Proving logic can't explain existence

[mikkel_the_dane]

An interesting thing about objective reality is that it seems the assumption came about because in the West because of the Abrahamic religions and their view that God made a universe that is real and could be studied objectively. Hence the West advanced in science faster than the East. (a belief in this creator God gives the basis for a belief in the reality of what the God created)
But of course these days God is excluded from science and science is not seen as a study of the reality that God has created.

Well, yes and no. Western culture is a combination of science, philosophy and religion. You can't explain Western culture without religion even today, but this God, you use, is not the only version of what someone can believe in.

And what you believe about objective reality other than it being independent of you is within one tradition of philosophy unknowable. So in effect Western culture is a "duality" of objective knowledge versus cognitive/epistemological relativism and that one is older than Christianity and I have seen no evidence that the origin of Western philosophy is a strong result of Judaism.
Indeed the idea of objective knowledge is not religious as such. It is rational and based on the idea of justified true belief. Off course philosophy has used the idea of a creator God, but that God is not the Abrahamic and is ideally not based on faith, but rational truth.

We can go deeper into it, but Western culture is not just Abrahamic religions and everything is from them, as far as I can tell.

 

[sayak83]

I would like to prove that there is no logic that can explain existence which will mean that not only are there no universal laws, but existence itself is magical and anything is possible and the world is not what we think it is.

It doesn't matter if you believe in creationism or evolution for this thought experiment lets go to the source of all things. I am going to call this SOURCE. For creationists this SOURCE can be God and for others it can be the energy that made up the original big bang it really doesn't matter.

What we are debating is how did this SOURCE of everything come into existence?

I see only 2 possible ways SOURCE came into existence:

1. It has always existed with no beginning and no end. (defies all logic)
2. Magically popped into existence from nothingness. (defies all logic)

Those are the only 2 options and don't you see that either way something amazing, magical, and beyond our wildest dreams is going on here that can't be explained or rationalized?

Existence itself is a sheer mystery!! If source is magical, and you are made from source, then you are magical too!

Don't you see the only logical thing is that there should have been nothingness, and nothing should have come from that nothingness, so there should be nothing, but that's not the case! You are living proof that all this is a miracle!

Neither option defies any logic I know of.

 

[sayak83]

Your seeing is limited. You are a short-sighted human beings, just like me. Human beings are short-sighted, imperfect and full of flaws. There are so many times we can't even correctly diagnose other [sick] human beings who are in front of us who are observable and testable. There are many unexplainable phenomenas in our own earth, they are beyond our comprehension. The universe is immeasurably more complex and mysterious. How can we judge it so easily with inherently limited and flawed tools?



Not sure about logic but it does sound counter-intuitive. But then again, going by quantum mechanics, seemingly counter-intuitive things do happen. So, I won't attach much importance to such arguments.

However, I do agree with that argument to some extent. If there was no beginning and no end to the source and it has been like this since infinity, how could a certain event would have been reached?

Think about it this way --- Consider a line of shooter, each shooting after the one behind him has shot. Now, imagine this line to be infinite. It would become impossible for the time to come for certain shooter because to get to him, infinite amount of shooter have to first finish their shots. I apply the same logic with our world. It would become impossible for [let's say] the time for formation of earth before that, infinite number of events of to be taken place first.

Same with the other point of magically pop out of existence out of nowhere. It sounds irrational. Going by my previous example, it's like saying an event occurred where one of the shooter just pulled out a rocket launcher out of thin air and just fired it. That's absurd.

But then again, I don't think logic [and maths] is universally applicable. We have logical paradoxes which shows that logic is limited and have inherent problems. Maths [which is also based on logic] have it's own paradoxes. Besides, even maths is far from perfect. Even Euclids took things on granted, thus we have axioms with no logical proof. We can't prove axioms.

Mathematically one often integrates from negative infinity to a certain variable value of "t" and gets well behaved analytical results. So it's logically possible to add up from negative infinity to a certain finite value of a variable, even if we cannot imagine it.