Proselytizing: What is it and is it a good or bad thing?

[TransmutingSoul]

Fake ''religions'' trying to take over. Trying to spread on people. A true religion never forces itself on people. In my opinion.

How does one determine what is fake?

An example would be that Muhammad teaches there is no compulsion in religion. Thus it can be seen that Muhammad teaches not to proselytize.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I’m convinced their views are not even remotely inspired by the Gospels they claim to represent.

Jesus is the only way? There is no other name by which we can be saved? Yeah, I think they base it on their interpretation of the gospels.

Also, I think it was a good thing that the Protestants broke away from the Catholic Church. Now, to give the Baha'i beliefs a little shout out, it would be better if both the Protestants and Catholics would take on some of the beliefs of the Baha'i Faith. The world is a mess right now and the Baha'i beliefs of racial, gender and religious unity would sure be a big help.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's interesting how our Baha'i friends complain about the moderation against proselytising here, yet on their forum Bahaiforums, because of no moderation, it's sadly been overrun with spam by scammers. I'm just an observer.

That site is owned and run by one person, who dissapears from time to time.

It may have the name Baha'i, but it is not an official Baha'i forum.

Regards Tony

 

[syo]

How does one determine what is fake?

The level of force. If i force my religion, then it must be wrong.

 

[Vinayaka]

That site is owned and run by one person, who dissapears from time to time.

It may have the name Baha'i, but it is not an official Baha'i forum.

Regards Tony

It's sad when spammers do that. I was appointed a secondary moderator of a now defunct forum, just to take care of spam. Maybe he could consider that. The way it stands now, it looks and behaves stupidly.

 

[CG Didymus]

I knew a guy who did that from Saturday to Sunday. Drugs and parties Saturday, church on Sunday. It's a more common mix than most suspect.

In the movie "Elmer Gantry", Burt Lancaster plays a very flawed traveling preacher. They go from town to town and set up a tent and put on a big show to get people to convert. Burt's character Elmer has a talk with the janitor cleaning up after the meeting. The janitor tells him that he's gotten saved... lots of times. Then, he's gone out and gotten drunk lots of times. And then he says that both have done him a lot of good.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is logically ludicrous to have a rule about proselytizing on an open religious debate section of any forum. Why it is logically ludicrous is already mentioned, there is no one specific defintion used in determining what post is a breach, it is mainly complaint based, which in turn is a way for a person to proselytize ones own view.

Going by the dictionary definition, in an open debate, almost all replies could be seen to be a breach of rule 8

I have chosen to leave this and all forums rather than to risk facing rule 8 breaches. Have a great life CG.

P/S and by the way, as a person that has chosen to pioneer, one knows they can not proselytize.

Regards Tony

And who is going to fill the void if you leave? There is only one Tony. Who else is going to wish me a "nice life". Oh, and what is the Baha'i line between "teaching" and "proselytizing"?

 

[UpperLimits]

I think most objections to proselytizing are based in method, rather than actual content. Facts can always be verified. While you may sometimes run into someone who refuses to agree to facts, it's usually the opinions and interpretations of the same that cause a significant portion of the disagreements.

Nevertheless, completely irrespective of how accurate someone's views may actually be, most people usually consider their own personal worldview as something akin to the "cure for cancer." With that in mind, I have to wonder why everybody wouldn't want to proselytize their worldview. After all, if you've got it all figured out, then why not share? And if you haven't, then why not hear another perspective?

 

[Vinayaka]

With that in mind, I have to wonder why everybody wouldn't want to proselytize their worldview.

I'm at the other end of this spectrum. Why would anyone want to share their POV by this aggressive method? Is it because they simply can't understand that others might have a differing POV, and others have thought and reflected on it as much as that have? Do they think we're all babies that need potty training?

Their view is "I'm smart, you're stupid, and let's change that." It's disrespectful to humanity.

But of course life is generally on a spectrum. So go ahead. I, and others have developed excellent ignore skills.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I've known several people that were preaching Jesus one year and then partying and doing drugs and drinking the next. Ironically, some still say they believe in Jesus.

That is usually the punchline in the joke. Same when I was going to church how the young pretty fast girl was booty shaking in the club Friday and Saturday but found her way into church Sunday.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

After all, if you've got it all figured out, then why not share? And if you haven't, then why not hear another perspective?

Because everyone doesn't have the correct worldview. Take the Westboro Baptist Church as a good example.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Proselytizing can mean different things to different people. Some people may feel a duty to proselytize as part of their faith. Others may use the word in a pejorative way to criticise others who 'teach' their faith to others while insisting on being above whatever they perceive the word to mean.

So what is proselytising? To me it means trying to convert people from one religion or worldview to another. Personally I wouldn't try to convert anyone to my religion, but if someone had questions about my faith or were interested to learn I would certainly help them. If someone wanted to join my religion, if I believed they were sincere and understood what my faith was about, I would certainly assist them in their journey to become part of the worldwide community of my faith. So none of this I would consider proselytizing. I would avoid any manipulation, coercion or deception which certainly runs contrary to the truthfulness and trsutworthiness that is at the foundation of any genuine religion.

Proselytizing on religious forum is against the rules btw. Some of you may be aware of rule 8:

8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.

RF Rules

I've certainly experienced a great deal of proselytizing during my time on RF and have been accused of it myself.

So what is proselytizing to you and is it a good or bad thing.

God deserves their worship, so in that sense I'm fine with it.

 

[stvdv]

For example Muslims, are they already in a Covenant relationship with God? If so, why? If not, why not?

Yes, Muslims are in a Covenant relationship with God.
The Quran is the verbatim revelation from God in Arabic. Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were Prophets and Messengers of God.
In the Quran even a dialogue with Jews and Christians is anticipated; "say, We believe in the Revelation that has come down to us and in that which came to you: our god and your God, is One; and it is to Him we bow in submission and peach" (2946)
According to the Quran Jesus and the patriarchs and Prophets of ancient Israel could be called "Muslims" in the sense of being persons who submitted their mind and hearts and wills to God and called others to do the same.

And are Hindus in a Covenant relationship with God?

 

[stvdv]

Nevertheless, completely irrespective of how accurate someone's views may actually be, most people usually consider their own personal worldview as something akin to the "cure for cancer." With that in mind, I have to wonder why everybody wouldn't want to proselytize their worldview. After all, if you've got it all figured out, then why not share? And if you haven't, then why not hear another perspective?

Go out to proselytize can be seen as a deficiency in trust of God.
You can tell God "I am available to teach others ... you send them to me"
And then you just wait and see if God agrees with "you being ready to teach"

 

[Dawnofhope]

Conceptually I don't reject the principles of Christianity, rather the theology that Jesus is the medium to God which I find incompatible to Jesus' historical rabbinical teachings. Because of the philosophical changes regarding the theology of Christianity such as the period of Arianism of Alexandria, to Homoousians of Cordoba, and finally Athanasian philosophy I've become skeptical of the authenticity of Christianity's philosophy as well as it's theology.

I largely agree with your assessment. I believe the Gospels are reasonably authentic along with the Apostolic letters. However interpretation of these books had derailed Christianity significantly by the 4th century. It is these interpretative errors, especially around the Divinity, Trinity and Sonship of Christ that Muhammad corrects in the Quran, Muhammad never refers to the Injil itself or Gospel as being corrupt.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And who is going to fill the void if you leave? There is only one Tony. Who else is going to wish me a "nice life". Oh, and what is the Baha'i line between "teaching" and "proselytizing"?

Maybe a new Tony? Maybe me after the little break. ;-)

To me there is a vast difference between teaching and proselytizing. The guidelines I use are noted in another thread started upon that specific subject.

It is very difficult to proselytize in an open debate forum, especially if you are the one to start a topic and others choose to participate. That participation in itself, to me, negates any claim they may have that they have been preached to.

I will respond in the other thread and be more specific. Pioneering: Teaching or Proselytizing?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The level of force. If i force my religion, then it must be wrong.

I would see the actions of the person are wrong, but I see I can not say the Religion is wrong until I know what it teaches.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

JC did not have the good opportunity to convert to RF, so He missed out on rule #8.

But on the other hand, if RF already is that smart to create rule #8, I can not imagine Jesus to be less smart
So maybe Jesus never said to the people to go proselytizing others ... Jesus did not write the Bible Himself
Sometimes it happens that the sheep become much more fanatic than the Master ever was

I do know that the Church has been in power for centuries, so the proselytizing part could have been their strategy
Sometimes, over time, the original message changes a little. I always use common sense above blind following
Rule #8 feels very good to me, so I choose to believe that Jesus originally never wanted others to proselytize

Jesus Himself proclaimed Himself to be the Christ and Promised One of the Hebrew Scriptures. He exhorted the Jewish people to turn to Him (John 14:6). Rule 8 wasn’t part of Mosaic Law.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's sad when spammers do that. I was appointed a secondary moderator of a now defunct forum, just to take care of spam. Maybe he could consider that. The way it stands now, it looks and behaves stupidly.

I agree, I have left that site for some time now. I see a significant part of it as a bad reflection on the name of the Baha'i Faith. There has been many very ordinary posts allowed to continue. Early on I added to some of that, but wisdom is learned with the living of life and one can not always get it right.

Over time many have offered to help the moderation, but I guess it is hard to let go.

Regards Tony

Regards Tony

 

[syo]

I would see the actions of the person are wrong, but I see I can not say the Religion is wrong until I know what it teaches.

Regards Tony

I agree on that. We shouldn't use force, force might even damage the religion itself.