Progress in sadhana

[Vinayaka]

Of course the ultimate goal is moksha, but as we tread this path of yoga, some days it seems like we're not moving much at all. Some days we even take it as far as actually forgetting we're SUPPOSED to be moving. The dreaded spiritual standstill?

So what exactly is this movement, this evolution, this change?

- becoming a little kinder
- becoming a little less reactive
- becoming a little wiser
- a little more patient
- more flexible
- gentle, softer
- less selfish
- less argumentative

So what exactly do we do to accomplish some change in a day to day environment? Is it measurable? Is it necessary to have an awareness of it?

Thoughts?

 

[George-ananda]

So what exactly do we do to accomplish some change in a day to day environment? Is it measurable? Is it necessary to have an awareness of it?

Thoughts?

I think the progress of sadhana will show the things you mentioned and in general a sense of more internal peace, detachment from desires and events beyond your control, a sense of compassion towards everyone one we meet. Things like meditation, japa, rituals, jnana, etc. are not the goals but exercises to help us reach the goals. Maybe sadhana should be looked on as exercises to achieve a healthy mind and that healthy mind will lead us to the goal.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I think those qualities naturally develop from a sense of awareness. Its easy to be reactive, impatient, angry - when we don't look closely at what our minds and bodies are doing while they're going it. I think first there must be intent, from intent comes awareness, and from awareness comes a change in habit, changes in habit lead to a gradual "softening", where soon it's no longer necessarily to try, you just are. At least this is how it has been with me. There were't specific habits I sought to change, but those habits changed on their own, slowly after awareness.

People like to talk about awareness a lot in relation to meditation. And medication is certainly a helpful activity. I think it intimidates people though. There are more approachable mindfulness exercises such as volunteering or creating art. These don't feel like you're working on the soul, but that's almost a good thing.

 

[Vinayaka]

These don't feel like you're working on the soul, but that's almost a good thing.

Thank you for the insights. Seva doesn't feel like you're working on the soul either. But it's accruing punya, and the less we're aware of it, the better. Certainly. a bit more time than is 'normal' in this fast paced era is a boon.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Of course the ultimate goal is moksha, but as we tread this path of yoga, some days it seems like we're not moving much at all. Some days we even take it as far as actually forgetting we're SUPPOSED to be moving. The dreaded spiritual standstill?

So what exactly is this movement, this evolution, this change?

- becoming a little kinder
- becoming a little less reactive
- becoming a little wiser
- a little more patient
- more flexible
- gentle, softer
- less selfish
- less argumentative

So what exactly do we do to accomplish some change in a day to day environment? Is it measurable? Is it necessary to have an awareness of it?

Thoughts?

All the things you have listed pertain to worldly life. And Moksha is about transcending/eschewing worldly life. Therefore, they cannot be used to measure spiritual progress.

 

[Vinayaka]

My understanding of moksha is that it is an outcome of something else, namely nirvikalpa samadhi. That, in turn, is the outcome of renunciation well performed, although that's not really the correct way to view it. Still, in order to get to that start line, preparation is in order. Certainly, being a jerk and not working on character traits isn't of much help.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I translate Moksha as enlightenment, jnana. If something gives me more understanding then it is progress. It could be connected with Big Bang or Evolution.

 

[StarryNightshade]

All the things you have listed pertain to worldly life. And Moksha is about transcending/eschewing worldly life. Therefore, they cannot be used to measure spiritual progress.

Couldn't one make the point that, by doing said worldly things, one potentially finds the tools needed to attain Moksha? Or at least they find a path to Moksha?

For example, I could go into the forest and do nothing but sadhana. I could also engage in the secular world by performing karma yoga/seva to others.

Both are potential paths to Moksha; one of which deals with the worldly and material.

Of course, one can also make the point that total detachment is a prerequisite for Moksha, but you eventually have to get to that point. Why not make the most of it?

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm failing miserably.

Oh sure, my temple attendance is up, the frequency of my spontaneous prayers is up, my mindfulness of the gods is at an all-time high (we called it "god intoxication" in another thread). But my level of patience, tolerance, compassion, joy, calmness, hope is so low it's probably reaching the Earth's mantle by now. That must be negating any progress I might make.

 

[StarryNightshade]

I'm failing miserably.

Oh sure, my temple attendance is up, the frequency of my spontaneous prayers is up, my mindfulness of the gods is at an all-time high (we called it "god intoxication" in another thread). But my level of patience, tolerance, compassion, joy, calmness, hope is so low it's probably reaching the Earth's mantle by now. That must be negating any progress I might make.

Don't feel so bad, Jai.

Aside from Upakarma and Gayatri japam this week, my Sadhana continues to go through seasons. Some days it comes more naturally; other days it's a chore.

I feel you about hope being low. Only thing we can do is take it a day at a time.

 

[Jainarayan]

I feel you about hope being low. Only thing we can do is take it a day at a time.

For me right now it's a matter of being worn down on a few fronts... financial, job, always waiting for the other shoe to drop. The spark I maintain is that the gods have been helping and been good to me, but I can't expect it or rely on them. I find a conflict in what I feel now and the verses from the Bhagavad Gita 12.13-15

One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor [entitled to special rights is the meaning of 'proprietor'] and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me—such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me. He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anyone, who is equipoised in happiness and distress, fear and anxiety, is very dear to Me.

The bolded part is my problem.

But this isn't meant to be a rant or a pity party, but the reasons why I feel my sadhana is not progressing.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Couldn't one make the point that, by doing said worldly things, one potentially finds the tools needed to attain Moksha? Or at least they find a path to Moksha?

In my opinion, No.

This is why traditionally moksha has always been the goal of renunciates and aged people. It is only in modern times that the system has been controverted (especially outside India) to encourage people living worldly lives to seek moksha. But this is a paradox. There are four purusharthas - artha, dharma, kama and moksha. The first three complement each other and they apply to the majority of the population. In stark contrast, the fourth purushartha takes one in the opposite direction (no ambition, no desire, no attachment, etc.,). And this is why, moksha was for renunciates for they have given up the other three purusharthas - thus eliminating the conflict. The modern approach among non-Indian Hindus of pursuing other purusharthas along with moksha is a recipe for confusion. It is unlikely to lead the person anywhere.

In short, either follow the first three purusharthas (artha, kama, dharma) and do it well or else give them up and follow the fourth. Do not mix them up for they pull you in opposite directions.

There is also propriety - consisting of ideal social behavior of not giving into anger, kindness, etc. This really has nothing to do with religion or spirituality, but for some reason, it is often mixed up with them.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm failing miserably.

Oh sure, my temple attendance is up, the frequency of my spontaneous prayers is up, my mindfulness of the gods is at an all-time high (we called it "god intoxication" in another thread). But my level of patience, tolerance, compassion, joy, calmness, hope is so low it's probably reaching the Earth's mantle by now. That must be negating any progress I might make.

Very few Hindus actually do sadhana. Very few people know or understand that its possible to work on themselves. Most don't meditate, don't go to temple for real prayer, just as some obligatory rite, etc. We are all destined for moksha, and move along our own roads and paths.

Yes, Shiva is correct, it's not on the forefront of too many people\s consciousness, but at some point in time, in the reincarnation cycle, we do turn inward. In the meantime the other three goals keep us going along, quite happily.

Does the little kid who signs up for the after-school soccer (footlball) team have the goal of making it to the Olympic Games? Not likely.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Does the little kid who signs up for the after-school soccer (footlball) team have the goal of making it to the Olympic Games? Not likely.

Oh, I like this. A child plays for the sake of playing - or as we might think of it, Work for Work's sake, without the thought of a particular result. When the result is "good" (winning the game) the child may feel particularly elated, but both the winning and the losing team get a pizza party afterward***

*** Unless their parents are horrible people and take pee-wee soccer way too seriously.

 

[Vinayaka]

Oh, I like this. A child plays for the sake of playing - or as we might think of it, Work for Work's sake, without the thought of a particular result. When the result is "good" (winning the game) the child may feel particularly elated, but both the winning and the losing team get a pizza party afterward***

*** Unless their parents are horrible people and take pee-wee soccer way too seriously.

- And his skills develop, he gets better at communication, of being a team member, of learning how to lose, ultimately to see winning and losing as just inconsequential. So too with sadhana, bhakti, pilgrimage, etc. The skills develop. Later, much later, like 3 or 4 or 30 or 40 lifetimes, those seeds will bear fruit.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm failing miserably.

Oh sure, my temple attendance is up, the frequency of my spontaneous prayers is up, my mindfulness of the gods is at an all-time high (we called it "god intoxication" in another thread). But my level of patience, tolerance, compassion, joy, calmness, hope is so low it's probably reaching the Earth's mantle by now. That must be negating any progress I might make.

What can an old person give - advice. Be 'tatastha', be 'unattached', follow 'dharma'. Why have you not given your problems to deities so that you can be carefree? I did that and the deities stumbled under the burden. But at least my weight was gone. At time, we have to be selfish.

 

[Jainarayan]

Why have you not given your problems to deities so that you can be carefree?

I am attempting to do that. By saying "attempting", I mean it's a learning experience. I have a small framed printout of Bhagavad Gita 3.9 in my work cubicle, that I look at often, and try to keep in mind:

In this world all actions, unless they are done as an offering to God, become causes of bondage. Therefore, work for the sake of God without personal attachments.

I did that and the deities stumbled under the burden. But at least my weight was gone. At time, we have to be selfish.

I suppose it's a matter of surrendering, and really meaning it. I say these prayers and try to really mean it:

kāyena vācā manasendriyervā
buddhyātmanāvā prakrteh svabhāvāt |
karomi yadyat sakalam parasmai
nārāyanayeti samarpayāmi ||

Whatever I do with my body, speech, mind or with other senses of my body,
or with my intellect and soul or with my innate natural tendencies I offer
everything to Lord Narayana.

krishnāya vāsudevāya haraye paramatmane |
pranataha klesha nashāya govindāya namo namaha ||

Time and again I offer pranama unto Shri Krishna,
who is the son of Vasudeva, and the remover of
His devotees’ material attachments

 

[shivsomashekhar]

krishnāya vāsudevāya haraye paramatmane |
pranataha klesha nashāya govindāya namo namaha ||

Time and again I offer pranama unto Shri Krishna,
who is the son of Vasudeva, and the remover of
His devotees’ material attachments

I would translate klesha as grief/suffering. I do not know why the above translation reads klesha as material attachments.

But assuming it is material attachments, is that really what you want to pray for? Do you want to detach yourself from your family, friends, career, hobbies and everything else you like?

 

[Vinayaka]

Intermixing of the householder and sannyasin paths isn't healthy. One should make the decision at an early age, then stick to it, no? We can still know of the ultimate goal on an intellectual level, but to seek it actively isn't wise. Too many pitfalls, discouragement, confusion, false thinking, and more. This entire idea lead to the neo-advaita movement, where you get people who aren't ready thinking they are, or worse, pretending they are.

 

[Jainarayan]

I would translate klesha as grief/suffering. I do not know why the above translation reads klesha as material attachments.

But assuming it is material attachments, is that really what you want to pray for? Do you want to detach yourself from your family, friends, career, hobbies and everything else you like?

I know some of the transliterations and translations can be really off the beam. No, it's not those things themselves, but rather the stress, anxiety, worry and grief that those things can cause if you let them. And I have let them. I think there's nothing wrong with living the life we're given.