Life continues to live because of the harmonious nature of existence, which is non chaotic. Living beings are continuing to live, this act of living implies a reason to live. Life is attracted to existence because of the harmony within being. From this reason of life continue living stems the true nature of all life. Living conscious creatures are attracted to what is pleasing such as, harmony(sound), Vibrant light, and that which is compassionate. From these basics i derive my rational thought.
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Proving my ontological truth.
- Thread starter ColeBowl
- Start date
dust1n
Zindīq
Why does the fact that a 'harmonious nature of existence' exists necessarily entail that life is 'not chaotic?' In fact, some creatures go through continuous suffering and would prefer to not exist. This is no ontological truth by any means, because it's not true for everybody. Proof? People kill themselves.
Then what is the reason to live again?...
...That's only one way to be attracted to existence.
Again, you are disregarding suicide as if it didn't exist.
I also like dissonance (sound), dim and cooling light, and compassion, though it's continuously diluted with hard feelings, bad circumstances, fights, etc. which are not so harmonious.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
"harmonious nature of existence" entails that the Basis of existence is non chaotic.* There is ontological truth for everyone, some people simply disregard
what is true but that does not necessarily change what is true. These people are not exceptions but simply "divergent" from the truth, depending on that degree of the divergence one might find what some call insanity.
Life is beautiful, life wants to experience this beauty. If life was not harmonious then there would be no attraction to being thus there would be no life.
People who commit suicide, kill, ect. are not exceptions they simply are unaware or aware but still disregard.
My argument to this is similar to that of the people who commit suicide this is not an expectation but a divergence. But in this case the degree of the divergence is not so directly related to the death. (that is good news for you)
dust1n
Zindīq
There is a 'dissonant nature of existence' that exists and holds just as valid and 'real' as the 'harmonious nature of existence'. Hunger for example. This would entail that parts of the world are chaotic. Since chaos cannot be organized, but temporary organization can be produced through chaos, it would be safe to say that the dissonant nature of existence is of considerable equivalence.
I guess the truth that exists for me contradicts what I consider truth.
So the farther away we get from believing that 'there is a harmonious nature of existence (while disregarding the dissonant nature of existence) the more we are 'insane'?
There are plenty of people that I met who don't regard life as beautiful, thus wants to experience escaping the dissatisfaction of life, or coming to terms with the fact that life is not beautiful. They are still living, their attraction to being is not attraction to actual 'being' but 'being within certain states of mind.'
"Life is so beautiful, but I'm going to disregard this and kill myself?"
Even if this was the case, it still shows that their is a equally or at least a significantly dissonant nature of existence as well.
dust1n
Zindīq
No, the importance is equal to that of the chaos within harmony...?
Yeah, works either way. The point is, life is attracted to being and has acquired a sense of what is beneficial to prolonging life in such an existence.
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blackout
Violet.
A sense perhaps, but certainly no mastery.
To most, "prolonging" life means...
waiting for/expecting life in 'heaven',
or
making medical 'advancements'
(to gain a few years)
or
Living Young when you are older
(usually good, sometimes not as good, depending)
People are more attracted to leadership.
(ie. being led.... or leading others)
Most people prefer OTHERS to "order" their life
(which of course means being "ordered" around)
I don't get the sense actually
that most people are interested much in "Being" at all.
Having maybe, doing what is expected of them by societal norms....
eh
I think I prefer Chaos.
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dust1n
Zindīq
Only some life is attracted to being and has acquired a sense of what is beneficial to prolong life... which would make a relative experience, nothing ontological.
I Am
Member
What brings you to the conclusion that life is "non-chaotic", as opposed to "chaotic"? Define this "harmonious nature of existence". If anything the law of entropy would most likely suggest that life is in fact quite "chaotic" in its nature to tend towards disorder.
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I would say most life is attracted to being and has acquired a sense of what is beneficial to prolong life. Proof of this attraction is life's existence itself, if the attraction was absent then the result would be the deterioration of that form of life. Something being relative does not keep it from being ontological. Life that is not attracted to being has consciously perceived such disdain for living, this a superficial priori and does not hold validity in the majority of life.
I like the way you present images. What does it mean for you for something to "be ontological"?
It seems just as likely to me know that chaos and order(harmony) exist together, or simply as one. I also want to point out different types of chaos, for not all chaos has the same outcome. One type of chaos will result in separate interpretive sections while the other results in indistinguishable white noise. Even still with existence having both order and chaos present, life's nature is determining what is orderly or consistent with benefiting the homeostasis of life. I would call the results of determining the benefiting factors of life as beautiful.
Force is a reason within the context of there being a reaction to the force.
That is a good question. I want my main argument to deal mostly with the true nature of life. So, i use the word ontological because it can be applied to use when dealing with the character, and relationship between life and existence. Also, for a statement that is dealing with what is ontological to be correct in this particular context, it must be accurately valid to all subjects within the discourse of saying "life."
I Am
Member
To me, the concept of "order" is highly subjective. It's a fact that the human brain is designed to create patterns out of meaningless or otherwise discordant phenomena. (A couple examples being constellations, shapes in clouds, or all types of divination.) While I can agree with you that homeostasis is a biological tendency of living organisms, and thus human beings... is homeostatis really synonymous with "order"? Is the ballance one sees between harmony and chaos merely a product of the human brain? And if this "harmony" is really prevalent in the universe, in what way does it serve homeostatis?
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Light threw water vapor or a prism will refract light into the same order blue, green, yellow, ect. this exists outside the mind, and is not subjective. The examples you stated are meaningless but the interpretations of patterns that have the possibility to come into direct contact with life create awareness to danger, and thus have not been proven meaningless.
Homeostasis is synonymous to order for one because of DNA. Without a specific order for ACGT a cell would have confused commands and would be very inefficient. Notice in my post with the topic of order and homeostasis i threw in the word "consistent" at the time i meant that certain foods are consistent for nourishment, this appears orderly to me.
First off harmony is not a product of the human brain. I have specifically avoided bringing up the human brain in this thread because any other animals brain can be used just as well. I believe harmony and choas exists absent of the brain, if three brains are perceiving the same dissonant sound at the same time and one of the brains is removed from the picture the sound is still present even with one brain being absent. Notice i meant to use harmony and order as having the same meaning, but they might be argued as different because harmony pertains specifically to congruent ordering. I can't think of many simple and rational arguments that link harmony to homeostasis other than going back to DNA. There needs to be harmonious pairing for DNA to replicate. I would say DNA argument is less interesting than considering harmonious sounds as providing the brain a basis for comprehending order so that it may arrange harmful objects, from beneficial.
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I Am
Member
The PHENOMENON of the light sprectrum exists outside the mind, but the PERCEPTION of a pattern within it is subjective to the abilities of the mind. Many animals with the ability to experience color would not derive the same connections between them, and the meaning behind the change of colors and how they change. The colors in the light sprectrum perhaps exist independant of the mind, but the meaning that comes from them is the derivitive of reason. As Sartre stated, "existence precedes essence," although I'm using that term loosely here as it most often applies to individual beings, as an existential term... however in the context of objects, which are "beings-for-itself", the existence of the light precedes the essence or MEANING which we give it.
linwood
Well-Known Member
I don`t know where you live but there is chaos throughout nature around me.
What do you base this assertion on?
I see nothing that points to a guided predisposed reason to live.
No.
Life is attracted to existence because it`s better than the alternative.
It`s that simple really.
I don`t see how.