Prostitution Argument (continued from “Iceland to ban porn on the web because of children”)

[Zoe Doidge]

A tangent from this thread.

Have at it!

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm a Libertarian & I'm predictable.....so I'm pro-prostitution.
(And yes, Mrs Revolt already knows.)

 

[Zoe Doidge]

I'm a Libertarian & I'm predictable.....so I'm pro-prostitution.
(And yes, Mrs Revolt already knows.)

And I suppose it's no surprise that I'm also a supporter.

Indeed, but it's function is to curb prostitution while providing better outlets for women in prostitution other than prison time/criminal charges.

I can show mountains of evidence that legality and regulation of prostitution increases child trafficking and sorely helps even of the other terrible statistics I've retrieved it. The stats stay consistent in many European countries where prostitution is legalized.

We obviously agree that pimping and child trafficking are bad, so they are quite rightly outlawed. But why would you seek to curb prostitution? Morality is not defined by statistical correlation with negative events.

 

[dust1n]

Whoop... so what was I saying? The legalization of prostitution in different forms has increased sex trafficking in every country I can find. And, of course, any meaningful 'regulation' of the trade is near impossible to implement, and attempts to do so have failed miserably. For instance, there is no way to regulate effectively the use condoms. STD's are rampant in the prostitution world, increasing further hidden costs of prostitution on society, etc. etc.

 

[dust1n]

And I suppose it's no surprise that I'm also a supporter.





We obviously agree that pimping and child trafficking are bad, so they are quite rightly outlawed. But why would you seek to curb prostitution? Morality is not defined by statistical correlation with negative events.

Because prostitution, pimping and child trafficking is so innately tangled, there is no effective method at separating them with any form of legalization, not that I am aware of so far. I'm really not concerned about the morality of the situation, the overall effect on women is so dauntingly terrible, and there is no method of prostitution that seems to address this.

 

[Revoltingest]

We obviously agree that pimping and child trafficking are bad, so they are quite rightly outlawed. But why would you seek to curb prostitution? Morality is not defined by statistical correlation with negative events.

I suspect several possible reasons:
- Prudery
- Religion
- A brand of feminism which sees women as inherently victimized by men
- Seeing no value in prostitution

 

[Zoe Doidge]

Because prostitution, pimping and child trafficking is so innately tangled, there is no effective method at separating them with any form of legalization, not that I am aware of so far. I'm really not concerned about the morality of the situation, the overall effect on women is so dauntingly terrible, and there is no method of prostitution that seems to address this.

I would think the method is fairly obvious. Provide a location, enforce STI/background checks on the prostitutes and it gets paid for by the johns. Kind of like the porn industry in most respects.

 

[McBell]

Whoop... so what was I saying? The legalization of prostitution in different forms has increased sex trafficking in every country I can find. And, of course, any meaningful 'regulation' of the trade is near impossible to implement, and attempts to do so have failed miserably. For instance, there is no way to regulate effectively the use condoms. STD's are rampant in the prostitution world, increasing further hidden costs of prostitution on society, etc. etc.

Please show the link between the legalization of prostitution in the USA and an increase in sex trafficking.

 

[dust1n]

I would think the method is fairly obvious. Provide a location, enforce STI/background checks on the prostitutes and it gets paid for by the johns. Kind of like the porn industry in most respects.

Provide a location? Tell me more about this location and how it operates.

 

[Zoe Doidge]

Provide a location? Tell me more about this location and how it operates.

The actual physical building just needs to be located near clients/staff and be reasonably easy to secure, like any business.

 

[Skwim]

Once a pro-prostitution guy, lately I've begun to see that the intractable bad side effects won't be going away if we legalize it. So, while I see absolutely nothing wrong with anyone of legal age freely prostituting herself/himself for sex, I can also see such acceptance making the climate easier for the unscrupulous to take advantage of others. Therefore, I have changed my opinion and feel prostitution should remain illegal.

 

[Zoe Doidge]

I can also see such acceptance making the climate easier for the unscrupulous to take advantage of others.

Um, how?

 

[dust1n]

Please show the link between the legalization of prostitution in the USA and an increase in sex trafficking.

How can I show the link between legalization of prostitution in the USA and an increase in sex trafficking when legalization of prostitution in the USA has never been the case?

I guess, to clarify, when I say "The legalization of prostitution in different forms has increased sex trafficking in every country I can find," I'm referring to every country that has legalized prostitution has saw increases in sex trafficking in their own country. Sorry, that could have been clearer.

Brothels have been legal too long in Nevada to cite stats before it's beginning and there is no available information concerning individual counties, as out of the 18 separate counties, there is only 22 legal brothels.


But if you are looking for other countries, I can go through specifics or lead you to some evidence of various sorts.

"The researchers used a global sample of 116 countries. They found that countries where prostitution is legal tend to experience a higher reported inflow of human trafficking than countries in which prostitution is prohibited.


The article’s authors also looked in more detail at Sweden, Germany and Denmark, which changed their prostitution laws during the past 13 years. Sweden prohibited it in 1999, while Germany further legalised it by allowing third-party involvement in 2002. Denmark decriminalised it in 1999 so that self-employed prostitution is legal, but brothel operation is still forbidden.



Germany showed a sharp increase in reports of human trafficking upon fully legalising prostitution in 2002. The number of human trafficking victims in 2004 in Denmark, where it is decriminalised, was more than four times that of Sweden, where it is illegal, although the population size of Sweden is about 40 per cent larger.



Eric Neumayer, Professor of Environment and Development at LSE, commented; "Most victims of international human trafficking are women and girls coerced into the sex industry abroad. We wanted to find out if legalised prostitution increases or reduces demand for trafficked women. One theory is that legalised prostitution reduces demand because legally residing prostitutes are favoured over trafficked ones after legalisation. However, our research suggests that in countries where prostitution is legalised, there is such a significant expansion of the prostitution market that the end result is larger reported inflows of human trafficking. While legalising prostitution can have positive effects on the working conditions of those legally employed in the industry, it also appears to boost the market for this fast-growing global criminal industry."

Legalised prostitution increases human trafficking - 12 - 2012 - News archive - News - News and media - Home


If you want to talk about another country, let me know.

 

[dust1n]

The actual physical building just needs to be located near clients/staff and be reasonably easy to secure, like any business.

Who owns it, who runs it? Are only prostitutes allowed to operate these buildings? Can a non-prostitute purchase a legal brothel? Isn't that in every sense of the word, the same as a pimp?

In other words, how can any of these physical buildings exist without incorporating a pimp into the equation. Anyone who owns an establishment as such would be a pimp? No? Wouldn't even a cursory investigation into Nevada brothels expose the similarities to the working conditions of prostitutes to that of illegal brothels?

 

[McBell]

How can I show the link between legalization of prostitution in the USA and an increase in sex trafficking when legalization of prostitution in the USA has never been the case?

I am finding it extremely difficult to take your claim seriously when you do not even know that there is a county in Nevada that has legalized prostitution...

 

[Zoe Doidge]

Who owns it, who runs it?

Could be government run, or it could be privately owned. As long as regulation applies it doesn't matter much.

Are only prostitutes allowed to operate these buildings?

I would think someone with a background in management would be more suitable.

Can a non-prostitute purchase a legal brothel?

Depends on how you set it up. If they're government run then no, unless the government was selling it off to be used as something else.

Isn't that in every sense of the word, the same as a pimp?

Yep, the only difference is the regulation involved.

In other words, how can any of these physical buildings exist without incorporating a pimp into the equation. Anyone who owns an establishment as such would be a pimp? No? Wouldn't even a cursory investigation into Nevada brothels expose the similarities to the working conditions of prostitutes to that of illegal brothels?

Being in the UK I have no idea how things are run in Nevada.

 

[Father Heathen]

Consenting adults, victimless crime, etc.

 

[dust1n]

I am finding it extremely difficult to take your claim seriously when you do not even know that there is a county in Nevada that has legalized prostitution...

So you explicitly ignored my disclaimer regarding Nevada?

You know, this: "Brothels have been legal too long in Nevada to cite stats before it's beginning and there is no available information concerning individual counties, as out of the 18 separate counties, there is only 22 legal brothels."

But if you wondering about those awesome working conditions that amount to state-sanctioned pimp-ery, that kinda of information is widely available.

 

[dust1n]

Consenting adults, victimless crime, etc.

Indeed. That's why I keep citing that certain studies have showed up the %89 of prostitutes interviewed found themselves wanting to leave prostitution but finding it impossible to do.

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/pdf/Prostitutionin9Countries.pdf

No victims here, the majority of women who are beaten and raped in the profession.

 

[McBell]

So you explicitly ignored my disclaimer regarding Nevada?

You know, this: "Brothels have been legal too long in Nevada to cite stats before it's beginning and there is no available information concerning individual counties, as out of the 18 separate counties, there is only 22 legal brothels."

But if you wondering about those awesome working conditions that amount to state-sanctioned pimp-ery, that kinda of information is widely available.

No, I did not ignore it.

I took it for what it seemed like then and still seems like now: back peddling...