Prostitution Argument (continued from “Iceland to ban porn on the web because of children”)

[McBell]

From what I'm gathering from the information presented here is that the demand for sex for money far exceeds the willing suppliers of sex for money. One way to cut down on the demand is by making it illegal. (This speaks volumes about human nature to me.)

making it illegal does nothing to "cut down" the demand...

 

[crossfire]

making it illegal does nothing to "cut down" the demand...

I'm not buying into the idea that more people would not seek out prostitutes if they didn't have to worry about being arrested or catching an STD.

I'm also not buying into the idea that legalizing prostitution will increase the supply of willing providers.

 

[McBell]

I'm not buying into the idea that more people would not seek out prostitutes if they didn't have to worry about being arrested or catching an STD.

I'm also not buying into the idea that legalizing prostitution will increase the supply of willing providers.

I am not buying that merely making something illegal "cuts down" the demand for said something.

It sure didn't work with alcohol, abortion...

 

[Revoltingest]

Oh no, the money talks all parties.
Daily Kos: Nevada Republicans strongly back*prostitution

Hah...better still!
Even Republicans (albeit, in just one state) out-liberal the Democrats

I like it when boundaries are crossed & blurred.

 

[crossfire]

I am not buying that merely making something illegal "cuts down" the demand for said something.

It sure didn't work with alcohol, abortion...

Well, that is true. Alcohol does not require consent to be consumed, and the supply of alcohol can easily be increased to meet demand without violating human rights (forcing people into making and providing alcohol.) Similarly, people are not being forced into providing abortions against their will--a ready supply will meet the demand without coercion.

Can the same be said about prostitution? Will legalizing it increase the willing suppliers enough to meet the demand without coercion? I'm very skeptical about this.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I don't believe it's human nature, I believe it speaks volumes about how johns view women and how our legal system and society in general views prostitution and how we are letting these women down. The sex industry is the only industry in which women can make more than men in general, what does this say about how we view women?

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't believe it's human nature, I believe it speaks volumes about how johns view women and how our legal system and society in general views prostitution and how we are letting these women down. The sex industry is the only industry in which women can make more than men in general, what does this say about how we view women?

They're over-paid?

 

[4consideration]

I don't, personally, think that prostitution is a good idea and would probably not recommend it as a professional choice to a friend. But, I don't see a valid argument for making it illegal.

Politically, I don't see any difference between recognizing a woman's right (woman of legal age) to have the freedom choice to do what she wishes with her own body when it comes to abortion, and the subject of prostitution. If you recognize a right of a woman to have an abortion and consider that decision none of your business, from where do you get the authority to determine that she should not be allowed to have sex for money?

edit: This post was not directed at anyone in particular -- only to those that are arguing against the legalization of prostitution, but are in favor of legalized abortion.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't, personally, think that prostitution is a good idea and would probably not recommend it as a professional choice to a friend. But, I don't see a valid argument for making it illegal.
Politically, I don't see any difference between recognizing a woman's right (woman of legal age) to have the freedom choice to do what she wishes with her own body when it comes to abortion, and the subject of prostitution. If you recognize a right of a woman to have an abortion and consider that decision none of your business, from where do you get the authority to determine that she should not be allowed to have sex for money?
edit: This post was not directed at anyone in particular -- only to those that are arguing against the legalization of prostitution, but are in favor of legalized abortion.

If you say this too loudly, you might find Libertarian Party recruiters darkening your door.

 

[crossfire]

I don't, personally, think that prostitution is a good idea and would probably not recommend it as a professional choice to a friend. But, I don't see a valid argument for making it illegal.

Politically, I don't see any difference between recognizing a woman's right (woman of legal age) to have the freedom choice to do what she wishes with her own body when it comes to abortion, and the subject of prostitution. If you recognize a right of a woman to have an abortion and consider that decision none of your business, from where do you get the authority to determine that she should not be allowed to have sex for money?

edit: This post was not directed at anyone in particular -- only to those that are arguing against the legalization of prostitution, but are in favor of legalized abortion.

If prostitution was legal, then what would stop a boss prone to sexual harassment from putting giving sexual favors to the boss as part of the job description? (Even after the person was hired--especially if the employment was to be contracted for a set period of time?) Isn't that often how the sex industry lures many of its workers in? Offer them one form of employment then switch to another?

 

[Father Heathen]

Well, that is true. Alcohol does not require consent to be consumed, and the supply of alcohol can easily be increased to meet demand without violating human rights (forcing people into making and providing alcohol.) Similarly, people are not being forced into providing abortions against their will--a ready supply will meet the demand without coercion.

Can the same be said about prostitution? Will legalizing it increase the willing suppliers enough to meet the demand without coercion? I'm very skeptical about this.

I imagine that, if legalized, it would require licencing and regulation. How many people in our society who give massages, manicures, do hair, etc. that are unwillingly forced into it?

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't believe it's human nature, I believe it speaks volumes about how johns view women and how our legal system and society in general views prostitution and how we are letting these women down. The sex industry is the only industry in which women can make more than men in general, what does this say about how we view women?

I think the fact that we've made their personal choice a dangerous one by forcing it underground and then attempting to punish them for it lets these women down.

 

[4consideration]

If prostitution was legal, then what would stop a boss prone to sexual harassment from putting giving sexual favors to the boss as part of the job description? (Even after the person was hired--especially if the employment was to be contracted for a set period of time?) Isn't that often how the sex industry lures many of its workers in? Offer them one form of employment then switch to another?

You didn't answer my question.

If you are in favor of viewing the issue of abortion as the sole right to decide on the part of the woman involved -- and that it is no one else's business because it is HER body -- where do you get the authority (or how do you justify) dictating to her that SHE cannot use her body as she sees fit -- and have sex with another adult for money?

(I am not arguing in favor of any individual woman choosing to engage in prostitution. I, personally, think it's usually a really bad idea -- for a lot of reasons.)

A lot of the negative effects of abortion are put aside in the debate because the issues rests upon the position that the woman should be the one to decide. I ask you, why would that same right NOT apply here?

 

[4consideration]

I think the fact that we've made their personal choice a dangerous one by forcing it underground and then attempting to punish them for it lets these women down.

I agree. I think that there are a lot of women that engage in prostitution at this time that do not contact the police when needed -- because they are being harmed in the process of doing something that is illegal.

 

[crossfire]

You didn't answer my question.

If you are in favor of viewing the issue of abortion as the sole right to decide on the part of the woman involved -- and that it is no one else's business because it is HER body -- where do you get the authority (or how do you justify) dictating to her that SHE cannot use her body as she sees fit -- and have sex with another adult for money?

Denying an early abortion is like forcing her into going through the pregnancy.

(I am not arguing in favor of any individual woman choosing to engage in prostitution. I, personally, think it's usually a really bad idea -- for a lot of reasons.)

Glad to hear that.

A lot of the negative effects of abortion are put aside in the debate because the issues rests upon the position that the woman should be the one to decide. I ask you, why would that same right NOT apply here?

You can't sell your body organs for profit either, (except for blood, plasma, and sperm.)

 

[4consideration]

Denying an early abortion is like forcing her into going through the pregnancy.

Glad to hear that.

You can't sell your body organs for profit either, (except for blood, plasma, and sperm.)

A prostitute does not selling her body organs. She rents them. Are in favor of making surrogate motherhood illegal?

Please answer the question.

If abortion is the choice of only the woman involved, where does the authority come from to tell a woman that she cannot have sex for money? Why does she not have the right to do what she wants with her own body in this case?

 

[crossfire]

A prostitute does not selling her body organs. She rents them. Are in favor of making surrogate motherhood illegal?

At least in my state, you can't be a surrogate mother for profit.

Please answer the question.

"I thought I did.

If abortion is the choice of only the woman involved, where does the authority come from to tell a woman that she cannot have sex for money? Why does she not have the right to do what she wants with her own body in this case?

If it is just the prostitute involved in the money aspect, I really don't have too much of a beef with it. When others stand to make money or gain power from it, I do have a beef with that.

 

[4consideration]

"I thought I did.

I can see that you thought you did, but I don't think you did.

I asked why does the same right to be the sole decision maker on what happens to her body in the case of an abortion NOT APPLY as the right to be the sole decision maker on what happens her body in the choice of whether or not to engage in prostitution -- and thereby justify making it illegal.

You said because denying an abortion would be forcing her to go through a pregnancy.

I am trying to figure out what else may be there in the argument to justify WHY someone thinks they have the authority to butt-in on that issue in a person's life, but butt-out on another -- when I see that the same principle ought to apply.

WHY does personal autonomy over one's body NOT APPLY for the issue of prostitution?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I think the fact that we've made their personal choice a dangerous one by forcing it underground and then attempting to punish them for it lets these women down.

In my country it's legal to be a prostitute in your own home, street prostitution is illegal, it's still a dangerous "choice" when marginalised groups choose prostitution it's more about a lack of choices.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

They're over-paid?

Missing the point?