Proposed bill would require men in Alabama to get vasectomy

[Shadow Wolf]

behave themselves according to traditional more's

That is a good thing, why?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Oh, yeah, BTW, in "nany socialist iron fisted" blue California, when I got my driver's license picture taken here they let me wear my glasses, and they also let me smile. Indiana allows neither.

Well I guess that's one for you. ;0)

 

[dianaiad]

That is a good thing, why?

I didn't say it was either good or bad.

It's the difference between conservative and liberal aims.

Conservatives go for traditional more's and independent finances/actions.
Liberals go...supposedly...for more freedom in terms of social action and considerably LESS freedom in finances.

I have always been more of a 'social liberal' and 'fiscal conservative.' but looking at the world now, it seems to ME that it is the liberals who are most likely to clobber anybody who is different.

If one doesn't agree with all the liberal talking points, all hell breaks loose. All you have to do is see the mandatory signs outside businesses assuring people that all are welcome...with the understanding that if such a sign doesn't exist, one's business is at risk financially and physically.

If I had a business, I'd rather be hung in effigy and my signs torn down than bow to that sort of pressure. NO SIGN. The welcome should be ASSUMED...and only addressed if the shopkeeper violated that welcome.

It's going to be a bit hard for me, for instance, to forget being told that I was no longer welcome in a KNITTING forum because, as a conservative, I was considered to be racist, a white supremacist...and that while one can purchase "F***Trump" patterns to knit, offering a "MAGA" hat pattern will get one tossed off, vilified and reputation ruined.

Or that a simple accusation will destroy a business of three generations because the owner didn't allow a couple of black students to shoplift wine from him. It is SUPPOSED to be that 'liberals' equal social freedom and conservatives equal fiscal responsibility and freedom, but nowadays, it seems to me that liberal = no freedom whatsoever and someone else gets to pay for it.

It is disturbing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

it seems to ME that it is the liberals who are most likely to clobber anybody who is different.

And yet it was Bible Thumping conservatives making my life miserable in Indiana, getting crapy with her, and telling me to leave. They are the ones, after all, who want special legal privileges and rights to hold discrimination as a right.

Or that a simple accusation will destroy a business of three generations because the owner didn't allow a couple of black students to shoplift wine from him.

Evidence?

 

[columbus]

It is disturbing.

Perhaps the problem is that you are relatively conservative compared to your social environment.
For folks like @Shadow Wolf and me, it's all reversed.

My partner got a DUI, back when Mike Pence was whipping up cash and votes opposing marriage equality. I was afraid to go to court with him because I knew that some homophobic government employee could make his life more difficult with the stroke of a pen or push of a button. So his mom went for moral support.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps the problem is that you are relatively conservative compared to your social environment.
For folks like @Shadow Wolf and me, it's all reversed.

My partner got a DUI, back when Mike Pence was whipping up cash and votes opposing marriage equality. I was afraid to go to court with him because I knew that some homophobic government employee could make his life more difficult with the stroke of a pen or push of a button. So his mom went for moral support.
Tom

Reversed enough I ran when I could and haven't looked back. And if it's not the state, it's Klansmen and their supporters and sympathizers, fundamentalist Evangelicals, redneck hicks, and good ole boys that add to and reinforce the states rejection, dismissal, and moral battle against things that offend their man-god-thing in the sky. It's bad enough their I bring my stories to "Conservative" Bakersfield and shock those here who call themselves conservative.

 

[dianaiad]

And yet it was Bible Thumping conservatives making my life miserable in Indiana, getting crapy with her, and telling me to leave. They are the ones, after all, who want special legal privileges and rights to hold discrimination as a right.

Evidence?

Oberlin College vs. Gibson bakery: Fake racism charge hurts reputation

https://www.asumag.com/facilities-m...st-post-36-million-appeal-bond-in-bakery-case

TPM Leads Gibson’s Bakery to Largest Defamation Verdict in Ohio History | Tzangas Plakas Mannos, Ltd.

This last link has many others, leading to media outlet stories about Gibson's Bakery v Oberlin college.

Feel free to ask me to back up any claim I make. I can USUALLY back them up, and when I can't, I'll say so and back down.


And yes, discrimination IS a 'right." that is, We are all free to be stupid. It comes with being human. We are also free to protest. What we are NOT free to do (or should not be free to do) is make accusations without substance and get away without consequences. We are not free to force others to do what we want, simply because we don't like the way those others think.

So...if you are gay and you want someone to photograph your wedding, you are NOT, imo, free to force that photographer to take pictures of your wedding simply because you have the power to make him do it. Go find someone who WANTS to. Ask me. I'll do it, and do a darned good job, as well. I'll bake your cake, too.

And do NOT talk to me, for crying out loud, about how some evangelist in Indiana made your life miserable. I'm a Mormon and a conservative. I've been called 'racist,' and 'white supremacist' and all sorts of nasty names because I have different opinions about some things. I've been kicked out of stores, had stones thrown at me, had my children attacked, and booted from debate forums because they didn't like my religion or my politics, even when the store/forum had nothing to do with either.

It is STILL their right. I can get annoyed. I can point out how silly those folks are, how wrong they are....but insisting upon passing a law or forcing them? No. I draw a very broad and tough line there. The way to get things better is to change minds and hearts, not laws.

Or to say 'you do it my way or we'll destroy you!"

Which is what the liberals are doing.

 

[dianaiad]

Perhaps the problem is that you are relatively conservative compared to your social environment.
For folks like @Shadow Wolf and me, it's all reversed.

My partner got a DUI, back when Mike Pence was whipping up cash and votes opposing marriage equality. I was afraid to go to court with him because I knew that some homophobic government employee could make his life more difficult with the stroke of a pen or push of a button. So his mom went for moral support.
Tom

Yes. I am conservative in a mostly liberal area (more conservative than one would think, mind you; for the REAL snowflakes one needs to commute 40 miles west)

I'm also LDS.

Trust me on this; I KNOW what discrimination looks and feels like.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And yes, discrimination IS a 'right."

And yet the law doesn't support that claim, and in many instances does prohibit it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And do NOT talk to me, for crying out loud, about how some evangelist in Indiana made your life miserable.

Because you can't stand it when someone else who is Christian is put in a bad light?

It is STILL their right.

Having stones thrown at you and being attacked is not a right. But, well, as for ckaims of racism the Mormon chruch dies indeed have a history of racism and prejudiced policy. Amd even today still they dont like sharing rights, and have even worked to strip people of rights?
And xo you want to play victim Olympics? Yes, Christians did factually make my life difficult to say the least in Indiana. And what I have? Nothing. Certainly not belonging to an bigoted organization that promotes hate and discrimination.

 

[dianaiad]

And yet the law doesn't support that claim, and in many instances does prohibit it.

You are begging the question.

.....Simply because some idiot PASSED a law, doing that doesn't make whatever it is holy and unquestionable. The question isn't whether there IS a law, but whether there should be...and whether, if there is, it's constitutional.

History has shown us that people have passed unconstitutional and eventually reversed fairly often. There is nothing at all sacrosanct about there BEING a law.

 

[dianaiad]

Because you can't stand it when someone else who is Christian is put in a bad light?

Having stones thrown at you and being attacked is not a right. But, well, as for ckaims of racism the Mormon chruch dies indeed have a history of racism and prejudiced policy. Amd even today still they dont like sharing rights, and have even worked to strip people of rights?
And xo you want to play victim Olympics? Yes, Christians did factually make my life difficult to say the least in Indiana. And what I have? Nothing. Certainly not belonging to an bigoted organization that promotes hate and discrimination.

Neither do I, Shadow Wolf. But you don't get to pretend that nobody understands you because they haven't been persecuted in precisely the way you have.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

History has shown us that people have passed unconstitutional and eventually reversed fairly often. There is nothing at all sacrosanct about there BEING a law.

Yup. It's what happened with slavery, and with discrimination over things like skin color, sex, veteran status, gender expression, and the SC recently determined "ok boomer" can fall under age discriminating.

But you don't get to pretend that nobody understands you

I never claimed such, nor do I believe it. But since you brought it up, not many people (a rather small percentage in many ways) actually do understand and get what's going on in my mind. And, yes, lots of people do misunderstand me, misread me, and misinterpret me. And, yeah, a good part of it is me: I'm autistic (Aspbergers), and have had to learn about, often by making mistakes that get interpreted in a very wrong way (I've had to quickly dissolve explosive and potentially violent situations, and without using my illness as an excuse).
In many ways, you don't want to keep digging yourself into this whole. I've been in a fight, I have feared for my safety, I've felt with medical bs that people shouldn't have to deal with, and I have several diagnoses making life hard (my IBS is going rather bad right now, and physically it's sort of like period pains, which emotionally has me kind of that way as well from the pain). I need another colonoscopy next summer, and I'm going to be moving back in with my parents eventually (when they get moved here themselves) because I anticipate major surgery on my knees that is going to keep me off my feet for too long to pay rent, and so in general I can keep pumping money into health care treatments that insurance is slow to reimburse on. And get my masters degree, because a bachelor's in psych doesn't pay very well to juggle school, work, and clinicals.So, tell me again about "nobody understands me." No, many times they don't because my IQ and general knowledge is much higher than average and it's very easy for me to start taking above most people's heads.

 

[dianaiad]

Yup. It's what happened with slavery, and with discrimination over things like skin color, sex, veteran status, gender expression, and the SC recently determined "ok boomer" can fall under age discriminating.

I never claimed such, nor do I believe it. But since you brought it up, not many people (a rather small percentage in many ways) actually do understand and get what's going on in my mind. And, yes, lots of people do misunderstand me, misread me, and misinterpret me. And, yeah, a good part of it is me: I'm autistic (Aspbergers), and have had to learn about, often by making mistakes that get interpreted in a very wrong way (I've had to quickly dissolve explosive and potentially violent situations, and without using my illness as an excuse).
In many ways, you don't want to keep digging yourself into this whole. I've been in a fight, I have feared for my safety, I've felt with medical bs that people shouldn't have to deal with, and I have several diagnoses making life hard (my IBS is going rather bad right now, and physically it's sort of like period pains, which emotionally has me kind of that way as well from the pain). I need another colonoscopy next summer, and I'm going to be moving back in with my parents eventually (when they get moved here themselves) because I anticipate major surgery on my knees that is going to keep me off my feet for too long to pay rent, and so in general I can keep pumping money into health care treatments that insurance is slow to reimburse on. And get my masters degree, because a bachelor's in psych doesn't pay very well to juggle school, work, and clinicals.So, tell me again about "nobody understands me." No, many times they don't because my IQ and general knowledge is much higher than average and it's very easy for me to start taking above most people's heads.

Bless you, and I mean that. Mom has Chrones and it's no fun AT all. And no, I don't "get" Asbergers. However, one doesn't need to have the precise thing one is suffering from in order to be empathetic. For instance:

I have Multiple Myeloma (bone marrow cancer, high risk with a prognoses of three years...and I've been around for seven) and the odds are extremely high that when you move in with your parents, I won't be here. I have tumors growing in my skull, my arm, my legs and my spine and my only hope is that the Car-T cell trial I'm in on will give me more time. I have two fake knees, 'rebar' in my left arm to stabilize where the tumor is, one in the back of my head that is invading my brain. I've lost at least 20 IQ points as a result of chemo brain, and I don't dare write anything without a thesaurus open..

I don't have asbergers. I don't have IBS. I only have to deal with nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, peripheral neuropathy and a whole host of other chemo side effects. I've had two 'bald winters' (because of chemo and bone marrow transplants) and look to be having another one. Mouth sores from radition that have caused me to be, quite literally, unable to eat for weeks.

In other words, in a battle of symptoms and horrors, I win. Do you think you can possibly understand ME? I, frankly, think you can, at least mostly...and I'm still pretty darned smart. I just think your politics are short sighted, and you hate too easily, ascribing motives to an entire group of people that do not belong to the whole.

I'll bet that you are among the group that figures that if one Quaker gives in and shoots someone, that the "Society of Friends" has ALWAYS supported and recommended violence to that level. ...or if several Catholic priests hurt children, then of course they not only ALL do, but have been secretly trained as to how.


that said, and given my posts on this forum, I do freely admit that I haven't met a liberal whose ideas weren't completely sideways.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In other words, in a battle of symptoms and horrors, I win.

I dont care about whose has it worse. You're the one who brought up you don't want to hear about Hoosier yokels and hicks making my life hard, as if my woes, suffering, and pains are somehow lesser, because, oh, well, I'm not just whining about it but putting the focus on how bigoted and intolerant Bible Thumping Evangelicals can be. And, yeah, they can be some ****ty *** people.
Of course many people have had harder lives than I'll ever understand. My mom has had it WAY harder than even you (she's even had cancer). But, yeah, I've had a **** hard life and have had to put time off effort and with into where I'm at and what I have, and that didn't mean I can't voice that other people have contributed significantly to that (seriously, living there I felt like Frankenstein's Creature - the novel character, not the movies - and deeply sympathized with the character).

 

[dianaiad]

I dont care about whose has it worse. You're the one who brought up you don't want to hear about Hoosier yokels and hicks making my life hard, as if my woes, suffering, and pains are somehow lesser, because, oh, well, I'm not just whining about it but putting the focus on how bigoted and intolerant Bible Thumping Evangelicals can be. And, yeah, they can be some ****ty *** people.
Of course many people have had harder lives than I'll ever understand. My mom has had it WAY harder than even you (she's even had cancer). But, yeah, I've had a **** hard life and have had to put time off effort and with into where I'm at and what I have, and that didn't mean I can't voice that other people have contributed significantly to that (seriously, living there I felt like Frankenstein's Creature - the novel character, not the movies - and deeply sympathized with the character).

any body with any sense whatsoever empathizes with Frankenstien's monster.

but my list wasn't to so much 'out do you,' but as a rather pointed reminder that nobody here can make such a list without getting the reaction I gave you...and you just gave me.

You do not know that your mother has had it 'way harder than' even me . She may well have. But you don't know that. I don't know that I have it worse than her, either, but something tells me that having terminal cancer might just be a WEE hard to 'top' when listing miseries.

What I do know is this: no matter what ailments and horrors other people have, one can only deal with what one has, oneself. I have found over the years that a pain one has is more horrific than anybody else's...because it's one's own, AND that if one can look outside one's own pain, this is true for everybody else, as well. It is a really good idea to NOT assume that 'nobody knows the trouble I've seen, nobody knows my sorrow," because they do. Really.

Just because it's not the SAME trouble, it doesn't mean that it's not trouble. That's why I gave you my list. There was just something about your assumption that your problems were worse than anybody else's that made me go...wait. what? I'm sitting here dealing with something that WILL kill me sooner rather than later, dealing with side effects of the treatment that literally keep me from walking or moving much outside of bed to computer, something that I am going to lose to, and there was just something about your list that made me, er, pissed off. As in, how DARE you!

and then I thought...well, she's got her own problems she has to deal with and can't possibly know that the person she's about to land all over has problems that look pretty darned big next to yours, as in...yours look pretty small in comparison. Because they aren't small to you, and that means they aren't small, at all.

I'm sorry about your mother. but count your blessings, AND hers. You tell me that 'she's even had cancer." Past tense. Hallelujah. I've met many women who can say that. they 'even had cancer.' I envy them. I will NEVER get to 'ring the bell' that indicates treatment is over, radiation is done...and the cancer is gone. On the other hand, I also see the suffering those 'cancer survivors' have gone through to get to the bell ringing stage. It's not easy. Good for them. May they all have really good rest of their lives, seriously.

You've had a hard life. So, actually, have all the rest of us. We all need to deal with the situations we find ourselves in, fair or not...and I'll be the first to acknowledge that often life just ain't fair.