Proof of Islam?

[Trailblazer]

What, if anything, is delaying, obstructing, or counteracting this work and its rapid progress or immediate accomplishment?

One thing that is delaying it is the lack of workers. i.e. Baha'is. Another thing that is delaying it is the resistance to unity by others who would just as well continue with the status quo.

If God didn't want strife, what would be the cause of strife? If God didn't want something, what would impede God?

It does not matter what God wants, it only matters what people want and do, because God is not going to do the work for humans.

Mankind wants good for mankind, but God seems to want division, combat, differences, "vying", competition, war, struggle, opposition, dualities, contrasts.

No, God does not want division, combat, differences, "vying", competition, war, struggle, opposition, dualities, contrasts, that is what some people want, and God allows it because God does not interfere with the free will decisions people choose to make.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

One thing that is delaying it is the lack of workers. i.e. Baha'is. Another thing that is delaying it is the resistance to unity by others who would just as well continue with the status quo.

It does not matter what God wants, it only matters what people want and do, because God is not going to do the work for humans.

No, God does not want division, combat, differences, "vying", competition, war, struggle, opposition, dualities, contrasts, that is what some people want, and God allows it because God does not interfere with the free will decisions people choose to make.

Good defenses! Interesting stuff!

The God of Islam is "God of War" and "God of Slaves", so that if there is fighting and division, its God doing it. Its the same God as the God of the Bible, they manifest combat and bloodshed, it is the same God behind the war and conflict that Arjuna in the Mahabharata was urged into as well.

It is the War God of all the ancient civilizations.

Never has God said "I want, but its not happening", since God is the God whose desires ARE reality. Whatever God wants, IS, according to the scriptures. Did Baha'Ullah not even say such himself?

2:216
Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

Judges 9:23
And God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the leaders of Shechem, and the leaders of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech,

Deuteronomy 28:49-
"The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand
a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young.
They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined
(A lot of cannibalism follows, since God determines every aspect of your experience, including what you eat)
the LORD will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses.
The LORD will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed.
...
Deuteronomy 28:63-
Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess
Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods--gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known
Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the LORD will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart.
You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life.
In the morning you will say, "If only it were evening!" and in the evening, "If only it were morning!"--because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see.
The LORD will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you

Arjuna (Harun) Pleads like Muhammed not to war against his own beloved kinsmen:
"
I have no desire for victory, or for akingdom or pleasures. Of what use is a kingdom or pleasure or even life, if those for whose sake we desire these things—teachers, fathers, sons, grandfathers, uncles, in-laws, grandsons and others with family ties—are engaging in this battle, renouncing their wealth and their lives? Even if they were to kill me, I would not want to kill them, not even to become ruler of the three worlds. How much less for the earth alone? … We are prepared to kill our own relations out of greed for the pleasures of a kingdom. Better for me if the [Kauravas] were to attack me in battle and kill me unarmed andunresisting.’ "

To Arjuna:
https://biblio.ugent.be/publication/8545938/file/8549049.pdf

"
proceeds to shameArjuna by calling his meltdown a ‘weakness in a time of crisis’, which is ‘mean and unworthy’ of him. He urges Arjuna to ‘arise with a brave heart and destroy his enemy.’ Refusing to fight, Krishna warns, will lead to loss of honor, which is worse than death. Arjuna will lose the respect of others and be ridiculed by his enemies, who will taunt him and call him a coward. ‘What could be more painful than this?’

Krishna continues, ‘Considering your dharma, you should not vacillate. For a warrior, nothing is higher than a war against evil’. Such a war should delight Arjuna, for it will guarantee him a place in heaven. If Arjuna dies in battle, he will attain heaven; if he wins, he will enjoy the earth. "

The Bhagavad Gita Revisited - Part 2

9:14
Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people

3:154
Then, after grief, He sent down security for you. As slumber did it overcome a party of you, while (the other) party, who were anxious on their own account, thought wrongly of Allah, the thought of ignorance. They said: Have we any part in the cause? Say (O Muhammad): The cause belongeth wholly to Allah. They hide within themselves (a thought) which they reveal not unto thee, saying: Had we had any part in the cause we should not have been slain here. Say: Even though ye had been in your houses, those appointed to be slain would have gone forth to the places where they were to lie. (All this hath been) in order that Allah might make manifest as by trial what is in your breasts and prove what is in your hearts. Allah is Aware of what is hidden in the breasts (of men).

5:48
And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.

 

[Trailblazer]

Never has God said "I want, but its not happening", since God is the God whose desires ARE reality. Whatever God wants, IS, according to the scriptures. Did Baha'Ullah not even say such himself?

That is true, God is All-Powerful so everything that happens is in keeping with God's Will, so in that sense whatever happens is God's Will.

“God witnesseth that there is no God but Him, the Gracious, the Best-Beloved. All grace and bounty are His. To whomsoever He will He giveth whatsoever is His wish. He, verily, is the All-Powerful, the Almighty, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.” Gleanings, p. 73

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284

But it is God's Will not to interfere with human free will decisions and that is why there was a Holocaust. God did not Will it Himself, humans willed it, it but God allowed it to take place. As such, it was in keeping with God's Will, but God could have stopped it if He had chosen to, since God is All-Powerful.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

That is true, God is All-Powerful so everything that happens is in keeping with God's Will, so in that sense whatever happens is God's Will.

“God witnesseth that there is no God but Him, the Gracious, the Best-Beloved. All grace and bounty are His. To whomsoever He will He giveth whatsoever is His wish. He, verily, is the All-Powerful, the Almighty, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.” Gleanings, p. 73

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284

But it is God's Will not to interfere with human free will decisions and that is why there was a Holocaust. God did not Will it Himself, humans willed it, it but God allowed it to take place. As such, it was in keeping with God's Will, but God could have stopped it if He had chosen to, since God is All-Powerful.

That is weird, are those your ideas or are they written in Baha'Ullah's teachings?

It appears to me Baha'Ullah is saying more Islamic styled things, that deaths are determined specifically by God in every detail, that the Holocaust, even Bab's killing spree if its true what Duncan said, were determined and controlled wholly by Allah, who struck who and where and how and when exactly in every detail is God generating the horror show.

Did Baha'Ullah say something contradictory to this? It appears what you pasted from his writing is in accord with the scriptures, which are all about God controlling every detail and "free will" being an impression and illusion. There is no such thing.

The Qur'an says even what you will and that you will such or the other is God's will, there are no other minds, forces, powers truly, nothing determines what occurs or influences what is brought about, Allah is doing it from the get go.

What your ideas sound more like are Deistic with a Remote/Distsnt God. These ideas are popular in modern Christianity, modern Islam, modern silliness of various sorts.

Hard Determinism for the Atheists, Occasionalism for the Muslims, and God's Calvinistic Grace for the Christians in a Berkeleyan Imaginal Reality.

Did Baha'Ullah ever say that God doesn't do everything? The Qur'an and its predecessors like the Bible and Bhagavad Gita and other scriptures seem to make it clear that God literally does everything, determining all. That the "Chance" which the Atheists say determines all things, like where the dog defecates, is in fact another name of God who is the sole determiner.

76:30
But ye will not, except as Allah wills; for Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

28:68
Thy Lord bringeth to pass what He willeth and chooseth. They have never any choice. Glorified be Allah and Exalted above all that they associate (with Him)!

Even though Duncan says the Bahai aren't Muslims due to this or that, so far what you've shown from Baha'Ullah's statements and likely practices show he was saying things similar to the Qur'an and practicing religion like a kind of Muslim, or was basically a Muslim, where did he differ?

The idea that "Muhammed is the last messenger and no further messages of use will ever occur" doesn't seem particularly important to me or wholly disqualifying one from being a practicing Muslim if a person believes in a model of God similar to that presented in the Qur'an, which your quotes indicate he was promoting, and worship God in the ancient fashion which is carried on by Islam but existed across the whole world.

The further additions being that one very importantly does good deeds and gives in charity, then fasts (especially during Ramadan or catches the days when they are able and feeds the poor) and visits what some conspiracy theorists say is the Shiva Temple or Ling or something in Becca (Mecca) if one is able.

How do the Bahai practice the 5 pillars and what differentiated Baha'Ullah or any of his daily practices or beliefs presented in his writings from the Qur'an or Islam?

Where do your Free Will ideas come from, why do you believe in such? What about God as the Source of All Evil?

The Qur'an says "All is from Allah", whether good or evil or the evil to and in yourselves.

Lamentations 3:38
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come?

Isaiah 45:7
I form light and create darkness; I bring prosperity and create evil. I, the LORD, do all these things.

Deteronony 32:39
Look now; I myself am he! There is no other god but me! I am the one who kills and gives life; I am the one who wounds and heals; no one can be rescued from my powerful hand!

57:22
No evil befalls on the earth nor in your own selves (nafs), but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah:

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Cool! Can you describe each faction or type so far as you understand it and where each would fit in? Like, what tree would one like myself be categorized as? Similar to "Am I Slytherin or Gryffindor? Ravenclaw or God-forbid, Hufflepuff"?

I did describe a little bit of where they fit in as four directions and three levels (There are twelve positions within the four).


God will decide where to plant you according to the law.

Three levels. Pomegranate tree, fig tree, apple tree.


The fig is in Eden. Adam and Eve were fig trees (the serpent is also in Eden the place of Dust).

Brass - Silver - Gold
Straw - Dust - Stubble.
Pomegranate - Fig - Apple



The Pomegranate tree is planted in a place known as Hell.

And a chapiter of brass was upon it; and the height of one chapiter was five cubits, with network and pomegranates upon the chapiters round about, all of brass. The second pillar also and the pomegranates were like unto these. Jeremiah 52:22



Asking me what kind of tree you are is exactly the same as asking me what kind of animal you are.




Thus do We explain the signs in detail: that the way of the sinners may be shown up. 6:55

Say. "The truth is from your Lord" Let him who will believe, and let him who will reject it: For the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose smoke and flames, like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable couch to recline on! Quran 18:29

Many are the jinns and men we have made for hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle, nay more misguided: for they are heedless of warning. Quran 7:179


Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle; nay, they are worse astray in path. 25:44

Eat for yourselves and pasture your cattle: verily in this are signs for men endued with understanding. 20:54




And thou shalt make fifty taches of brass, and put the taches into the loops, and couple the tent together, that it may be one. Exodus 26:11

And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. Genesis 4:20

For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. Psalm 84:10



And ye shall be sorted out into three classes. 56:7

And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD: Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Ezekiel 34:17




Some may have thought this is a violent Quran verse:

Say. "The truth is from your Lord" Let him who will believe, and let him who will reject it: For the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose smoke and flames, like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable couch to recline on! Quran 18:29

I think the messengers speak in very precise detail. They are not vague.
The words speak the wheel of the law.​

 

[Trailblazer]

Did Baha'Ullah say something contradictory to this? It appears what you pasted from his writing is in accord with the scriptures, which are all about God controlling every detail and "free will" being an impression and illusion. There is no such thing.

No, free will is not an illusion but at the end of the day God calls all the shots because His Will can override our free will choices. Also, free will and predestination are intermingled so we can influence God's decree (our fate) by prayer and entreaty if it is an impending decree, but if God irrevocably decreed something we cannot alter our fate and God will not alter it even though He can. I think this passage should help you understand just how much we are at the mercy of God's Will:

“O thou who art the fruit of My Tree and the leaf thereof! On thee be My glory and My mercy. Let not thine heart grieve over what hath befallen thee. Wert thou to scan the pages of the Book of Life, thou wouldst, most certainly, discover that which would dissipate thy sorrows and dissolve thine anguish.

Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 132-133

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Thank you so much to both of you for your replies. If the fig is in paradise, the pomegranate in hell, what was the other one or two and their areas? Is Paradise South and Hell North? Which are East and West? Any other quotes that may be helpful or illustrative will be appreciative, perhaps a little history on how you came by these notions? Did someone teach you or did you just read the scriptures carefully or what?

Same goes for any more quotes from Baha'Ullah and where you are acquiring these quotes and pasting them from? Like the website or whatever with his translated writings.

Any mystical stuff I'd like to see and hear from both of you please!

As for the prayers, I thought God was unconditioned, so that when we pray its God putting the words in our mouth and animating the whole process.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thank you so much to both of you for your replies. If the fig is in paradise, the pomegranate in hell, what was the other one or two and their areas? Is Paradise South and Hell North? Which are East and West? Any other quotes that may be helpful or illustrative will be appreciative, perhaps a little history on how you came by these notions? Did someone teach you or did you just read the scriptures carefully or what?

I am not sure which scriptures you are referring to, but here is a passage I like about Paradise and Hell:

“The fifth question concerneth the Bridge of Ṣiráṭ, Paradise, and Hell. The Prophets of God have come in truth and have spoken the truth. Whatsoever the Messenger of God hath announced hath been and will be made manifest. The world is established upon the foundations of reward and punishment. Knowledge and understanding have ever affirmed and will continue to affirm the reality of Paradise and Hell, for reward and punishment require their existence. Paradise signifieth first and foremost the good-pleasure of God. Whosoever attaineth His good-pleasure is reckoned and recorded among the inhabitants of the most exalted paradise and will attain, after the ascension of his soul, that which pen and ink are powerless to describe. For them that are endued with insight and have fixed their gaze upon the Most Sublime Vision, the Bridge, the Balance, Paradise, Hellfire, and all that hath been mentioned and recorded in the Sacred Scriptures are clear and manifest. At the time of the appearance and manifestation of the rays of the Daystar of Truth, all occupy the same station. God then proclaimeth that which He willeth, and whoso heareth His call and acknowledgeth His truth is accounted among the inhabitants of Paradise. Such a soul hath traversed the Bridge, the Balance, and all that hath been recorded regarding the Day of Resurrection, and hath reached his destination.”
The Tabernacle of Unity, Tablet of the Seven Questions, pp. 61- 63

I also like this passage from the Bab:

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise. Thus and thus alone should be the worship which befitteth the one True God. Shouldst thou worship Him because of fear, this would be unseemly in the sanctified Court of His presence, and could not be regarded as an act by thee dedicated to the Oneness of His Being. Or if thy gaze should be on paradise, and thou shouldst worship Him while cherishing such a hope, thou wouldst make God’s creation a partner with Him, notwithstanding the fact that paradise is desired by men.

Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 77-78

Same goes for any more quotes from Baha'Ullah and where you are acquiring these quotes and pasting them from? Like the website or whatever with his translated writings.

All the the Writings of Baha’u’llah that have thus far been translated into English are in the Baha’i Reference Library online:

The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

Any mystical stuff I'd like to see and hear from both of you please!

One of the most mystical works of Baha’u’llah is called The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys

Baha’i Reference Library online new version is fully downloadable, but I prefer the older version linked to above because it is easier to read and search online.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I am not sure which scriptures you are referring to, but here is a passage I like about Paradise and Hell:

“The fifth question concerneth the Bridge of Ṣiráṭ, Paradise, and Hell. The Prophets of God have come in truth and have spoken the truth. Whatsoever the Messenger of God hath announced hath been and will be made manifest. The world is established upon the foundations of reward and punishment. Knowledge and understanding have ever affirmed and will continue to affirm the reality of Paradise and Hell, for reward and punishment require their existence. Paradise signifieth first and foremost the good-pleasure of God. Whosoever attaineth His good-pleasure is reckoned and recorded among the inhabitants of the most exalted paradise and will attain, after the ascension of his soul, that which pen and ink are powerless to describe. For them that are endued with insight and have fixed their gaze upon the Most Sublime Vision, the Bridge, the Balance, Paradise, Hellfire, and all that hath been mentioned and recorded in the Sacred Scriptures are clear and manifest. At the time of the appearance and manifestation of the rays of the Daystar of Truth, all occupy the same station. God then proclaimeth that which He willeth, and whoso heareth His call and acknowledgeth His truth is accounted among the inhabitants of Paradise. Such a soul hath traversed the Bridge, the Balance, and all that hath been recorded regarding the Day of Resurrection, and hath reached his destination.”
The Tabernacle of Unity, Tablet of the Seven Questions, pp. 61- 63

I also like this passage from the Bab:

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise. Thus and thus alone should be the worship which befitteth the one True God. Shouldst thou worship Him because of fear, this would be unseemly in the sanctified Court of His presence, and could not be regarded as an act by thee dedicated to the Oneness of His Being. Or if thy gaze should be on paradise, and thou shouldst worship Him while cherishing such a hope, thou wouldst make God’s creation a partner with Him, notwithstanding the fact that paradise is desired by men.

Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 77-78

All the the Writings of Baha’u’llah that have thus far been translated into English are in the Baha’i Reference Library online:

The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

One of the most mystical works of Baha’u’llah is called The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys

Baha’i Reference Library online new version is fully downloadable, but I prefer the older version linked to above because it is easier to read and search online.

Awesome links! Thank you so much! I really liked that Bab quote too!

 

[WonderingWorrier]

If the fig is in paradise, the pomegranate in hell, what was the other one or two and their areas? Is Paradise South and Hell North? Which are East and West? Any other quotes that may be helpful or illustrative will be appreciative, perhaps a little history on how you came by these notions? Did someone teach you or did you just read the scriptures carefully or what?

I am new to religious texts. I was neutral and neither believer or unbeliever.
Until I had a series of very strange experiences and then I started reading a bible.
I was reading it as if I did not know how to read. That is how I listened to the words.

I listened and a language appeared out of the words.

I am now a believer. I have no doubt the Torah, Gospels, and Quran is speaking truth.


Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John 8:43



What I heard in the old testament was confirmed in the new testament and then confirmed in the Quran and other texts. I now also believe many legends, myths, fairytales.


I now know why unbelievers cant find evidence of things spoken of. That's because scientists don't know where to look. For example I can tell you exactly where on earth to find evidence of giants if you are interested.


If you were listening carefully to what I have been trying to show this whole time then you should already know the answer to your question of directions.

And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. Deuteronomy 28:23


The heaven above the earth is brass. The heaven above brass is silver. The heaven above silver is gold.

South: Iron
North: Brass
West: Silver
East: Gold



If you were listening to my last post then maybe now you will be able to gain a different understanding of these other verses:

Now therefore the wheat, and the barley, the oil, and the wine, which my lord hath spoken of, let him send unto his servants: Chronicles 2:15


And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along. Judges 7:13


God speaks many things hoping people might stop and think.
Maybe we just don't understand the words and should try to listen more carefully.


But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own pi ss with you? 2 Kings 18:27


And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. Ezekiel 4:12

Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith. Ezekiel 4:15


Many will not understand that people can be cattle according to the law.
But there are some closer to understanding thinking they are the sheep. Even though they might actually be cattle or goats.


You say there are many horrible things in the bible. And I know many people just ignore them and focus on what they think are the good sayings. Cherry picking verses to suit themselves.

Perhaps people are just not listening carefully.


To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. Proverbs 1:6


If you still don't get it then l can keep repeating in different ways until you understand what I am trying to show.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I am new to religious texts. I was neutral and neither believer or unbeliever.
Until I had a series of very strange experiences and then I started reading a bible.
I was reading it as if I did not know how to read. That is how I listened to the words.

I listened and a language appeared out of the words.

I am now a believer. I have no doubt the Torah, Gospels, and Quran is speaking truth.


Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. John 8:43



What I heard in the old testament was confirmed in the new testament and then confirmed in the Quran and other texts. I now also believe many legends, myths, fairytales.


I now know why unbelievers cant find evidence of things spoken of. That's because scientists don't know where to look. For example I can tell you exactly where on earth to find evidence of giants if you are interested.


If you were listening carefully to what I have been trying to show this whole time then you should already know the answer to your question of directions.

And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. Deuteronomy 28:23


The heaven above the earth is brass. The heaven above brass is silver. The heaven above silver is gold.

South: Iron
North: Brass
West: Silver
East: Gold



If you were listening to my last post then maybe now you will be able to gain a different understanding of these other verses:

Now therefore the wheat, and the barley, the oil, and the wine, which my lord hath spoken of, let him send unto his servants: Chronicles 2:15


And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along. Judges 7:13


God speaks many things hoping people might stop and think.
Maybe we just don't understand the words and should try to listen more carefully.


But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own pi ss with you? 2 Kings 18:27


And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. Ezekiel 4:12

Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith. Ezekiel 4:15


Many will not understand that people can be cattle according to the law.
But there are some closer to understanding thinking they are the sheep. Even though they might actually be cattle or goats.


You say there are many horrible things in the bible. And I know many people just ignore them and focus on what they think are the good sayings. Cherry picking verses to suit themselves.

Perhaps people are just not listening carefully.


To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. Proverbs 1:6


If you still don't get it then l can keep repeating in different ways until you understand what I am trying to show.

What was the weird experience and the events leading up to it and what occurred after and at each step and leading to the books and what books and verses first? If you don't want to write it here you can email me the entire story please at [email protected], when did this happen exactly? What were any themes going around or popping up, images or flashes in your mind or dreams? What age were you? All this is extremely important to me and what you are experiencing is very special and I'd like to know absolutely everything about it, all that has been understood by you so far, and updated as more occurs, so please keep in touch!

 

[Trailblazer]

Awesome links! Thank you so much! I really liked that Bab quote too!

If you liked that Bab quote, I think you will like this one too. Of course, it has a particular significance to me since I am a Bahai but I want to share it anyway.

God desireth not to straiten the heart of anyone is a teaching is Islam, is it not?
I have been doing some reading and I am seeing more and more similarities between the Qur'an and the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

“CONSIDER how at the time of the appearance of every Revelation, those who open their hearts to the Author of that Revelation recognize the Truth, while the hearts of those who fail to apprehend the Truth are straitened by reason of their shutting themselves out from Him. However, openness of heart is bestowed by God upon both parties alike. God desireth not to straiten the heart of anyone, be it even an ant, how much less the heart of a superior creature, except when he suffereth himself to be wrapt in veils, for God is the Creator of all things.

Wert thou to open the heart of a single soul by helping him to embrace the Cause of Him Whom God shall make manifest, thine inmost being would be filled with the inspirations of that august Name. It devolveth upon you, therefore, to perform this task in the Days of Resurrection, inasmuch as most people are helpless, and wert thou to open their hearts and dispel their doubts, they would gain admittance into the Faith of God. Therefore, manifest thou this attribute to the utmost of thine ability in the days of Him Whom God shall make manifest. For indeed if thou dost open the heart of a person for His sake, better will it be for thee than every virtuous deed; since deeds are secondary to faith in Him and certitude in His Reality. XVII, 15.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 133

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

If you liked that Bab quote, I think you will like this one too. Of course, it has a particular significance to me since I am a Bahai but I want to share it anyway.

God desireth not to straiten the heart of anyone is a teaching is Islam, is it not?
I have been doing some reading and I am seeing more and more similarities between the Qur'an and the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

“CONSIDER how at the time of the appearance of every Revelation, those who open their hearts to the Author of that Revelation recognize the Truth, while the hearts of those who fail to apprehend the Truth are straitened by reason of their shutting themselves out from Him. However, openness of heart is bestowed by God upon both parties alike. God desireth not to straiten the heart of anyone, be it even an ant, how much less the heart of a superior creature, except when he suffereth himself to be wrapt in veils, for God is the Creator of all things.

Wert thou to open the heart of a single soul by helping him to embrace the Cause of Him Whom God shall make manifest, thine inmost being would be filled with the inspirations of that august Name. It devolveth upon you, therefore, to perform this task in the Days of Resurrection, inasmuch as most people are helpless, and wert thou to open their hearts and dispel their doubts, they would gain admittance into the Faith of God. Therefore, manifest thou this attribute to the utmost of thine ability in the days of Him Whom God shall make manifest. For indeed if thou dost open the heart of a person for His sake, better will it be for thee than every virtuous deed; since deeds are secondary to faith in Him and certitude in His Reality. XVII, 15.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 133

Have you been reading the Qur'an? I think you'll find a huge amount of similarities and reasons why it was retained as a special reference.

 

[Trailblazer]

Have you been reading the Qur'an? I think you'll find a huge amount of similarities and reasons why it was retained as a special reference.

No, I have not had time to read the Qur'an yet but I have been reading where Baha'u'llah quotes the Qur'an, and he quotes it a lot in The Kitáb-i-Íqán.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. why would you think that the sages of old and by what amazing and miraculous means could they EVER determine or have anything relevant or scientific or scientifically accurate to say?

Sages of old were stages in advancement of our knowledge. I do not respect them for any miracle that they might have been credited with. We know more about the universe than they ever knew. But we may not have got to the knowledge that we now have without them, take for example Pythogoras or Archemedes.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Sages of old were stages in advancement of our knowledge. I do not respect them for any miracle that they might have been credited with. We know more about the universe than they ever knew. But we may not have got to the knowledge that we now have without them, take for example Pythogoras or Archemedes.

You're right! Good answer! Thank you so much for your patience!

 

[WonderingWorrier]

What was the weird experience and the events leading up to it and what occurred after and at each step and leading to the books and what books and verses first? If you don't want to write it here you can email me the entire story please at [email protected], when did this happen exactly? What were any themes going around or popping up, images or flashes in your mind or dreams? What age were you? All this is extremely important to me and what you are experiencing is very special and I'd like to know absolutely everything about it, all that has been understood by you so far, and updated as more occurs, so please keep in touch!

Ok. There are things I have never told anyone so this is hard for me to do. This is going to sound crazy.
I was 33 and watching tv at a friends house. I got up to go to the kitchen and on my way a light appeared from above me. It was not coming through the ceiling it was coming from a point in the air a bit below the ceiling. I was looking at the rays of light coming down on me thinking something is wrong with me and I am hallucinating. That's when I had the strangest thought I've ever had. I am not in my body.

I dropped to my knees and my forehead went to the ground. I then covered the sides of my head with the sides of my arms and began screaming in absolute fear. I didn't know someone could make a sound like that. Extreme fear makes a horrible sound.

When I see Muslims at prayer it reminds me of that experience and I cry. Not crying for myself. I can relate my experience to what they are doing. When I see muslims also in that position I feel a lot of emotion.

All I could think while screaming was I have to get back. I have to get back. I have to get back. When I eventually came back with a jolt my friend was laughing at me. I didn't talk for a couple of days then told my friend what happened. I was told the laughing was not because of the jolt it was because my friend had been watching me with my eyes open but looked like nobody was home.


Ive lost track of time since that experience. I am now 39. A lot has happened since then. It is difficult to have your sense of reality shattered. I think it was a few years later that I started removing my consciousness from the world. I would go into a state of nothingness. No sight, no hearing, no feeling, no thoughts. Just darkness. I went inside myself. I think it is what people refer to as meditation. It was while in this state that I saw a light. A white light that was actually the colours of the rainbow continually folding in on itself. The light opened my eyes and I went into another dimension.

The place was a forest. And over these past years I have gone there a few times. I spoke to people there that I didn't know but one of the people that came to me was a friend who had died.

After we talked for a while I asked him "Do you know?". He said yes he knows he is dead but he is happy. I asked him how do I know we are actually having this conversation. He thought and then just said one word: Adele (I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean).

After that I saw an old woman and walked over and said hello. She looked at me surprised saying what sounded like two words not english: Arash (something). I said the first thing that came to mind: Shaman? She smiled at me and I just said no I'm not and walked away.

I later had an encounter with an angry man that attacked me. He disappeared as he touched me. After that a white horse charged at me and also disappeared as it touched me. After that a little girl came to me there and told me about a man on earth who now knows about me. She then also told me there is a horse in me, she can see it (I thought was freaky) and I walked away.

After that I heard a voice speaking inside my head. It was saying sentence after sentence and I know by the tone of his voice that it was very important things he was saying to me. But I couldn't understand as it was not in english. There was one word that really sunk into me as it was really important. The word was Slagtog.

After that I tried to find a translation for that word and found it as an old Swedish word. That would also fit his accent that the voice was speaking too. The translation I found had a few meanings including freedom, liberty, decode, decipher, a bridle for a horse, a bridle for a Loshast.

I looked for translation for Loshast (had couple dots above the o) It said a loose horse. A horse that goes with the grain and is unbiased. I've never heard of a biased horse and thought that's a strange translation.

After that I started reading a bible. Word connections would stand out and I would shrug them off as coincidence but it kept happening. The words kept connecting to other words.

I was skeptical about the other world within my mind. It was scriptures that made me a believer. While reading scriptures I tried to go back to the forest but I kept getting pushed back by a sound. I tried a few times. It was like wind and water rushing so much that it was making a vibrating hum sound. It was like a horn being blown.

For a long time I have been listening to the conversations of believers and unbelievers. I didn't want to say anything. I don't want to be a teacher. I can be wrong. People should be able to find their own way and believe what they want to believe.


These Quran verses bother me:

And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know what it is. 2:42

Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge? 3:71

The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know. 2:146



So I feel I should try to show my interpretation to someone.​

I know people look for signs and miracles like what is spoken of within the scriptures. They look for evidence and find none. But the scriptures themselves are the evidence. They contain the miracles. The signs and miracles happen as the words connect to each other and understanding is reached. The message is the miracle. The bible is the miracle. The Quran is the miracle.


And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. Mark 8:12

They say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "Allah hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not. Quran 6:37

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Ok. There are things I have never told anyone so this is hard for me to do. This is going to sound crazy.
I was 33 and watching tv at a friends house. I got up to go to the kitchen and on my way a light appeared from above me. It was not coming through the ceiling it was coming from a point in the air a bit below the ceiling. I was looking at the rays of light coming down on me thinking something is wrong with me and I am hallucinating. That's when I had the strangest thought I've ever had. I am not in my body.

I dropped to my knees and my forehead went to the ground. I then covered the sides of my head with the sides of my arms and began screaming in absolute fear. I didn't know someone could make a sound like that. Extreme fear makes a horrible sound.

When I see Muslims at prayer it reminds me of that experience and I cry. Not crying for myself. I can relate my experience to what they are doing. When I see muslims also in that position I feel a lot of emotion.

All I could think while screaming was I have to get back. I have to get back. I have to get back. When I eventually came back with a jolt my friend was laughing at me. I didn't talk for a couple of days then told my friend what happened. I was told the laughing was not because of the jolt it was because my friend had been watching me with my eyes open but looked like nobody was home.


Ive lost track of time since that experience. I am now 39. A lot has happened since then. It is difficult to have your sense of reality shattered. I think it was a few years later that I started removing my consciousness from the world. I would go into a state of nothingness. No sight, no hearing, no feeling, no thoughts. Just darkness. I went inside myself. I think it is what people refer to as meditation. It was while in this state that I saw a light. A white light that was actually the colours of the rainbow continually folding in on itself. The light opened my eyes and I went into another dimension.

The place was a forest. And over these past years I have gone there a few times. I spoke to people there that I didn't know but one of the people that came to me was a friend who had died.

After we talked for a while I asked him "Do you know?". He said yes he knows he is dead but he is happy. I asked him how do I know we are actually having this conversation. He thought and then just said one word: Adele (I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean).

After that I saw an old woman and walked over and said hello. She looked at me surprised saying what sounded like two words not english: Arash (something). I said the first thing that came to mind: Shaman? She smiled at me and I just said no I'm not and walked away.

I later had an encounter with an angry man that attacked me. He disappeared as he touched me. After that a white horse charged at me and also disappeared as it touched me. After that a little girl came to me there and told me about a man on earth who now knows about me. She then also told me there is a horse in me, she can see it (I thought was freaky) and I walked away.

After that I heard a voice speaking inside my head. It was saying sentence after sentence and I know by the tone of his voice that it was very important things he was saying to me. But I couldn't understand as it was not in english. There was one word that really sunk into me as it was really important. The word was Slagtog.

After that I tried to find a translation for that word and found it as an old Swedish word. That would also fit his accent that the voice was speaking too. The translation I found had a few meanings including freedom, liberty, decode, decipher, a bridle for a horse, a bridle for a Loshast.

I looked for translation for Loshast (had couple dots above the o) It said a loose horse. A horse that goes with the grain and is unbiased. I've never heard of a biased horse and thought that's a strange translation.

After that I started reading a bible. Word connections would stand out and I would shrug them off as coincidence but it kept happening. The words kept connecting to other words.

I was skeptical about the other world within my mind. It was scriptures that made me a believer. While reading scriptures I tried to go back to the forest but I kept getting pushed back by a sound. I tried a few times. It was like wind and water rushing so much that it was making a vibrating hum sound. It was like a horn being blown.

For a long time I have been listening to the conversations of believers and unbelievers. I didn't want to say anything. I don't want to be a teacher. I can be wrong. People should be able to find their own way and believe what they want to believe.


These Quran verses bother me:

And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know what it is. 2:42

Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge? 3:71

The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know. 2:146



So I feel I should try to show my interpretation to someone.​

I know people look for signs and miracles like what is spoken of within the scriptures. They look for evidence and find none. But the scriptures themselves are the evidence. They contain the miracles. The signs and miracles happen as the words connect to each other and understanding is reached. The message is the miracle. The bible is the miracle. The Quran is the miracle.


And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. Mark 8:12

They say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "Allah hath certainly power to send down a sign: but most of them understand not. Quran 6:37

Yeah, the Qur'an says or it is an official belief of Muslims that the Qur'an itself is the miracle.

I don't think anything you've said sounds crazy, it matches up with the experiences and stories of thousands of people from around the world who have reported these things to me. Thank you so much for writing it out.

I also saw what you described just the other day in a film where a person touched someone and disappeared, entering them, so the horse for example was what the little girl claimed was inside you, as far as I would take it, its a positive symbol and sign representing being "ridden" by inspiration.

"white light that was actually the colours of the rainbow continually folding in on itself."

Can you describe this a little more and the forest and what the figures looked like and were wearing?

Like was it one color at a time that would fold into itself? How big did the shape seem and what shape was it? Anything else you can write to me here or via my email if anyone starts bothering you here. That posture of the kowtow or prostration called sujood or sajdah or dogeza even is considered the highest expression if submission and fear, people described as falling into it at the end when the terror is upon them. What you've experienced is extremely special stuff, and its still happening? What were the conditions around that time when you were 33 when it happened? I'm 33 now and my birthday is October 27.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Something I wrote on Youtube to some guy with an Arab-ish username saying "god doesn't want you wearing clothes of the other sex" or something.

I wrote:

"
What exactly was your idea in writing this? This "man to woman" idea is only an issue in cultures where there were major differences developed in appearance, most of the people in the past dressed almost identically with long tunics and garbs and wraps that were almost identical. The Qur'an makes no mention as far as I am aware of any great difference in the appearance of men and women and the Islamic culture was long viewed by the West as effeminate due to the same sort of garbs being worn by almost all the people regardless of age or sex. The Bible is the only book I know of which mentions that men should not look like women or dress like women, which perhaps may be mentioned in Hadiths that I am not familiar with, but since most Muslims wore clothes nearly identically between sexes, it never seemed to be brought up as an issue. You can even look at Persian, Indian, Turkish art of the vast Islamic Empires and see how similar the men and women look and their clothing as well. So, this strangeness or issue wasn't even thought of much because they had not developed this sort of culture of "men wear this, women wear this".

The Hadith reccomends measures which would also be considered "metro-sexual" or effeminate and unnatural as part of the natural Fitrah, such as shaved off pubic hairs.

The Arabs and Muslims often colored their hair with hennah (bright red color), had eye liner of kohl (an ingredient and practice not dissimilar to modern application of eye liner), they trimmed, shaved, and maintained their beards and mustaches, some removed their mustaches, some removed their beards and kept their mustaches, some removed both, some removed all body hair and armpit hair at the very least. Some had their hair long, some short, some shaved off entirely. It was a fashion of Early Muslim Males to braid their hair in thick braids which can be seen as maintained in some bedouin tribes early pictures into the modern era.

These men were to the eyes of outsiders, or modern people, hard to distinguish from women, as many could not grow long beards even. So they had long braids of hair and wore clothes resembling skirts. That is also why, if you look up the term Termagant, medieval audiences misunderstood depictions meant to resemble a Sultan as that of a shrewish nagging bossy female due to the clothing and appearance which was more typical of the clothes worn by women at that period.

So this is an issue which should not be of a major concern overall and intention is more important and context.

Homosexuality is much more strongly condemned and its likely female appearance intended by men to attract males for sexual intercourse or sex acts was what the issue was ever being made about most of all. The notion of females acting vastly different from males is a mainly Victorian tradition where the differences in this culture had reached a height and people have been dealing with the fallout of Victorian ideas for a while, as it also coincided with widespread Imperialism and Colonialism and Western Victorian standards heavily influencing the world.
"

 

[Muffled]

Your belief does not make that a reality.

I believe I have a great foundation in the Word of God supporting that belief.