beings and gods went to the teacher: the teacher gave instruction to the demons: Da He gave the teaching to the humansa He gave the teaching to the gods: Da The demons(dominated by the lower desires) understood it :be self controlled The humans(who are above their lower nature) understood it: be generous or Charitable The Gods who have controlled their lower nature understood it: be merciful, compassionate,do not be proud. The teacher gave the same teaching to everyone but each one has understood according to their nature. So far Christians have interpreted this command in a limited and exclusive way and took upon them the mission of converting people. My proposition is that today we need to understand this command of Jesus in an exclusive and universal way, so that there will not be a mission to convert. It will be a mission without conversion or proselytizing. This is a quantum leap Christianity has to make in its vision and mission. Thank you for your comments.

 

[Riverwolf]

Dear Riverwolf,
thank you for your post. I do appreciate your comments. According to the Bible, God created human beings in his own image and likeness. The vocation of human beings is to be 'fruitful and multiply'. for me it means to manifest the attributes of love and compassion in our human relationships. This manifestation happens if we are living from the fullness of being. If we do not live from our fullness then we live from out emptiness and fill that emptiness from outside.There can be great excitement and fulfillment in filling our emptiness but that is the life we are made for. Jesus saw a barren fig tree and cursed it. It is very strange. I understand it to mean: Jesus saw human beings of his time like that barren fig tree there were living but there were barren according to the plan of God. They were not living from their image and likeness of God even though they believed in God and were trying to follow the Law. Jesus might have been sad to see thousands of people living but not living. How do we feel if we have hundred thousand fig trees in our land and on one bears fruit?

This fulfillment you speak of can happen without religion. You see, it's inherent in our behavior as social animals.

The problems arise when it only manifests in tribalism: that is, showing kindness and compassion for your "tribe" (i.e., family, religion, etc.) and no one else. (Jesus brought this up as well.) It should, rather, be directed at everyone.

But, again, people are capable of doing this without religion or theistic belief. They're also capable of failing at it while practicing a religion that teaches to do so.

yes, I do agree with you in this sense. But the ignorance which spiritual masters speak is the ignorance of our true nature as manifested in the image and likeness of God. it is the ignorance of 'who we are in our deepest level'. Spiritual masters tell us that it takes intense quest and spiritual purification to see who we are really:we have the famous statement of Socrates: know they self. Indian sages always invite people to know their true self, Brahman and Atman. Jesus Christ also said, 'first of all search for the kingdom of God and its righteousness and then all things will be given unto you.
Thanks

Thanks.

I read Yogananda, too. I'm aware of the inherent divinity of humanity. 'Till recently I was a practicing Hindu for two years. Tat tvam asi.

 

[Vinayaka]

@JM So what happens when a Hindu becomes curious about this mix, there in TN? Suppose he begs to change his name to a Christian one, and be baptised? Does the ashram actually refuse him?

Another question? Which is it? Reincarnation, or heaven/hell? Which one do you actually believe in, in this Hindu/Christian mix? It seems confusing to me.

 

[John Martin]

I understand it literally, and so do the vast majority of Christians proseltysing in India. If they understood it some other way, they wouldn't be proseltysing. Then, or course, there are those who purposefully sugarcoat it to make it more pallatable. (sp?)

I am sorry I had posted a reply to this post and I do not see it.
Scriptures have different levels of meanings. When great souls who had a profound experience of God speak from a higher level of consciousness, the listeners can understand and interpret according to their own level of experience and understanding. There is an interesting narration in the Upanishads (I cannot quote it now). Demons (who live according to the senses, lower nature) humans (who are controlling their lower nature) and gods (who have controlled their lower nature) go to a teacher for wisdom. (We can also say demons are those who live according to Tamas, humans are those who live according to rajas and gods are those who lives according to sattva)
When the demons came, the master said: Da
When the humans came, the master said: Da
When the gods came the master said: Da.
When the master asked them what they understood, the demons replied: Dama, be self-restrained, or controlled.
When the master asked the humans, they replied: Dana, be charitable, generous, sharing, concern for the others.
When the master asked the gods, they replied: Daya, be compassionate, merciful, not to be proud or judgmental (help the human and the demons to grow and not to condemn them.
The teacher transcends these three categories. The teacher goes beyond Tamas, beyond rajas and beyond sattava. He is one with the eternal truth. He or she is truth itself. Aham Brahmasmi, I am Brahman, I am Atman and I am the Truth.
The Vedas of which Upanishads are a part, the Brahma sutras and the Bhagavad-Gita are three pillars of Sanathana Dharma or Hinduism. But the sages have interpreted in their own way: Sankara-advaita, Ramanuja- visistaadvaita, Madhva-dvaita, Nimbarka-dvaitadvaita, Caitanya-acintya bedabeda, Vallab-Suddaadviata, Sri Ramakrishna had his own vision, Sri Vivekananda had his own vision which he called Vedanta or Sanathana Dharma and Sri Aurobindo calls his system Integral Yoga. Why same scriptures different interpretations?
Each one is right according to its level. The scripture gives possibility for that but we cannot say that one system has absolute truth. Systems are human constructions. But truth is not a system. It is life, something alive, dynamic. We cannot measure something alive.
Hence we cannot say that literal interpretation is the only way of interpreting Jesus’ teachings. Jesus Christ was an extraordinary teacher. He transcended three qualities of Tamas, rajas and sattava and became himself the way, the truth and the life. Our interpretations have to do justice to him. Christians also have interpreted Jesus teachings in various ways so there are thousands of Christian denominations in the world and they are still multiplying. The interpretations mainly have been exclusive and divisive. One thing that unites them is the literal interpretation of the command of Jesus to proclaim the gospel and work for conversions. This understanding had its own positive consequences but also negative. It has become the source of division, violence and conflict. Jesus did not come to divide but to unite, to bring peace. Christianity has to grow from its ‘mission to convert’ to ‘Mission to dialogue’. In its dialogue with the Vedic vision it may discover similar vision and shake hands with it and work for the welfare of the whole of creation: Lokah samasta sukino bhavantu: May all beings in the world be happy.

 

[John Martin]

This sounds like pantheism, not the good news of Jesus Christ or the message of the Bible. Why don’t you just preach straight Hinduism instead of using the Bible and twisting biblical scriptures to do so?

Dear InCristo,
Thank you very much for your reply and I do appreciate your willingness to continue this dialogue. It is my conviction that we must have an open mind and open heart, like a pure mirror. Any kind of prejudice or fixed idea blocks our search for Truth. You say that it looks like’ pantheism’ and equate pantheism with Hinduism and then implicitly say that Jesus is a not a pantheist.
One thing has to be clear. Hinduism is not pantheism .Hinduism is monotheism. There are two statements in the Vedas which affirm this truth: ekam sat vipra bahuthi vadanti. Sat means self-existing reality. It is identical with God even though Vedic sages do not use the word ‘God’. It means that there is only one God (one Infinite Being) but sages call it by many names. (RgVeda1.164.46.) another statement is the subjective expression of God: ekam eva advitiyam: I, one alone, am. There is no second. So these two statements make it clear that there is only one God. Hinduism is monotheism
Biblical Tradition is also Monotheism. I do not need to tell you about it. Yahweh says, ‘I am Yahweh; there is no other God except me. (Isaiah 45.5). Jesus also repeats this truth.
The difference between Biblical or Prophetic Monotheism and Vedic Monotheism is that the Prophetic monotheism believes that God is the creator and human beings and creation is creatures of God. Generally it is said that God creates creation out of nothing. There is a gulf between God and creation. Vedic Monotheism does not believe in a creator God. It considers that nothing comes out of nothing. If creation is not created by God then from where does it come? This is the biggest problem in the Vedic thinking. The general thinking is that it comes from God like ice comes from the water. The ice is not another independent reality. It is not another God. It can be described as the manifestation of God. It is not pantheism. Pantheism means everything is God. Everything is not God. Everything is the manifestation of God. When this ice melts it is water. Since creation is not created by God and comes from God, it has the possibility it return to its original source. It does not become another God. There is only one God, monotheism. The prophetic tradition believes in a creator God and human beings are basically, creatures of God. Christianity has two positions. One for human beings and creation and another for Christ: Human beings are creatures of God but Christ is not a creature of God. He is the Son of God and finally one with God: the Father and I are one. St. John says, ‘in the beginning was the word, the word was with God and the word was God. Everything that God created came through that word. The expression ‘the Son of God’ can be said as the manifestation of God or the incarnation of God (pantheism?). Is the expression ‘the Father and I are one’ is pantheism? Jesus’ experience of God was closer to the Vedic experience of God. For him God was not his creator, God was his Father. Not only God was his Father, he was one with the Father. Christianity presents Prophetic monotheism or dualistic monotheism when it speaks of Christians and it presents Vedic Monotheism (non-dualistic monotheism) when it speaks of Jesus. It is this dual vision that creates a kind of spiritual apartheid between Christ and Christians. While advaitic vision of Hinduism loves Christ and his advaitic vision but it has difficulty with the dualistic vision of Christianity and Christians. So we have the statement we love Christ but do not like Christians. If Christ says, ’the Father and I are one’, for Christians, it is truth and revelation. But the Vedic sage, who has made the similar statement ‘Atman is Brahman, I and God are one, 500 years before Jesus, for Christians, has no truth. This is not reasonable. While advaitic vision of Vedic tradition gives possibility of advaitic experience to everyone, Christianity limits it only to Christ. This is the limitation of Christianity. What Jesus said was considered blasphemy in his Jewish tradition and the Islamic tradition also considers that statement of Jesus ( if he had made it really)blasphemous but the Vedic sages would have welcomed Jesus' statements with open heart and mind and might have embraced him as their spiritual brother. The greatest challenge from the Non-dualistic Vedic tradition to Christianity is to open the possibility of non-dualistic experience of God that Jesus had to all Christians and not limiting it only to Christ.
It is not my intention to teach ’isms’. Are not ‘isms’ a human construction? Isms are only labels that we give to the experience of God or Truth on our spiritual journey.They are only like sign- posts on our journey. Truth has no boundaries. Limiting the boundless truth into exclusive ‘isms’ is to kill it. It is blasphemy. Jesus Christ refused to commit this blasphemy. The goal is to become the way, the truth and the life, as Jesus did. Only a person who enters into the infinite truth declares, ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to this living truth except by coming out of all ‘isms’ or relative truths.

 

[John Martin]

This fulfillment you speak of can happen without religion. You see, it's inherent in our behavior as social animals.

The problems arise when it only manifests in tribalism: that is, showing kindness and compassion for your "tribe" (i.e., family, religion, etc.) and no one else. (Jesus brought this up as well.) It should, rather, be directed at everyone.

But, again, people are capable of doing this without religion or theistic belief. They're also capable of failing at it while practicing a religion that teaches to do so.

Dear Riverwolf,
I do agree with you that people can grow into universal love without religion or theistic belief and they are also capable of failing at it while practicing religion. Thank you so much I really appreciate your comments.


I read Yogananda, too. I'm aware of the inherent divinity of humanity. 'Till recently I was a practicing Hindu for two years. Tat tvam asi.[/quote

Dear Riverwolf,
I do agree with you that people can grow into universal love without religion or theistic belief and they are also capable of failing at it while practicing religion. Thank you so much I really appreciate your comments. I have read some of the writings of Swami Yogananda and it was an inspiring experience.

 

[John Martin]

Truth just dosent require any proclamation. The fact this needs a vehicle for convincing makes it suspect.

Dear Nowhere Man,
Yes, I do agree with you that truth does not need to be proclaimed but it needs to be shared. Human beings are not isolated individuals but they are all interconnected and inter- dependent social beings. What we believe affects others. If we live in our own individual truth or individualism then we create a world of extreme individualism, creating a fragmented world focused only on individual fulfillment. The society is there for an individual. If we live in our collective belief systems then we create world of exclusive truths which results in divisions, conflict and violence. Individuals live for the collective systems and they are even willing to die for them. We need to share our truths, discuss, and evaluate in the light of others and then we may discover the truth that unites us with all and brings unity and peace. This unity and peace brings us into silence. Truth does not need a vehicle to convince others but it needs a vehicle to protect itself, to see that it is not killed, to see that it is not fragmented into individualism and collectivism.

 

[WyattDerp]

That's actually bad news though. Prior to it, nobody would have even entertained the thought of some people burning forever in hell for having been misguided into not knowing the password.

This is like calling a 50% price reduction on a piece of bread that used to cost 50000$ an opportunity to save 25000$. I also wrote a play to illustrate:

some dude: "I have good news! A fire broke out in a skyscraper, and some people living on the bottom floors got out alright." non-crazy person: "get that jerk out of here before I forget myself"

[well, in reality many people say "ohhh, what a coincidence, I ALSO live on the bottom floor! Thanks for bringing me these glad tidings, people should know better than to move into the living space that was available to them, as opposed to the one that was available to me", bunch of Sherlocks and Defenders of Justice and Honour that they are]

It's interesting to see how old doublethink is though, and how it always got away with being so crude and out in the open. Maybe it was once supposed to be used for a good reason, like a biological weapon that wasn't supposed to get into the wrong hands, and which now 3 year olds cook up with ease. Thanks, God. You plant the best trees..

 

[John Martin]

@JM So what happens when a Hindu becomes curious about this mix, there in TN? Suppose he begs to change his name to a Christian one, and be baptised? Does the ashram actually refuse him?

Another question? Which is it? Reincarnation, or heaven/hell? Which one do you actually believe in, in this Hindu/Christian mix? It seems confusing to me.

Dear Vinayaka,
This is not a mix. A mix is something artificial, syncretistic. Trust is not a mixture of different things borrowed from different belief systems. Truth stands on itself. It is purnam, fullness. There is no possibility for a Hindu to become curious about it. Many Hindus visit our ashram particularly Sadhus and Sannyasis and stay for few days. They feel at home and are happy that their religion is accepted. Many wonder why there is conflict between Hindus and Christians. No one has begged us to make him or her Christian and baptized. Meanwhile it is not our mission to convert anyone. We look at our spiritual life as a journey towards God. Religions are only like transport companies, buses. One enters into a bus in order to get out when the destiny comes. No one makes a bus his or her living place. The problem comes only when people the buses into their homes and forgot the destiny. Religious affiliation is only provisional. People are free to choose whatever bus company they want to choose. There cannot be state monopoly or religious monopoly on it. In fact multiple bus companies may be good. Certain completion keeps the bus owner alert, to give better facilities, but the goal should be clear, God, not religion. Buses do not collect people to keep them in the bus but only in order to take them to God.
Another question? Which is it? Reincarnation, or heaven/hell? Which one do you actually believe in, in this Hindu/Christian mix? It seems confusing to me.
We have two different theological systems: dualistic system and non-dualistic system. Hell and heaven are the concepts that are connected to the dualistic system. Jesus Christ was born in the dualistic system of theology, in which the concepts of after life, Hell and Heaven were not very clear. But his spiritual journey took him beyond the dualistic relationship with God and he had the non-dualistic experience of God in which he affirmed his identity with God and said, ‘ the Father and I are one’. That means he has gone beyond the concepts of Hell and heaven in after life but experience of oneness with God. His followers who were very much conditioned by the Jewish eschatology understood Jesus’s teachings of after life as places of permanent Hell and Heaven. We cannot blame them. Being born in the initial stages of dualistic thinking where there was no definite belief in after death, believing in the definite after life, the permanent Hell and Heaven are kind of progress. Again conditioned so much by the transcendence of God it would have been difficult for them to imagine that they also can have the non-dualistic experience that Jesus had. They limited it only Jesus and accepted that Jesus alone was the Son of God and he alone was with the Father. It is with this belief that gave birth to Christianity as a religion, even though it was not the intention of Jesus Christ to start a new religion. We can say that to accept non-dualistic experience even to person was a progress. The Jewish religious authorizes considered Jesus’ experience as blasphemous and eventually he had to die on cross for blasphemy.
Reincarnation:
The belief in Reincarnation is fundamental to Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Prophetic religions life Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not officially believe in it, even though individuals of these religions may believe in it. My position is that 1. There is reincarnation. 2. Blindly believing in reincarnation is not very useful and liberating. 3. Blindly rejecting reincarnation is also not very useful. 4. Only seeing reincarnation as a fact alone can help us to be free from it. 5. Vedic Sages did not believe in reincarnation. They saw it as a fact. 6.By seeing it as a fact they realized that it is mechanical movement, not worth continuing it. 7.By realizing their identity with Brahman or Atman they became free all beliefs including in reincarnation. 8. Vedic sages did not ask people to believe in reincarnation but to see it as a fact and be free from it.
I had posted my thoughts on reincarnation but not much reaction so I send you again in the next post.