Protestantism leads to atheism

[QuestioningMind]

I strongly believe the Protestant rebellion of 1517 and the current Protestant churches have created atheism, by accident because if one denies the real presence in the Eucharist and other miracles such as incuruptable saints the next step eventually is to deny the existence of the resurrection and then Gods existence it self

What a silly notion. Atheists have been around as long as theists have been around trying to force them to accept their delusions.

 

[Milton Platt]

I strongly believe the Protestant rebellion of 1517 and the current Protestant churches have created atheism, by accident because if one denies the real presence in the Eucharist and other miracles such as incuruptable saints the next step eventually is to deny the existence of the resurrection and then Gods existence it self

When you get around to supporting your assertion with evidence, I will take a look.

 

[Talmai]

I strongly believe the Protestant rebellion of 1517 and the current Protestant churches have created atheism, by accident because if one denies the real presence in the Eucharist and other miracles such as incuruptable saints the next step eventually is to deny the existence of the resurrection and then Gods existence it self

Adamski,

With the exception of the Reformed and certain traditions that developed outside the parameters of the magisterial Reformation, the real presence is a doctrine in Lutheranism and most forms of Anglicanism. Many if not most people within the United Methodist Church also believe in it. As a Lutheran I certainly confess the Eucharist is the true Body and Blood of our Lord, and I reject anything contrary to that. I should also mention that I believe in the incorruptibility of certain saints because the evidence is there within Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches.

As a fellow Christian of the Western Catholic tradition I ask that you would in charity take some time to read recent ecumenical statements signed by Catholic and Lutheran representatives. You would be surprised regarding how close we are really are. Luther's nailing of the 95 Theses in 1517 was no rebellion. Rome acknowledges he was addressing abuses and corruption in the Church and that he was legitimately concerned for the Church he loved. The reformer did not leave the Church of Rome to found a new Church, rather, he was "kicked out." He and his colleagues retained their catholicity, and today we Lutherans still love you all, just as we love the Eastern church bodies.

Many factors lead to atheism in countries that are traditionally Christian. It is the devil and the spirit of the age that should be blamed.

God bless!

 

[Milton Platt]

Adamski,

With the exception of the Reformed and certain traditions that developed outside the parameters of the magisterial Reformation, the real presence is a doctrine in Lutheranism and most forms of Anglicanism. Many if not most people within the United Methodist Church also believe in it. As a Lutheran I certainly confess the Eucharist is the true Body and Blood of our Lord, and I reject anything contrary to that. I should also mention that I believe in the incorruptibility of certain saints because the evidence is there within Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches.

As a fellow Christian of the Western Catholic tradition I ask that you would in charity take some time to read recent ecumenical statements signed by Catholic and Lutheran representatives. You would be surprised regarding how close we are really are. Luther's nailing of the 95 Theses in 1517 was no rebellion. Rome acknowledges he was addressing abuses and corruption in the Church and that he was legitimately concerned for the Church he loved. The reformer did not leave the Church of Rome to found a new Church, rather, he was "kicked out." He and his colleagues retained their catholicity, and today we Lutherans still love you all, just as we love the Eastern church bodies.

Many factors lead to atheism in countries that are traditionally Christian. It is the devil and the spirit of the age that should be blamed.

God bless!

Although I am an atheist, I am impressed with your response. It brings me no closer to believing in the supernatural, but it is refreshing to see a theist that does his homework.

 

[columbus]

I strongly believe that Catholicism led to Protestantism which led to, gasp, Mormons!

I was born and raised Catholic. I still have a deep fondness for the old pile. The RCC literally saved my life. What caused me to leave Christianity were pretty fundamental concepts. The Problem of Evil was a biggy. The oxymoron of Trinitarian Monotheism was another. It wasn't details like transsubstantiation or limbo or any of that. I just kept learning more and more about Christian theology and realizing that I cannot believe that stuff.

But I don't think that the sort of things you are describing will hold onto many educated and rational folks. Only the ignorant and superstitious people, by and large.
Tom

 

[psychoslice]

Thank god they did create atheism, at least there are more people thinking for themselves and not excepting anything told to to them.

 

[Glaurung]

One could argue that liberal secularists are the logical conclusion of the low-church, Protestant ethic. However I'd attribute the rise of atheism as having a lot more to do with the rise of industrialised, consumerist culture. Man as the measure of all things is super appealing when you're fed, educated and secure and live in a culture that encourages the constant seeking of material and sensual gratification.

 

[psychoslice]

Atheism is our only hope for a religious run world, the more atheist the better..

 

[Glaurung]

Atheism is our only hope for a religious run world, the more atheist the better..

And yet they insist that atheism has no content but the lack of belief in any deity concept. Now it's the "hope of the world".

Please, it's 2017. Atheists are not some tiny minority. It is completely mainstream (and almost expected in certain circles) to be an atheist these days.

 

[psychoslice]

And yet they insist that atheism has no content but the lack of belief in any deity concept. Now it's the "hope of the world".

Please, it's 2017. Atheists are not some tiny minority. It is completely mainstream (and almost expected in certain circles) to be an atheist these days.

We are growing, and we will win over the stupid religious beliefs

 

[Glaurung]

We are growing, and we will win over the stupid religious beliefs

My view is that everyone has religious beliefs. Be under no illusion, just because you've thrown out the belief in God doesn't mean you're free from other dogmas. Be careful that you don't validate this very point with any further replies you make to me.

As for the growth of the atheist demographic, that's debatable. Atheism has grown in the western world, but it is declining everywhere else. Russian Orthodoxy had a resurgence after the fall of the Soviet Union, Christianity is growing rapidly in China and Africa, and Islam is going no where any time soon. The Far East isn't exactly embracing western secular atheism either. Japan for example, despite its reputation for being atheistic is still steeped in religious ritual. This isn't mentioning India, and the various regions where Buddhism is entrenched.

The world doesn't need saving by secularist ideologues with utopian fantasies. The last century taught us how disastrous that can be.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I strongly believe the Protestant rebellion of 1517 and the current Protestant churches have created atheism, by accident because if one denies the real presence in the Eucharist and other miracles such as incuruptable saints the next step eventually is to deny the existence of the resurrection and then Gods existence it self

I remain a theist. Not liking organized religion is not rebuking God, unless one is an idolator and equates the two.

They publically vilify minorities and women's rights in the name of this religion, and people start to question the morality of that.

It's not just evangelical Christianity. Even Catholicism has the hubris to tell God whom He can and cannot call into service.

Man as the measure of all things is super appealing when you're fed, educated and secure and live in a culture that encourages the constant seeking of material and sensual gratification.

If God is only seen as being around when you're suffering, though, then God must also answer for why you're suffering in the first place.

 

[Glaurung]

If God is only seen as being around when you're suffering, though, then God must also answer for why you're suffering in the first place.

I have beliefs about that, but they're beyond the scope of this discussion. You may find it counterintuitive, but it isn't suffering that drives people way from religion. It more often than not draws them to it.

For me it makes perfect sense though. When you have everything it numbs your sense of fragility, uncertainty and dependency.

 

[psychoslice]

My view is that everyone has religious beliefs. Be under no illusion, just because you've thrown out the belief in God doesn't mean you're free from other dogmas. Be careful that you don't validate this very point with any further replies you make to me.

As for the growth of the atheist demographic, that's debatable. Atheism has grown in the western world, but it is declining everywhere else. Russian Orthodoxy had a resurgence after the fall of the Soviet Union, Christianity is growing rapidly in China and Africa, and Islam is going no where any time soon. The Far East isn't exactly embracing western secular atheism either. Japan for example, despite its reputation for being atheistic is still steeped in religious ritual. This isn't mentioning India, and the various regions where Buddhism is entrenched.

The world doesn't need saving by secularist ideologues with utopian fantasies. The last century taught us how disastrous that can be.

The world also doesn't need saving by people,who believe in fairy stories.

 

[Glaurung]

The world also doesn't need saving by people,who believe in fairy stories.

You should take your own advice.

 

[LuisDantas]

One could argue that liberal secularists are the logical conclusion of the low-church, Protestant ethic. However I'd attribute the rise of atheism as having a lot more to do with the rise of industrialised, consumerist culture. Man as the measure of all things is super appealing when you're fed, educated and secure and live in a culture that encourages the constant seeking of material and sensual gratification.

That sounds reasonable, but personally I think it is not very accurate.

It is just as easy and slightly more reasonable to guess that there was perhaps never a rise of atheism as such. Instead, the arisal of more specialized, differentiated lifestyles may well have enabled instead (or more often) people who exacerbated belief into an actual personality trait, when that was likely unusual and, in fact, generally unfeasible for most of history.

After all, what could be more appealling (for those so inclined) than being the special project of a creator God who listens to appeals and sometimes even provides miracles under request? It is not like there is a reason why atheism is any less natural or more questionable than overt, exacerbated theism.

 

[Cephus]

Atheism is as ancient as the invention of deities, you know.

Moreso. It is the natural state. It existed before anyone made up gods.

 

[Cephus]

One could argue that liberal secularists are the logical conclusion of the low-church, Protestant ethic. However I'd attribute the rise of atheism as having a lot more to do with the rise of industrialised, consumerist culture. Man as the measure of all things is super appealing when you're fed, educated and secure and live in a culture that encourages the constant seeking of material and sensual gratification.

The rise of atheism is due to an increase in education and science. People simply do not need religious nonsense anymore to explain the world around them.

 

[Muffled]

I strongly believe the Protestant rebellion of 1517 and the current Protestant churches have created atheism, by accident because if one denies the real presence in the Eucharist and other miracles such as incuruptable saints the next step eventually is to deny the existence of the resurrection and then Gods existence it self

I believe protestantism promotes real Christianity. The protest isn't against what the Bible says but the fact that the Roman Catholic Church had strayed so far from it. So if anything it is the RCC that leads people to public display of Christianity while practicing closet atheism.

 

[Muffled]

That is quite a stretch. If anything, Protestant traditions allow a separate path to God that some might not have had otherwise.

I believe it is true that Protestants became more evangelical while the RCC was becoming less evangelical.