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Prove To Me That A God/Deity Exists

There's not and will not be a single piece of evidence in favor of some "god", unless that "god" is another word really. But as for the standard god look at the definition in the dictionary: "Supreme entity that in monotheist religions is considered the creator of the universe". So, If you "think" this universe was "created" as a matter of conscious act by some "entity". Then you are believer, but don't expect to be a connoisseur, because being a connoisseur doesn't "get out" of our heart, is an act of reason, the same another aninal different from us use his reasoning to caught his prey, knowing he wants survival.
 
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jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
Well the only way I believe something as true is if there is proof to back it up. I just don't go believing everything that some dusty old book says. Is it too much to ask for proof of something before you present it to me as fact?

I've directly interacted with spiritual beings that were physically present with me that have physically affected my body.

Well, that is the best argument I got. Also don't ask, I don't suffer from hallucinations, these experiences were not characteristic of any known mental illness and were always in an extremely explicit and magickally involved situation.

Not in my experience. Every religious person I have met has told me that God exists and that is a fact and that if I don't accept that fact, I will go to hell, another fact. All I am saying is prove it.

There's a Hell? News to me. Also what is "God", oh! They must of meant "The God". See, there are thousands of gods, though I recognize seven and two hidden in nine as the manifestations of "The God", however I doubled-up that system to also be metaphors for the external and internal too so that it can either be a agnosticlly theist or atheist should i change my mind later, I'm a strong theist as of now though, but always like to have some skepticism to prevent myself from seeing The Greater Gods in every little event. This system works for me, so hey, why not work with the model? I've found actually though that the external/internal as opposed to extra-physical/physical dualities to be more useful anyways.

My main point is that most of Religion directly conflicts with what we know about the universe. It makes no logical sense to believe in such things. It was our first attempt at understanding our world but it is now obsolete. There is no reason to believe such nonsense.

If taken literally, some of the mainstream religions do, however I've noticed that with religions like my own, we take the scientific view of The Universe anyways, and with religions like Hinduism it's a lot of analogies for greater truths that have not for hundreds of years been taken literally, even if the forms of The All are seen as objectively real (someone correct me if I am wrong).

However disguarding all religion as "nonsense" is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Many, many of the newer religions coming up from the Left hand Path and Paganism seems to get along just fine with science. Hell, a number of Satanists are even atheists and anti-theists! Also I've noticed that Buddhism seems to be very scientifically compatible. Also some are willing to admit that perhaps ancient things like Genesis should be valued more for their mythological and spiritual meaning behind them, I've even seen someone explain how Gensis was w ritten as a numerological myth to more tell some greater spiritual truth. Kind how like Jesus's parables were not literal events, but narratives to make some point of bring some greater truth. In that light, I think that many Old Testament stories were written with perhaps that intent, even if I don't accept the Old Testament as part of my canon. Actually, I don't accept any book as my canon, other than maybe one I've been trying to write down all my beliefs in, but I go through revisions to correct and get rid of broken or useless parts and try different things all the time to make that a somewhat hard endeavor.

Though I could go on and on, spirituality is a very important part of many people's lives, and I don't think it's as useless as you think. Also again I've only really noticed this concept of "Hell" as torture to only really exist in Islam and Christianity. Even in Judaism there is no Hell, but there is Sheol ,the grave.

Ave Satana, that is, Hail Satan.
 
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Super Universe

Defender of God
Why should it be 50 / 50? There's no evidence of any divine being that does anything, the only possible standpoint would be deism. However, the complexity of the universr either has been or will be explained by science. There is no real chance of there being an afterlife / soul becausr consciousness is a product of the brain. Nothing that happens or works needs a supernatural hand. Things such as prayer working can be explained by belief and psychology and divine experiences can be explained by brain activity. If there is not one single thing suggesting a God exists, why should I be 50 / 50? I understand not being able to be sure, but even though there is a slight chance the sun won't rise tomorrow, I'm pretty damn confident it will.

So, what would you consider evidence?

The complexity of the universe will be explained by science? It will, and whatever the scientists think is the First Cause of the universe will be equal to God.

How many countries have you been to? How many PHD's do you have? How many children have you raised? You think you know so much yet you haven't even done 1% of what's possible on the earth yet you're "pretty confident" that you know whether or not there is a creator of the universe?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Very well then this post started off terribly because I failed on explaining what I wanted. Sorry to waste your time.


dont worry about it bud.

some people get all riled up when asked to place their faith under a microscope :cool:


your question is valid, but what heppens as we dig through history is, we see the formation of yahweh as a compilation of deities into one after 622 BC and he was not even native to jews or should I say Israelites, nor the other deities compiled into one.

what real credible evidence with validity could ever come from ancient mens mythology followed by modern man and believed without question. hence the problem you see here no, you questioned it :D
 

Absolute Zero

fon memories
Why would it be possible to even gauge the likelihood or unlikelihood of the existence of such (a) being/force/existence(s)? And were it possible to gauge, what point would that probability have? No, this is not a sensible line of inquiry. What one should instead seek to determine is IF it is possible for the universe to exists as it does with such a supernatural dimension, as well as without.

If it is possible that a supernatural dimension could feasibly exist without preventing the existence of the universe in it's known state(s), there is nothing to prevent the existence of that supernatural dimension (i.e. it is POSSIBLE that supernatural things exist). It is not however possible to take this one step further, to prove that supernatural things exist - since it is possible that anything which we deem 'super'natural is merely a misunderstood part of the natural or else our senses playing tricks on us.



If it is possible that the universe's known state(s) could feasibly exist without the existence of a supernatural dimension, there is nothing to prevent the non-existence of that supernatural dimension (i.e. it is POSSIBLE that supernatural things do not exist). It is not however possible to take this one step further, to prove that supernatural things cannot exist - since it is possible that such a dimension might exist in such a way that no interaction with that dimension can be detected or accurately predicted. Perhaps specific supernatural claims might be disproved (depending on their specificity and falsifiability), but many supernatural claims lack this capacity and are instead unfalsifiable.

That is the limit of our capacity to inquire of the existence of the supernatural.

Dude you just hit the nail in the head with this post..This is exactly in line with my thoughts...Ah..man I wonder if a super natural dimesion?whaterver could ...Hell I belive something like this does exsist ...would love to talk about this with moire people.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I know God exists because I'm supposed to know. It's not possible for me to change this.

God's "holy book" is the universe, not some writings by human men who were afraid of comets. You want real scientific proof that God exists? How about, the universe.

Instead of worrying about what others believe why don't you just live your life.

What do you mean you are supposed to know? How do you know that? Is it just some innate feeling that you have which lets you know that fact that God exists? The universe is not evidence that God exists, and I like that you simply made that statement instead of (failing in) supporting it in any way. The universe is natural and came about by natural means. Before string theory and M-theory we could add God in "before" the big bang, but now we have a cause. Although, who says a singularity could not pop into existence? Particles do.

Some people ask question like this to gain insight. If you don't want to share your beliefs, do not respond. Maybe the OP is like me and wished that someone could show that God exists through evidence and logic (although the OP seems more hate driven honestly). The disappointing thing is that it is not going to happen, as evidence and reason always seem to lean towards atheism.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
Dude you just hit the nail in the head with this post..This is exactly in line with my thoughts...Ah..man I wonder if a super natural dimesion?whaterver could ...Hell I belive something like this does exsist ...would love to talk about this with moire people.
^_- Oh and I made some edits to elaborate since then (I have a really bad habit of editing my posts sorry)... but basically the same thing.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
So, what would you consider evidence?

It's less about evidence and more about logical inference. Show why belief in God is reasonable and, if it is solid, I would have no choice but to accept it.

The complexity of the universe will be explained by science? It will, and whatever the scientists think is the First Cause of the universe will be equal to God.
Why is that? I can see there being a fundamental and "infinite" thing, but if you consider that God I feel it is kind of holding on to unnecessary superstition. If it is not intelligent, not conscious, not personal, not caring, etc then what is the point of calling it God? I see God as something able to interact and able to think, not some basic underlying nature of reality.

How many countries have you been to? How many PHD's do you have? How many children have you raised? You think you know so much yet you haven't even done 1% of what's possible on the earth yet you're "pretty confident" that you know whether or not there is a creator of the universe?
Yes, all those things are 100% irrelevant to knowing if their is a creator or not. That is the inevitable outcome of arguing with someone who can't put anything forward. I doubt that you have personally tested everything you accept (which wasn't even your argument but I'm ignoring the red herring). I do not have a PhD but I will one day, and that in no way changes how the universe has evolved. I may have kids one day but that won't change the laws of physics and reason, the math behind theoretical physics, etc. Yes, I am pretty confident that there is not a divine creator, because it is pretty simple stuff we are talking about here.

I've studied the works of those with PhDs, I have interacted with parents, I have been to some countries and studied even more, and how do those support God? The works of scientists and philosophers have helped lead me to believe there is not God. The biological processes that make a baby in no way even suggest a God. The countries thing was just 100% irrelevant.
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
How many countries have you been to? How many PHD's do you have? How many children have you raised? You think you know so much yet you haven't even done 1% of what's possible on the earth yet you're "pretty confident" that you know whether or not there is a creator of the universe?


it only takes a little work in history to realize creation is mythology

as written it is a impossible event that never happened, yet those with faith have all stretched it into something the original text no longer states.

who has real issues here???
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
What do you mean you are supposed to know? How do you know that? Is it just some innate feeling that you have which lets you know that fact that God exists? The universe is not evidence that God exists, and I like that you simply made that statement instead of (failing in) supporting it in any way. The universe is natural and came about by natural means. Before string theory and M-theory we could add God in "before" the big bang, but now we have a cause. Although, who says a singularity could not pop into existence? Particles do.

Some people ask question like this to gain insight. If you don't want to share your beliefs, do not respond. Maybe the OP is like me and wished that someone could show that God exists through evidence and logic (although the OP seems more hate driven honestly). The disappointing thing is that it is not going to happen, as evidence and reason always seem to lean towards atheism.

The universe is not evidence that God exists? Can you prove this?

The universe is natural? Exactly, God is nature.

Before string theory and Membrane Theory we could add God in before the big bang? And what exactly do you think causes the one dimensional strings in string theory? What kind of "energy" are they exactly?

Who says a singularity could not pop into existence? I think you'll get some argument from the physicist students on this site but not from me, I'm not saying it did or didn't.

There is just as much evidence for the existence of God as there is against.
 
The proof that there is no proof to back some imaginatory existance in actual reality?
If you state, then prove. If you can't, then my perspective is not invalidated at all.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
It's less about evidence and more about logical inference. Show why belief in God is reasonable and, if it is solid, I would have no choice but to accept it.

Why is that? I can see there being a fundamental and "infinite" thing, but if you consider that God I feel it is kind of holding on to unnecessary superstition. If it is not intelligent, not conscious, not personal, not caring, etc then what is the point of calling it God? I see God as something able to interact and able to think, not some basic underlying nature of reality.

Yes, all those things are 100% irrelevant to knowing if their is a creator or not. That is the inevitable outcome of arguing with someone who can't put anything forward. I doubt that you have personally tested everything you accept (which wasn't even your argument but I'm ignoring the red herring). I do not have a PhD but I will one day, and that in no way changes how the universe has evolved. I may have kids one day but that won't change the laws of physics and reason, the math behind theoretical physics, etc. Yes, I am pretty confident that there is not a divine creator, because it is pretty simple stuff we are talking about here.

I've studied the works of those with PhDs, I have interacted with parents, I have been to some countries and studied even more, and how do those support God? The works of scientists and philosophers have helped lead me to believe there is not God. The biological processes that make a baby in no way even suggest a God. The countries thing was just 100% irrelevant.

Logical inference? Hmm, so, to you, everything that exists and happens in the universe is logical?

To prove God to you I have to provide you with reasonable evidence? What if you're not supposed to believe in God?

What rule of science says that whatever is the First Cause of the universe it must also be unintelligent and not conscious, not personal, not caring? You're getting caught on the biblical idea of God, think of God as a work in progress, the original scientist, the First Cause of the universe who is developing His personality but is maybe only 10% of what He will be.

Learning about the earth and people is irrelevant to whether there is a creator or not? It's 100% relevant. The kids you might have one day, do you think they will follow your logic and reason or will they flush the remote control down the toilet?

You're pretty confident there is no divine creator? And what have you done/achieved, where have you been that we should follow you?

The countries thing is irrelevant? Have you ever driven a vehicle in the USA? Now, how about Italy? What is the difference and why?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
The universe is not evidence that God exists? Can you prove this?

your the one making the claim with no credibility or validity

it is upon you to provide evidence and build your case


God is nature.

based on what evidence?


There is just as much evidence for the existence of God as there is against.

wrong


there is plenty of evidence he was created through mythology and evolved with the ever changing culture.

there is ZERO evidence of mythology being in any part of reality
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
The universe is not evidence that God exists? Can you prove this?

The universe is natural? Exactly, God is nature.

No the universe is not evidence of God. Prove that the universe is not evidence of a deity? You are reaching now. It's up to you to add in completely unnecessary superstitions and make natural events need a starter. I don't understand saying that God is nature. Nature is nature, saying it is God is just adding comforting and unnecessary supernatural nonsense to nature, not to mention making it completely unamazing.

Before string theory and Membrane Theory we could add God in before the big bang? And what exactly do you think causes the one dimensional strings in string theory? What kind of "energy" are they exactly?

Who says a singularity could not pop into existence? I think you'll get some argument from the physicist students on this site but not from me, I'm not saying it did or didn't.
What does? Something probably incomprehensible and infinite, but like I said I would not call that God. If I was inclined to add spirituality to it I would probably go the route of Taoism, but even that is unnecessary. It would not take intelligence, love, consciousness, etc for one dimensional strings to vibrate. Nothing does or probably ever will suggest otherwise. Probably just natural. I realize you buy into the cop out that God = nature, but that is simply a dying gasp between theism and atheism in which you realize that this is all natural but wish there was a divine aspect anyways.

There is just as much evidence for the existence of God as there is against.
Really? Care to provide one single shred of evidence, reason, or even a single fact that supports the existence of God?
 
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Super Universe

Defender of God
it only takes a little work in history to realize creation is mythology

as written it is a impossible event that never happened, yet those with faith have all stretched it into something the original text no longer states.

who has real issues here???

So, myth's can't be true?

What law of physics states that?

Everyone has issues, it's understanding your issues that helps you assess who you really are.
 
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