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Proof of the supernatural

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TheGunShoj

Active Member
Most naturalists do.
The natural explanation isn't really the more probable theory, specially if bias is the choice of reason and not actually considering all options.
Its as you said, juts being bias, right?

Yes it is. How can something which is not proven to exist ever be a more plausible explanation over something that does exist? It's laughable.

Secondly. How did you get from her having these visions of the number and winning to God? At best you have an unexplained phenomenon, which could be supernatural. But it's at this point you need to investigate and learn the actual truth. This sounds like one big argument from ignorance. 30 years ago this thing happened and you assumed that it was God because you couldn't think of anything else, which strengthened your belief in him.

I have no clue what the answer is because this is some story that I'm reading online from a guy who I don't know who is recanting this experience from 30 years ago. There are way too many variables and unknowns to give a proper answer. But you shouldn't just assume an answer because you don't know what really happened.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Again, it is a very simple story, none of your examples of misremembering are even relevant to the meat of the story and a simple google will reveal the payout on a dollar bet.
Like I said, those were just examples of things you could be misremembering. You asked for examples, and I gave them to you.

In my eyes, you are completely failing to justify that I am misremembering and what I could be wrong about that would change anything about the meat of the story.
Problem is, you're failing to justify your story at all. I've proposed several possible explanation that do not evoke a supernatural explanation whatsoever. The onus is now on you to demonstrate how your claim is accurate, and how you can reasonably attribute it to a supernatural cause.

Again, just because it could happen doesn't mean its justification that it is true.
But the exact same can be said of your claim itself. So the question now is: how do we go about determining which is more accurate?

You could very well be an ax murderer, here to find victims.
Did I just prove anything and where is the relevance?
That there are sickos on the web?
How would that be justification to think you may be a sicko murderer?
I don't think you're in a position to talk about justification of claims when you have yet to present a single shred of evidence that absolutely anything you have said is actually true yet. The burden is on you to demonstrate your story as being true, if that is indeed what you want to do. You merely asked for other possible explanations, and I gave you them. I cannot test my alternative explanations because you've given me no facts with which to test. It is purely your word, and I cannot test your word - I can only question it.

It is only unlikely in your eyes.
And the eyes of most people responding to this thread. Not that it's relevant.

The story itself is very likely true as it is not true.
How on earth do you determine that your claim is just as likely true as not? How can you demonstrate that? To me, it seems clearly obvious that it is far more likely to be false than true by its very nature.

In your position, you cant claim either to have more weight as the true premise.
Your opinion does nothing to the story itself, the story remains true, because it happened.
That's not how logic works. The story requires a huge number of highly unlikely events to occur, and depends entirely on several factors that cannot possibly be verified. To any rational assessment of the situation, the story is most likely false until it is demonstrated to be true. That is how logic works.

Exactly, but it still does nothing to the actual story and is just your opinion.
Again, your story is just your opinion as well. We're at an impasse. The onus is on you to demonstrate the veracity of your claim.

I hope you are not suggesting because I cant prove it to you, it concludes it didn't happen.
That is a fallacy.
No. I'm just saying that because you can't prove it to me or demonstrate it to me in any objective way whatsoever, I have no good reason to conclude that your story is true.

Hence the reason why Historians believe in the Jesus thing.
I think the consensus is that "some guy named Jesus existed", but there isn't much that has actually been verified beyond that.

Those that were with him left a huge mark on the world still evident today.
So did the work of the Greek Gods. Doesn't make them real.

I assume if you were with me when I talked to her and seen what my story states, it may change your views on the supernatural.
Would it have?
Or would you reason it as coincidence to yourself?
How can I possibly assess that? I'd have no way of knowing. Can you please present some evidence?

I fail to see why you being bias makes sense as being logical.
People being wrong, doesn't follow that people ARE wrong.
The only "bias" I have is toward an objective assessment of reality. Until something is sufficiently demonstrated to be true, I have no good reason to assume that it is. That's not bias - that's logic.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Bias and logical fallacy.
No, it isn't. It isn't a fallacy to operate under the assumption that a person is wrong about something that is deemed highly unlikely to be true and has no good reason to be deemed true. I highly doubt that you believe every single unlikely claim made by everyone you have ever met.

The story is a fact, I was there, I would know.
Then please verify it.

Again, I am not saying that because I seen it, you should believe it.
That is on you to decide.
The supernatural is not only explanation, but to me, it is the most likely.
And that is your bias.

Coincidence does not wash.
How about just being wrong or mistaken?

You even said that the story is very unbelievable to you, so obviously you are choosing to not believe it over choosing it label it a coincidence.
Correct?
Yes.

It cant be unbelievable to me because I seen it with my own eyes and coincidence does not wash.
The more you keep asserting something, the more it sounds less like you are trying to convince anyone other than yourself. If you repeat a falsehood enough times, you will eventually be able to convince ever yourself. It is a quirk of the human brain. The point is that you're asserting something as a fact and saying it is true "because you say so", and then lamenting other people who do the same thing. Look at your words above, and compare them to your earlier statement:

"People here are guilty of making brute fact claims of the negative though with nothing more than "because I said so" as their justifications."

That is literally what you have just repeatedly done, asserting something as true with no justification for it other than your word; and while you appear to lament it in others, when you do the exact same thing yourself you seem upset at the notion that we shouldn't just take your word for it. This is an example of the bias I was talking about earlier.

Wrong, if someone told me a similar story, I would be open to all possibilities.
Just because it sounds unbelievable does not mean it is not true.
Where have I ever asserted otherwise, or said I wasn't open to the possibility of it being true?

People make claims of this sort of stuff all the time, are you not aware of this?
But we're not talking about "this sort of stuff", we're talking about your claim specifically. Right now you're committing your own logical fallacy.

So why is what other peoples support on what I said any more relevant?
Because I want to verify if the story you're telling actually happened. If I can't even verify that it happened, I have no good reason to assume that it's true.

Never the less, if I were able to produce every single person that knows of this story to you, what makes them any more believable than me?
Well, I could independently cross-reference their testimonies and see if they all match up. If lots of other people independently verify your claim, it makes it more reasonable to assume the claim is true. It would also allow me to hear about other factors that you may not have told me or be aware of that could have influenced the likelihood against your story being true.

Are you bias against me personally?
No. I would ask the same of anybody who made an extremely unlikely claim and didn't present any evidence for it.

Again, I am sure you heard stories of the supernatural like this before so I fail to see why you desire more people to show support for what I said.
Because we're not talking about "other stories of the supernatural", we're talking about your story and trying to verify if your story is true. It doesn't matter if other supernatural claims are true or not, or if aliens exist, or of there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - not a single one of them matters with relation to the truth of your claim. Even if every single other supernatural story ever told were true, that doesn't mean that yours must be true as well. Every claim stands on its own merits.

In short, you prob don't believe that Jesus preformed miracles and you have tons of text and accounts from others to ponder over.
That's for very different reasons. Also, I cannot verify any of their accounts.

But you will believe my account if I had more people to confirm it?
That depends entirely on what they tell me.

Its a very remarkable story, why are you nick picking my method of how I presented it?
Because I don't find a story remarkable if I don't think it is true, and you have given me no reason to think that it is.

How would you have presented it?
As an unexplained series of bizarre coincidences.

You are being quite unfair to me for not presenting it as you may have.
We have our own minds and methods of doing things.
And I happen to think that mine gives me a closer reading of reality. You think the same of your methods too, though you may not admit it.

But yah, if anything, please explain the "proper" method to describe this event if it happened to you exactly as I explained it happened to me, using your style.
What did I do wrong?
Presenting something as proof of the supernatural, then stating that you weren't trying to convince anyone. That's like me saying "I have proof that Jesus was a rabbit", and when people think my proof is poor, I turn around and say "It was just an idea, I wasn't trying to prove anything..."
 

IHaveTheGift

U know who U R
Yes it is. How can something which is not proven to exist ever be a more plausible explanation over something that does exist? It's laughable.
You are begging the question and that is laughable, why?
Can you prove the more plausible explanation of this or are you just assuming your opinion makes you right?

Secondly. How did you get from her having these visions of the number and winning to God? At best you have an unexplained phenomenon, which could be supernatural.
Exactly, and because of all my experiences of God and the supernatural, I am claiming that is the most plausible explanation.
Plus, you are kind of contradicting yourself now.
First you say that this is most likely deemed something proven to exist and now you are saying it's an unexplained phenomenon that could be supernatural.
:sarcastic

But it's at this point you need to investigate and learn the actual truth. This sounds like one big argument from ignorance. 30 years ago this thing happened and you assumed that it was God because you couldn't think of anything else, which strengthened your belief in him.
How is this an argument from ignorance?,
I was there, fully pondered and studied the event as it took place and compared it to all my experiences with God and arrived at my conclusions.
I also explained why I feel it isn't a coincidence.

The real argument from ignorance is you saying I "assumed it was God because I couldn't think of anything else".
:yes:

But you shouldn't just assume an answer because you don't know what really happened.

You have that backwards brother, I was there and it is an experience I witnessed fully.
YOU were not there and again it is laughable that you are the one arguing from ignorance and begging the question, over and over.

Question, how could you say the following in one breath and then completely contradiction yourself over and over, just to present yourself like a know it all?
At best you have an unexplained phenomenon, which could be supernatural.
Obviously it seems even the most hard core skeptics posting in this thread realize that this has "unexplainable phenomenon" written all over it.
But then deny that part completely.
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
You are begging the question and that is laughable, why?
Can you prove the more plausible explanation of this or are you just assuming your opinion makes you right?


Exactly, and because of all my experiences of God and the supernatural, I am claiming that is the most plausible explanation.
Plus, you are kind of contradicting yourself now.
First you say that this is most likely deemed something proven to exist and now you are saying it's an unexplained phenomenon that could be supernatural.
:sarcastic


How is this an argument from ignorance?,
I was there, fully pondered and studied the event as it took place and compared it to all my experiences with God and arrived at my conclusions.
I also explained why I feel it isn't a coincidence.

The real argument from ignorance is you saying I "assumed it was God because I couldn't think of anything else".
:yes:



You have that backwards brother, I was there and it is an experience I witnessed fully.
YOU were not there and again it is laughable that you are the one arguing from ignorance and begging the question, over and over.

Question, how could you say the following in one breath and then completely contradiction yourself over and over, just to present yourself like a know it all?

Obviously it seems even the most hard core skeptics posting in this thread realize that this has "unexplainable phenomenon" written all over it.
But then deny that part and are seeming to be contradicting themselves and not really offering any thing as a better explanation.

I don't think it's unexplainable. I think there are a huge number of possible explanations and you've ruled out all but one, but you refuse to share your reasoning with us to determine whether or not it is sound.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Obviously it seems even the most hard core skeptics posting in this thread realize that this has "unexplainable phenomenon" written all over it.
But then deny that part completely.
That is not what they said at all. They clearly said:

"At best you have an unexplained phenomenon, which could be supernatural."

They didn't say it was "unexplainable", they said it was "unexplained". Furthermore, they didn't say that this was "written all over it", but that this was "at best" what you had.

Please apologize for your misrepresentation.
 

IHaveTheGift

U know who U R
That is not what they said at all. They clearly said:

"At best you have an unexplained phenomenon, which could be supernatural."

They didn't say it was "unexplainable", they said it was "unexplained". Furthermore, they didn't say that this was "written all over it", but that this was "at best" what you had.

Please apologize for your misrepresentation.

You are reaching for something that is not there brother.
1)It is explained, read the OP, I fully explain the event, and even included irrelevant details, such as me playing Bball, writing the number down on my hand, and what I did with some of my share of the money.
I fully explained the event.

An unexplained event would be this...
"I experienced something that leads me to believe it was a supernatural event".

Unexplainable is when we cant prove what caused the event.
Unexplained is when we didnt describe the event.


2)"written all over it" is saying the same thing as...
"various people say it could be this"
"various people say it is a possibility"
"it can not be ruled out"

Etc...

But yah, people in other countries do not all agree on meanings of words, so if you feel I am wrong, please explain what "written all over it" means to you.

To me, it is a way of saying probability because it CAN be the case and others including skeptics also say it CAN be the case.
No where does it mean that it is the reason though. ;)

Some people here have made total jokes of the thread with dead uncles and such and you are nick picking something I said and trying to turn it into something that it is not and you want an apology from me?

Mind boggling.

BBL
 
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Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Just wanted to point out that even if everything happened exactly as related in the OP it doesn't necessarily indicate God.

If anything, it speaks more of the ability to tell the future to me. Dreams are our brains trying to assimilate all the things that we experienced in the near past. Maybe there is some future echo that accidentally got lodged in grandma's dream.

Point is, it's all speculation. We can look at these sorts of stories and either say "Nah. Didn't happen", or "Sure, could have happened" but they don't explain what's happening. Just that sometimes weird stuff happens and we don't know why or how.
 

IHaveTheGift

U know who U R
Just wanted to point out that even if everything happened exactly as related in the OP it doesn't necessarily indicate God.

If anything, it speaks more of the ability to tell the future to me. Dreams are our brains trying to assimilate all the things that we experienced in the near past. Maybe there is some future echo that accidentally got lodged in grandma's dream.

Point is, it's all speculation. We can look at these sorts of stories and either say "Nah. Didn't happen", or "Sure, could have happened" but they don't explain what's happening. Just that sometimes weird stuff happens and we don't know why or how.

Do you feel there is merit to say, it the case of the OP:
"There is no God, it has to have a natural explanation and everyone else is wrong?"
And it merits poking fun at the OP and/or belittling those who say it might be of the supernatural?

Just wondering
 
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Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
Do you feel there is merit to say, it the case of the OP:
"There is no God, it has to have a natural explanation and everyone else is wrong?"
And it merits poking fun at the OP?

Just wondering

I don't think the OP speaks to the existence of God one way or another.

Obviously, someone who has the assumption that god doesn't exist will likely try to explain this experience without the existence of god. That's because "god" isn't a reasonable explanation in such a worldview. Personally, I wouldn't say that it has to have a natural explanation; I would say that it's most likely that there is a natural explanation. Why? Because that's what fits in with my worldview, and this experience, on it's own, isn't enough to shake my faith in that worldview.

As for making fun of the OP, I don't know. I don't know if that has occurred (only read the first couple of pages), and I don't know the reasons for the ridicule, if it has occurred. Sometimes, it's the only response to be made against a poor argument; sometimes it's made out of frustration; and sometimes, it's the internet and people like feeling witty, even at the expense of others. Just make sure you aren't confusing disagreement with ridicule.
 

TheGunShoj

Active Member
Wow, so much word twisting and misrepresentation in your response.

You are begging the question and that is laughable, why?
Can you prove the more plausible explanation of this or are you just assuming your opinion makes you right?

Yes. Based on probability. After all, we know that billions of naturally occurring events happen every second in this universe. How many examples of the supernatural do we have? 0. Yet you think it's more probable to assert a supernatural explanation. I wouldn't say this is rock solid proof. But I would say that it is enough to debunk that a supernatural explanation is more likely then a natural one and also that even if you are right, that you are not justified in believing in such a supernatural cause right now because you have no evidence to support that position.

Do you honestly think it's more plausible to assume that something supernatural which has no evidence to support it is more likely the cause than a perfectly normal occurrence such as a coincidence or any other natural explanation?


Exactly, and because of all my experiences of God and the supernatural, I am claiming that is the most plausible explanation.
Plus, you are kind of contradicting yourself now.
First you say that this is most likely deemed something proven to exist and now you are saying it's an unexplained phenomenon that could be supernatural.
:sarcastic?

I did not contradict myself at all. yes I did state that it is most likely a natural explanation but I cannot rule out supernatural cause without a shadow of a doubt so technically it could be. I just wonder how you can claim that a supernatural explanation is more plausible with nothing other than personal opinion as your 'proof'


How is this an argument from ignorance?,
I was there, fully pondered and studied the event as it took place and compared it to all my experiences with God and arrived at my conclusions.
I also explained why I feel it isn't a coincidence.

The real argument from ignorance is you saying I "assumed it was God because I couldn't think of anything else".
:yes:

This is the very definition of an argument from ignorance. You were there and you experienced something. You haven't even demonstrated that it was supernatural at all, much less being a deity. You are just inserting what you *think* was the cause. It could have been aliens beaming the number into her brain. You haven't proven that it was god, so you are performing the argument from ignorance fallacy.


You have that backwards brother, I was there and it is an experience I witnessed fully.
YOU were not there and again it is laughable that you are the one arguing from ignorance and begging the question, over and over.

Question, how could you say the following in one breath and then completely contradiction yourself over and over, just to present yourself like a know it all?

Obviously it seems even the most hard core skeptics posting in this thread realize that this has "unexplainable phenomenon" written all over it.
But then deny that part completely.

You completely misrepresented what I said here. I said "at best you have an unexplained hypothesis" not "unexplainable" there is a huge difference. And I said that it could be supernatural. Could being the key word. But you don't get to just jump to that conclusion. You have to prove that there is a supernatural cause. Again, this is the argument from ignorance fallacy.
 
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Alceste

Vagabond
You are reaching for something that is not there brother.
1)It is explained, read the OP, I fully explain the event, and even included irrelevant details, such as me playing Bball, writing the number down on my hand, and what I did with some of my share of the money.
I fully explained the event.

An unexplained event would be this...
"I experienced something that leads me to believe it was a supernatural event".

Unexplainable is when we cant prove what caused the event.
Unexplained is when we didnt describe the event.


2)"written all over it" is saying the same thing as...
"various people say it could be this"
"various people say it is a possibility"
"it can not be ruled out"

Etc...

But yah, people in other countries do not all agree on meanings of words, so if you feel I am wrong, please explain what "written all over it" means to you.

To me, it is a way of saying probability because it CAN be the case and others including skeptics also say it CAN be the case.
No where does it mean that it is the reason though. ;)

Some people here have made total jokes of the thread with dead uncles and such and you are nick picking something I said and trying to turn it into something that it is not and you want an apology from me?

Mind boggling.

BBL

No, you have not explained. You have recounted events, but you still refuse to provide an explanation why you feel a granny dreaming up lottery numbers 30 years ago is "proof of the supernatural".

I personally lean toward Favlun's take - it is possible that insights about future events can leak into dreams. If true, that would EXPLAIN my own experiences, which were similar to your elderly friend's, but occured despite my life long lack of belief in any deities.

Although her explanation is of course not the only possible explanation. There are dozens of others I can think of off the top of my head. The "leaky future" hypothesis appeals because it doesn't require me to be remembering events incorrectly, which soothes my ego. It's not the most rational explanation though - that would be a malfunction in my mind's ability to record and recount events. This is most rational not because of a naturalistic bias, but because it is the only explanation backed by a great deal of supporting evidence: human memory has been thoroughly researched and found to be notoriously unreliable.

Godly intervention is the least rational explanation, since I am not a believer, the experiences had no impact on my belief, they had no impact on world events for better or worse, and there are millions of people in the world who would be more deserving of God's personal intervention than myself, if such an entity actually exists.
 
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ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You are reaching for something that is not there brother.
1)It is explained, read the OP, I fully explain the event, and even included irrelevant details, such as me playing Bball, writing the number down on my hand, and what I did with some of my share of the money.
I fully explained the event.

An unexplained event would be this...
"I experienced something that leads me to believe it was a supernatural event".

Unexplainable is when we cant prove what caused the event.
Unexplained is when we didnt describe the event.
This is garbled nonsense and nothing but word trickery. Something which is unexplained is an event which has yet to have an explanation behind it. Something that is unexplainable is something that cannot be explained. That's blatantly obvious.

2)"written all over it" is saying the same thing as...
"various people say it could be this"
"various people say it is a possibility"
"it can not be ruled out"

Etc...

But yah, people in other countries do not all agree on meanings of words, so if you feel I am wrong, please explain what "written all over it" means to you.
Again, more garbled nonsense. "Written all over it" means "it's obvious". You can try and slip out of these two statements all you like. I admitted when I made a false reading of your words - the least you can do is admit when you make a misreading of others. This is an obvious and desperate attempt to save face, and I insist you apologize or at the very least acknowledge that you misrepresented them.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Do you honestly think it's more plausible to assume that something supernatural which has no evidence to support it is more likely the cause than a perfectly normal occurrence such as a coincidence or any other natural explanation?

For any one particular instance (such as the OP story) we have to admit we just don't know. If this was the only alleged supernatural event in the history of mankind then I might agree with you. However, there have been millions of seemingly supernatural events in the history of mankind. In that case it is reasonable to consider that there is more to this universe than the so-called 'natural' can explain.

Personally (after hearing so many amazing stories) I believe the possibility that they all are 'natural' events is far less likely then the possibility that we are in a universe more complicated than we think.
 
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TheGunShoj

Active Member
For any one particular instance (such as the OP story) we have to admit we just don't know. If this was the only alleged supernatural event in the history of mankind then I might agree with you. However, there have been millions of seemingly supernatural events in the history of mankind. In that case it is reasonable to consider that there is more to this universe than the so-called 'natural' can explain.

Personally (after hearing so many amazing stories) I believe the possibility that they all are 'natural' events is far less likely then the possibility that we are in a universe more complicated than we think.

And I'm totally fine with saying I don't know. Just find it odd to say that a supernatural explanation is more plausible than a natural one. At the present time, natural is all we know. So even if supernatural is real, asserting it as fact is unjustified at this time. There could very well be more to this universe than we know but then again, aren't all things in the universe natural? no matter how crazy or unbelievable they are?
 

IHaveTheGift

U know who U R

Due to what I am learning from a lot of the replies here, I now have a much more interesting topic I wish to start from the huge eye opening that this topic has shown to me.
Call it a smack right in the face for the good, if you will :D

Stay tuned for a new topic that I wish to start that will refer back to this thread as my starting point and my empirical evidence, if you will.

Please take no offence to those I have open conversations with here.
I will reply to you as soon as I can.
I try to be as honest and fair as possible, your points deserve attention too.

But if I continue to reply now, I wont be able to start the new topic.
You will reply to my reply and I will be stuck here.
If I am going to be rude to you, might as well do it and get it over with and then make up for it later, if you will.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
And I'm totally fine with saying I don't know. Just find it odd to say that a supernatural explanation is more plausible than a natural one.

In the particular OP story I might agree with you. But in other cases I can believe a supernatural explanation is more plausible than a natural explanation. For example, I believe there is enough evidence for apparitions/ghosts to believe they most likely exist. For me, the likelihood of a supernatural explanation for much of the phenomena is greater than the likelihood that every single case has a natural explanation.

At the present time, natural is all we know. So even if supernatural is real, asserting it as fact is unjustified at this time. There could very well be more to this universe than we know but then again, aren't all things in the universe natural? no matter ho w crazy or unbelievable they are?

Yes, ultimately there can be no such thing as supernatural. However, in these discussions the word 'supernatural' has a fairly clear colloquial meaning.
 
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IHaveTheGift

U know who U R
I don't think the OP speaks to the existence of God one way or another.

Obviously, someone who has the assumption that god doesn't exist will likely try to explain this experience without the existence of god. That's because "god" isn't a reasonable explanation in such a worldview. Personally, I wouldn't say that it has to have a natural explanation; I would say that it's most likely that there is a natural explanation. Why? Because that's what fits in with my worldview, and this experience, on it's own, isn't enough to shake my faith in that worldview.

As for making fun of the OP, I don't know. I don't know if that has occurred (only read the first couple of pages), and I don't know the reasons for the ridicule, if it has occurred. Sometimes, it's the only response to be made against a poor argument; sometimes it's made out of frustration; and sometimes, it's the internet and people like feeling witty, even at the expense of others. Just make sure you aren't confusing disagreement with ridicule.

At least you admit that you are bias.
(plz see my new thread on the subject of bias to why I feel it's unhealthy behavior if bled into areas like thinking for others and such)

ridicule is a form of disagreement, correct?
I personally do not feel that childish mockery of others is a good position to take when debating, if one wishes to keep the discussion doing in a positive direction.
I usually just ignore it though.
 

IHaveTheGift

U know who U R
For any one particular instance (such as the OP story) we have to admit we just don't know. If this was the only alleged supernatural event in the history of mankind then I might agree with you. However, there have been millions of seemingly supernatural events in the history of mankind. In that case it is reasonable to consider that there is more to this universe than the so-called 'natural' can explain.

Personally (after hearing so many amazing stories) I believe the possibility that they all are 'natural' events is far less likely then the possibility that we are in a universe more complicated than we think.

That is exactly how I feel and since I witnessed it and other events, I have the stance that it has merit.
Other keep asking me why I am deeming the OP as such, but cant grasp what you said and I have tried to explain to them and they keep going back to claiming I am not explaining it to them.
 

IHaveTheGift

U know who U R
And I'm totally fine with saying I don't know. Just find it odd to say that a supernatural explanation is more plausible than a natural one. At the present time, natural is all we know. So even if supernatural is real, asserting it as fact is unjustified at this time. There could very well be more to this universe than we know but then again, aren't all things in the universe natural? no matter how crazy or unbelievable they are?

Please see my thread on bias is not evidence.
Just because everything can be reasoned with a natural explanation or deemed that we don't have to have an answer, it does not mean the supernatural cant be true.
Its bias to claim otherwise.
 
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