Protestant and Catholic theological differences.

[Brian2]

Correct.

But we also have to remember that Paul refers to this "Community" as being of "one body", and we see in the gospels that Jesus created this "one body" with the appointing of the Twelve and giving power to them to lead his "Community" as being his "one body". Jesus "taught with authority", as did the Twelve, and as did their appointees.

Therefore, the "Community" was never considered a "just do your own thing" entity, which is also why the canon of the Bible was formed by this same "Community" in the 4th century as a continuation of that authority.

I can certainly see the advantage of one authority to teach the one teaching. It's unfortunate that the disunity of the Church had to come to this, but that is history now. The good part is that there is still unity as one body of Christ even if there is division along doctrinal lines. We all have the Truth however, which is Christ, and He is working to unite us more fully still even if we are split on the surface.

It is not my role, nor the "Community's" role, to determine one's fate with God, but it is the "Community's" role to lead and make decisions over time, which is what literally all churches do anyway. We view that people in other denominations are brothers & sisters in
Christ, but we don't judge others that may be in other religions or are atheists because that's God's role. After all, they were and are from God as well, ioo.

Yes it is good not to judge the world, that is Jesus job. I do feel some affinity for what I perceive to be the Catholic doctrine that we do not have to be Christian to be saved, but I,m not sure about Purgatory, Limbo and even Hell, but that's just me and a certain empathy with non Christians and seeing that many are better people than I am. But as I say, it's all up to Jesus and we just trust Him and whatever the outcome I hope we will be given understanding.

 

[Brian2]

So, your church has no "teachings" beyond what's word-for-word in the Bible? If that's truly the case, why even belong to the church? Maybe just sit home with your Bible in hand and relax, and then just imagine on how much money you'll save? Now, seriously, I'm certainly not recommending you do that.

I was brought up as a Catholic and have been to a variety of places since and sometime none. Fellowship of other Christians is certainly a good thing. We are all there to love and help each other by whatever gifts God has given us. I go to an Anglican Church, but not because I agree with every since Anglican doctrine, I do not even know them all. I can participate fully there however and it is a bit of a diverse lot who do not agree on everything, but that is OK.

Why are you trying to dictate what we teach? I assume you don't attend mass, so why are you being so condescending in telling us what we must supposedly believe and teach?

As far as the "ex cathedra" concept is concerned, I have no clue whether it is entirely correct, partially correct, or entirely wrong, nor is my Catholic faith contingent on accepting it.

I did not think I was being condescending. I do see the Ex Cathedra dogmas as divisive however and am not sure why these things were added in the first place.
When it comes to condescending I guess I feel that way at time about what I see as the attitude of some Catholics to other Christians, as if we are second class Christians.

The CC is not the Gestapo, therefore, even though you seemingly have some sort of weird concept of the Church especially after I explained that we have the right of personal discernment, you seem intent on twisting what we actually do teach.

It is not the Gestapo any more, true, it has reformed in that respect. I may have some sort of weird concepts of Catholic teaching, it has been a while since I was a Catholic.

Personally, I think you should maybe be more into about what your own church teaches. We don't tell you what your church/denomination must supposedly teach as that's none of our business.

I can take a hint, but it is good to discuss these things amongst Christian in a friendly way,,,,,,,,,,,which is the way I thought we were doing it.

In over 50 years of attending mass, never once did I ever hear a bishop or priest criticize Protestantism. It's too bad that we aren't treated with the same kind of respect that we now treat you.

BTW, I say "now" above as it wasn't always this way with the Church throughout all of our history, which I make no excuse for.

It is sad that the CC is not treated with the same kind of respect. I'm in no way a hard line anti Catholic Protestant, as some are. Satan certainly knows how to divide and conquer when it comes to the Church of Christ.

 

[metis]

I go to an Anglican Church, but not because I agree with every since Anglican doctrine,

I have been to numerous Anglican ("Episcopalian" here in the States) services both here and in Canada, and I always felt "at home".

When it comes to condescending I guess I feel that way at time about what I see as the attitude of some Catholics to other Christians, as if we are second class Christians.

I have not experienced that with any of the Catholic clergy but I have seen it with a couple of Catholics here over the years at RF and at a couple of other websites. We are not encouraged to be and act like that, but not all Catholics got the "memo" on that apparently.

BTW, the nastiest person I've ever "experienced" at a religious website was, believe it or not, a Buddhist monk, and he was even terribly hostile with some of his fellow Buddhists. A person p.m.'ed me and expressed shock because he had taken meditation lessons from him and never saw him act like that.

It is sad that the CC is not treated with the same kind of respect. I'm in no way a hard line anti Catholic Protestant, as some are. Satan certainly knows how to divide and conquer when it comes to the Church of Christ.

Amen to dat.

Take care.

 

[Dogknox20]

I think I made that clear in my answer to No1. You can have the Holy Spirit AND everything might go wrong, as was the case with Balaam.
However, the Bible verse you quoted does not mention the Catholic Church.

thomas t QUESTION #1 Did the Holy Spirit help the Catholic Church decide the Inspired words of God when she made the bible? Yes or No!?
13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.

thomas t your reply is YES! ... God's spirit did not fail to guide the CC

And yes you are right .... The Holy Spirit guided the Catholic Church when she made her bible! The bible is truly the Inspired Words of God because the Holy Spirit was the GUIDE the Holy Spirit cannot guide into error!

thomas t The scriptures tell believers.. The Holy Spirit is FOREVER WITH the Church Jesus established...
thomas t QUESTION #2 Is the Holy Spirit FOREVER WITH the Catholic Church the same Church that made your bible? Yes or No!?
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.

WE KNOW and be positively sure the Church that received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost STILL to this day... FOREVER has the Holy Spirit as her GUIDE!

The Holy Spirit is FOREVER WITH the One Church Jesus established the ONLY church "Built on ROCK" not on sand; never to fail!
Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the end of the world! ALWAYS WITH the ONLY CHURCH he built on ROCK never to fail because it was NOT built on sand!
thomas t The Catholic Church NO Other put the bible together with the help of God... ONLY the Inspired words of God are in the Bible we can be sure because the Holy Spirit cannot lead into error! The Catholic Church came before the bible.... NO OTHER Church!
The Great Commission... Matthew 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

We KNOW Jesus is ALWAYS WITH HIS CHURCH he built and established on ROCK before he ascended into heaven. There is no other church except The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.. No other has roots back to the Apostles, No other is Guided by the Holy Spirit into ALL TRUTH! No other is Guided FOREVER into all truth by the Holy Spirit!

The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS FOREVER WITH the ONLY Church Jesus built on ROCK not on sand... Martin Luther was removed as a False teacher FROM the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.. He was REMOVED he was treated as PAGAN! Martin Luther the father of the TRADITION "Scripture Alone" and "Faith ALONE" was removed from the Holy Spirit and truth!
FACT... "The Catholic Church" was NOT removed from Martin Luther!

The Holy Spirit is forever with A CHURCH Martin Luther was NOT a CHURCH! The TRADITIONS he started cannot be from the Holy Spirit!

 

[thomas t]

you've repeated yourself over and over again, I hate this!

thomas t The scriptures tell believers.. The Holy Spirit is FOREVER WITH the Church Jesus established...

+

Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church to the end of the world! ALWAYS WITH the ONLY CHURCH he built on ROCK never to fail because it was NOT built on sand!

I told you in #163: as I said... which one.
I explained you already in #141: even if the Bible says "church", that doesn't necessarily mean the Catholic one. I hate repeating myself over and over again.

thomas t The scriptures tell believers.. The Holy Spirit is FOREVER WITH the Church Jesus established...

I've answered this already.
As I said in #179:
As I said, as Galatians 3:27-28 pointed out, it's by baptism in Christ that you become part of the entirety which is his church/ the body/ the bride, as I see it. That's the body Jesus is always with.
Even if for a time 100% of all baptised Christians were Catholics... it doesn't have to have remained so.
This entirety may change over time. Today we see people baptized in Christ that don't belong to the Catholic church, at all.
Of course God can have left the Catholic church, I think. There is no guarantee made to organisations.
I hate repeating myself.

thomas t QUESTION #2 Is the Holy Spirit FOREVER WITH the Catholic Church the same Church that made your bible? Yes or No!?

But I answered this!
In my previous post I wrote in answering this very question:
I think I made that clear in my answer to No1. You can have the Holy Spirit AND everything might go wrong, as was the case with Balaam.
However, the Bible verse you quoted does not mention the Catholic Church.

This was repetitions only. I hate this. I hate going round in circles with you!

 

[Dogknox20]

explained you already in #141: even if the Bible says "church", that doesn't necessarily mean the Catholic one. I hate repeating myself over and over again.

The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The ONE Church Jesus built on ROCK not on sand it will never fail!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that the Holy Spirit is with FOREVER!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that the Holy Spirit is Guiding into ALL TRUTH.. Forever!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church Jesus is always with to the very end of the World!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church the Body of Jesus; ONE CHURCH!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that decided the inspired words of God being lead by the Holy Spirit!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that 3000 people were Added to on the first day of Pentecost by Baptism!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church same Church we are to listen to or risk being removed as Pagan!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that has the AUTHORITY of God to teach ALL Nations!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean ONE Church that cannot fail; It means NO MAN MADE CHURCHES claiming they have to Re-FORM the church Jesus lost!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean NO churches formed by men! Luther, Russell, Calvin, King Henry, White, Smith, Campbell, Simpson, Dowie, Parham etc etc
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean the Church Jesus died for and the ONLY Church that is Holy without stain BLAMELESS!

Jesus cannot have left the Catholic Church or he becomes a liar; God cannot lie if he did lie he would not be perfect, he would not be God!
Jesus is ALWAYS WITH TO THE END OF THE WORLD the same Church the Holy Spirit came upon at Pentecost to remain FOREVER.. That is the ONLY Church!

You said... She in the bible represents the whole bride of Christ the church and not just one of the lively stones that make up the spiritual unseen house. IF....
thomas t If you want to believe Jesus is with all MAN MADE churches then you must believe God will teach ERROR! No two of these thousands of Man Made churches teaches the same thing! PROVING... The Holy Spirit CANNOT be guiding any of these thousands of Man Made churches! The Holy Spirit cannot guide into error!
FACT: The Holy Spirit is FOREVER with the Two Thousand year old Church Jesus built on ROCK! FOREVER WITH never to leave the Holy Church the same Church the Holy Spirit came upon at Pentecost!
The Church Jesus built is VISIBLE! The Church has elders that make doctrine the Church that Baptize to immerse people into The Body of Jesus! People are VISIBLE Jesus was VISIBLE!

 

[Dogknox20]

I explained you already in #141: even if the Bible says "church", that doesn't necessarily mean the Catholic one. I hate repeating myself over and over again.

But I answered this!
In my previous post I wrote in answering this very question:
I think I made that clear in my answer to No1. You can have the Holy Spirit AND everything might go wrong, as was the case with Balaam.
However, the Bible verse you quoted does not mention the Catholic Church.

To teach as your church and all man made Protestant churches do that the Church needs to be "Re-Formed" tells me and you scriptures must be rejected! The Holy Spirit cannot lead into error... Satan can and does lead into error!

The bible represents only ONE CHURCH the ONLY Church that received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost FOREVER this is the body of Christ! This Church at Pentecost and not any of the thousands of man made churches with roots back to the Protesters! THINK....
Logic alone should tell you>> The Holy Spirit is FOREVER GUIDING The Church Jesus built on rock! Martin Luther is one man he is NOT church he started the TRADITION of "Scriptures & Faith ALONE" Luther was removed from The Church as a false teacher! Martin Luther is NOT Church, he CANNOT have the Holy Spirit! He was removed as a Pagan because he rejected and refused to listen to the CHURCH! He had to reject the scriptures God' holy words to teach the Church failed!
thomas t All who teach Jesus failed, that Jesus built on sand and that they need to form "anew" a body for Jesus; have fallen for the lies of Satan! All who believe the teaching of the False Teacher Martin Luther have fallen for the lies of Satan because The TRADITIONS of "Faith and Scriptures ALONE" remove the Church from salvation!
All who have rejected the Church, the same church the Holy Spirit is ALWAYS with, the same church of Pentecost for the man made TRADITIONS of "Faith and Scriptures ALONE" have rejected the Body of Jesus! Martin Luther could NOT have been guided by the Holy Spirit; one man does NOT make church!

Even as with Balaam God never fails, Jesus cannot fail! One Church BUILT ON ROCK!

 

[thomas t]

The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The ONE Church Jesus built on ROCK not on sand it will never fail!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that the Holy Spirit is with FOREVER!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that the Holy Spirit is Guiding into ALL TRUTH.. Forever!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church Jesus is always with to the very end of the World!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church the Body of Jesus; ONE CHURCH!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that decided the inspired words of God being lead by the Holy Spirit!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that 3000 people were Added to on the first day of Pentecost by Baptism!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church same Church we are to listen to or risk being removed as Pagan!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean The Church that has the AUTHORITY of God to teach ALL Nations!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean ONE Church that cannot fail; It means NO MAN MADE CHURCHES claiming they have to Re-FORM the church Jesus lost!
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean NO churches formed by men! Luther, Russell, Calvin, King Henry, White, Smith, Campbell, Simpson, Dowie, Parham etc etc
The bible says "the Church" it can only mean the Church Jesus died for and the ONLY Church that is Holy without stain BLAMELESS!

impressive style. You managed to name all characteristics of the church.
But again, as I said in #225:
I told you in #163:[...]
I explained you already in #141: even if the Bible says "church", that doesn't necessarily mean the Catholic one. I hate repeating myself over and over again.

thomas t All who teach Jesus failed, that Jesus built on sand and that they need to form "anew" a body for Jesus;

As I said in # 141
But in Revelation 3:16, when Jesus casts off a church that started off as a good one, there is no mention of Jesus or God having failed. Cutting off a church does not mean Jesus having failed!
I hate repeating myself over and over again.
Can we finally stop going round in circles now?
You are stealing my time.

The Holy Spirit cannot lead into error... Satan can and does lead into error! [...]
Logic alone should tell you>> The Holy Spirit is FOREVER GUIDING The Church Jesus built on rock!

I answered this already in # 225.
I wrote: In my previous post I wrote [...] You can have the Holy Spirit AND everything might go wrong, as was the case with Balaam.
I hate to repeat myself over and over again.
In this context, you bring one new point to the table, though:

Even as with Balaam God never fails, Jesus cannot fail!

But Balaam was one of the examples how Christians should not be. Those who follow the ways of Balaam are the fallen ones: Jude 1:11. And that one did have the Holy Spirit, I think. As you say the CC has.
I don't reject the body of Jesus.


I haven't fallen to the lies of Satan.
Moreover, I don't teach that the Catholic Church needs to be reformed. I don't care about them.

 

[Dogknox20]

As a protestant, I do acknowledge and respect Mary (though I don't ask her to pray on my behalf).

Imagine the knowledge that you could be stoned for being pregnant out of wedlock and the "words" that are spoken about her (while we get concerned if someone speaks bad about us). What faith that she would believe the impossible to be possible (while we struggle for the smallest of issues). What boldness to come to her fiancee and trust God (while we struggle in just sharing Jesus).

So, I do respect her very highly as an example of faith (Follow them who by faith and patience inherit the promises).

Of course, I disagree with other attributes given to her but accentuate that which is still true.

And kudos for your first post!

KenS I point you to scriptures telling Catholics; Mary is our Mother!
Luke 1:46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.

KenS The "From Now On" is Scripture Prophesy! The moment the words left Mary' mouth the prophesy started; for 2000 years all IN Mary's family have in deed honored her as Blessed! Catholics have ALWAYS honored Mary as Blessed! God commands "Honor your father and Mother"! Catholic' know Jesus honors Mary his mother because he MUST honor her if he did not honor Mary his mother he would be sinning, if God was to sin he would NOT be perfect, thus would NOT be God!
KenS Catholic' are IMMERSED into the risen, never to die again Holy Catholic body of Jesus, we are "In Jesus" thus Mary is our Mother!
To be in a GENERATION you must be in the Family; Mary's family started with this Prophesy! Only the Catholic Church can say.. "YES we have always honored our Mother as Blessed"! Because Mary is my Mother logically that can only mean; Jesus is my brother! Jesus is My Brother thus God HAS TO BE My father!
KenS It is just this simple! WE KNOW...

KenS we know Mary is in heaven she is more alive and closer to God then anyone here on earth! Mary can hear our prayers, she can hear the prayers of all her 1.2 Billion children!
Jesus to us through Mary & Us to Jesus through Mary His Mother! Mary is Queen of Heaven.. The Mother of the King is always honored as "Queen Mother" the OT has examples! The Queen wears a crown... God can only honor Mary in a way that only a God could!
This passage can only mean Mary!
12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

To honor the Mother of the King is Honoring the King! To reject the Mother of the King as being ordinary is a dishonor and insult to the King!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Although I am an outsider, it seems to me that the real difference between Protestants and Catholics can be boiled down to what they consider authoritative for doctrine. Protestants are sola scriptura, bible alone, and Catholics are Bible plus the Church (or more accurately, the Church, since the bible is part of the Church).

If they shared the same authority, the disagreements about Mary, prayer to the saints, real presence, purgatory, confession, etc., would disappear.

 

[metis]

If they shared the same authority, the disagreements about Mary, prayer to the saints, real presence, purgatory, confession, etc., would disappear.

Not really because even if we went by scripture alone there would be differences of opinion and application. On top of that, the CC allows for personal discernment, plus there's often disagreement within the magisterium itself.

 

[thomas t]

@metis , @pcarl , @Dogknox20 ...
this is for you

The Catholic Church did seem to think that people can roast in hell for their beliefs, statements, and ultimately their opinions.

Greetings.

 

[metis]

Heaven or hell is not for us to judge.

Instead, it's best for us to remember the Seven Deadly Sins, which are categories of sin we should always try to avoid even though it's not a complete list: Seven deadly sins - Wikipedia , which are pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony, and sloth.