Proof that God is not omnipotent

[Kilgore Trout]

What does it mean?

If you can't figure it out, you won't get the joke.

 

[Willamena]

If you can't figure it out, you won't get the joke.

Fair enough.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Personally, I'd like to see proof that god isn't omnimpotent.

Ah-ha, that one slipped right past me. Very clever. I can't remember, but what level of Dante's hell was reserved for those who made fun of God's, uh-huumph, prowess?

I just thought of a new ad slogan -- Viagra, it is simply divine.

 

[sojourner]

Well I did pose the question so I will answer yours. When I say unbreakable I mean by the very definition of word. Something that can not be broken. " (unbreakable by whom?)" It does not need a thinking being to change the definition of the word. If I meant unbreakable by anyone but god then that would be a different question. Unbreakable. As in can not be broken. There is no contradiction.

It doesn't matter. God doesn't make swords. The making of swords is a human -- not a Divine -- construct. God cannot be defined by or limited to human standards and be God.

 

[Beaudreaux]

God is beyond human logic. And yes the immovable rock argument is essentially the same as the unbreakable sword argument that you've presented, both seek to apply human standards of logic to something that is beyond our understanding.

If God is beyond our understanding, why bother trying to understand him?

 

[Beaudreaux]

God cannot be defined by or limited to human standards and be God.

ANOTHER thing He cannot do!

 

[painted wolf]

If God is beyond our understanding, why bother trying to understand him?

if the universe is infinite, why bother building more powerful telescopes to try to see the edges of it?

wa:do

ps. I love these kind of questions.

 

[sojourner]

ANOTHER thing He cannot do!

Weak. Being defined isn't an act. It's a perspective. In this case, a human perspective.
Keep trying, though.

 

[sojourner]

if the universe is infinite, why bother building more powerful telescopes to try to see the edges of it?

wa:do

ps. I love these kind of questions.

Can't frubal you again so soon, but wa:do!

 

[Thief]

It doesn't matter. God doesn't make swords. The making of swords is a human -- not a Divine -- construct. God cannot be defined by or limited to human standards and be God.

So....
'from His mouth proceeds a doubled edged sword...'
means nothing.

As well as that angel that guards the Garden, having a sword of flame.

 

[painted wolf]

LoL seriously?

you can't break a firesword... you can only douse it with a flood. :sarcastic

And do you really think god spits swords from his mouth? Have you never herd of an "expression"?

wa:do

 

[Thief]

LoL seriously?

you can't break a firesword... you can only douse it with a flood. :sarcastic

And do you really think god spits swords from his mouth? Have you never herd of an "expression"?

wa:do

Your rhetorical question is the point I make.

Swords sever the living from the dead.
'From His mouth proceeds a double edged sword.'
Double edged swords cut both ways...to the left...to the right.

It won't matter your position of denial....left or right.
If you stand in opposition ...you will be cut.

And let's say the sword is of fire....and cannot be broken.
Does the word 'omnipotent', apply to Him....holding the sword?

 

[Peacewise]

If God is beyond our understanding, why bother trying to understand him?

Life is a journey.

Perhaps an analogy might work, if God is an infinite series of increasingly complex concepts then we can know those parts of God that are simple and gradually as our understanding grows we begin to understand more of God, yet at each point we can never understand all of God.

When our reasoning fails this is not a sign that God does not exist there, but instead that we are limited. So it seems to me, maybe this isn't an analogy at all but is instead the truth, f knows.

 

[idea]

Can God microwave a burrito soooo hot that even God can’t eat it?

Can God make everyone happy?

Can God force everyone to do what’s right without taking away their free agency?

1) An Omnipotent God would still be unable to do the logically impossible.
2) If they could, we would not be able to comprehend the action or outcome. (This apple is not an apple.)

I agree - If it's possible, God can do it, which makes Him omnipotent.

impossible exists though.

 

[Reverend Rick]

A swordsmith was asked by god to make an unbreakable sword. After a year of trying over and over again he came back with what he believed to be an unbreakable sword and showed it to god. God looked over the sword and agreed that it was in fact the best sword he ever saw but with one snap of his fingers broke the sword in two. He turned to the him and said "I'm very disappointed in you." The swordsmith thought about this for a moment and then said "You do it then."

This is not the heavy rock argument but a real world scenario where if there was a god you could ask him to create an unbreakable sword. If he could then it is unbreakable and if you asked him to break it he wouldn't be able to do so. If he could break it then he couldn't create an unbreakable sword.

 

[CCAPalandiriel]

The classic heavy rock argument. Except a sword, so its way cooler, haha!

Maybe it's kind of a cheap way out, but I'ver heard it said that he CAN do it, but why on earth (or heaven!) would he? It would be rather pointless.

 

[wmjbyatt]

This argument has already been had a thousand times, and may theologians have provided many different answers. Some say that "omnipotent" means "capable of doing all things which can in themselves BE done," some resolve the paradox by saying that if the need arose for God to create an unbreakable sword and then try to break it, He would just change the rules of logic and reality (he's GOD, he can DO that) to make it possible. And some, myself included, argue that logic is the product of a human mind and that God, if He exists, is above that. Check out the wiki article on the Omnipotence Paradox.

 

[Thief]

This argument has already been had a thousand times, and may theologians have provided many different answers. Some say that "omnipotent" means "capable of doing all things which can in themselves BE done," some resolve the paradox by saying that if the need arose for God to create an unbreakable sword and then try to break it, He would just change the rules of logic and reality (he's GOD, he can DO that) to make it possible. And some, myself included, argue that logic is the product of a human mind and that God, if He exists, is above that. Check out the wiki article on the Omnipotence Paradox.

yeah well...you're not catching on.
Man is a creature that gets lost in his thoughts.
Creating a paradox seems to be a fascination.

That we are discussing a paradox... that has God in it...
and some vague claim is made to slight the existence of God?
Really?

So you contend that God does not exist, because some one dreamed up a paradox, and applied it to God?

The actual paradox is that Man would turn his face upward, look into the heavens, and say ...
'there is no God'.

The solution is death....to the nay sayer.

How's that for an unbreakable sword?

 

[wmjbyatt]

The solution is death....to the nay sayer.

How's that for an unbreakable sword?

It's poetic, Crusading, and theologically useless.

 

[Thief]

It's poetic, Crusading, and theologically useless.

yeah but.... what about the first half of the post?