Psychedelics and God

[Reptillian]

A lot of people debate God but how do you debate God without the use of Psychedelics? I don't mean to say Psychedelics show you a world that isn't there...that is unimportant, what I am arguing is the experiences on Psychedelics are such an important part of the divine experience that while I think you can have divine revelation without psychedelics how can you argue one way or another if you have limited your experiences to only when sober?

That is like saying you know what the sky looks like but refuse to come out of the cave.

Or that you know what the world looks like but refuse to climb the mountain and actually see it from afar.

I think it is odd that anyone would argue such an experiential thing (Religion) and not themselves pursued the most religious experience which is found in the realm of Psychedelics.

Bees can see colors that I can't, that doesn't mean I need to spend time as a bee to understand the nature of color.

 

[Psychonaut]

We put chemicals into our bodies and they alter our lives whether sugar or carrots or mushrooms or "shrooms".

Why is our society so afraid of psychedelics yet so on board with high fructose corn syrup or chlorine in our waters or transfats and etc?

There are far worse things than psychedelics.

 

[Psychonaut]

Bees can see colors that I can't, that doesn't mean I need to spend time as a bee to understand the nature of color.

But because people repeatedly say Rey have profound life altering experience on drugs like psilocybin or mesucline or DMT, how can you avoid those drugs in your quest for God?

People don't have profound life experiences being a "bee", that's not possible.

So can you be more logical and reasonable?

 

[Twilight Hue]

it's sort of like entering a dream state, sometimes you have wonderful dreams sometimes you have nightmares...

Its the induction of visions or states that drugs brings to the table, and your right BTW in this being no different than dreams or nightmares save for the triggers that causes them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There are far worse things than psychedelics.

Yes like insanity. Of which the use of psychedelics can induce and bring about. To those who ignore this, I say go ahead, knock your block off and fry your friggin brains out. I've worked in drug addiction clinics in the past to see enough in determining what the actual truth is in regards to drug use. Some times though, the personal-in-your-face hard way experience is the only way to see the actual truth of the matter. Some see it, some dont.

 

[Psychonaut]

Yes like insanity. Of which the use of psychedelics can induce and bring about. To those who ignore this, I say go ahead, knock your block off and fry your friggin brains out. I've worked in drug addiction clinics in the past to see enough in determining what the actual truth is in regards to drug use. Some times though, the personal-in-your-face hard way experience is the only way to see the actual truth of the matter. Some see it, some dont.

And what drug add did you see? Meth, Heroine, Cocaine? All are man synthesized and corrupted. Or LSD which is man made entirely. You can lose your mind working a 9-5 job going nowhere your whole life. Just as easy as you can lose your mind on anything else.

Don't blame a perfectly good natural substance for people's mental problems. If anything drugs show you the real problem, whether or not you can handle that reality is the question.

 

[Luminous]

But because people repeatedly say Rey have profound life altering experience on drugs like psilocybin or mesucline or DMT, how can you avoid those drugs in your quest for God?

People don't have profound life experiences being a "bee", that's not possible.

So can you be more logical and reasonable?

I think he was basically re-stating my point. you can't experience life as a bee...so why would you need to experience life as a tripping person?
even then, you are denying yourself the experience as a non-tripping person.

 

[Noaidi]

A lot of people debate God but how do you debate God without the use of Psychedelics? I don't mean to say Psychedelics show you a world that isn't there...that is unimportant, what I am arguing is the experiences on Psychedelics are such an important part of the divine experience that while I think you can have divine revelation without psychedelics how can you argue one way or another if you have limited your experiences to only when sober?

That is like saying you know what the sky looks like but refuse to come out of the cave.

Or that you know what the world looks like but refuse to climb the mountain and actually see it from afar.

I think it is odd that anyone would argue such an experiential thing (Religion) and not themselves pursued the most religious experience which is found in the realm of Psychedelics.

Interesting. Religion is one of those things that we humans experience almost universally based on the experiences of others but assimilate (or have had assimilated) into our own upbringinging (how many of us have actual knowledge of god(s) and how many of us learn about our gods from parents, priests etc?)

Perhaps the use of entheogens can provide a way of experiencing "god" (or whatever you want to call it) for oneself.

 

[LuisDantas]

The only justification needed for avoiding psychoactive drugs, regardless of faith or beliefs, is the desire for not jeopardizing oneself. It is an ancient technique called "having good judgement" and its found in many religions.

 

[Noaidi]

The only justification needed for avoiding psychoactive drugs, regardless of faith or beliefs, is the desire for not jeopardizing oneself. It is an ancient technique called "having good judgement" and its found in many religions.

Yes, but I think you are seeing psychedelics from a western perspective. ie as something to get 'high' on. That's not been the role of psychedelics in pre- / non-western cultures.

 

[BruceDLimber]

so what is the difference between induced dreaming (through sleep) and induced dreaming (through injection)?

The one is entirely natural and involves no artificial "induction" whatever (which is apparently obvious to everyone in the world EXCEPT you).

Baha'i teachings have everything to do with agnosticism because they are purely anti-agnostic and were created specifically to attack our noble stance on truth....

You would be hard-pressed to prove this assertion even if the rest of us ignore the gross egotism it obviously reflects!

Nor is the Faith oriented around YOU and dedicated to disproving YOU much as you seem to wish this were the case.

You will forgive me, I trust, if I'm not the least impressed by your hubris.

 

[LuisDantas]

Using drugs is messing with the natural biochemical balance of the body. Even if it works as expected, there are risks. In fact, those are among the worst - far too many people become dependent on sleep helpers, for instance.

 

[Psychonaut]

Using drugs is messing with the natural biochemical balance of the body. Even if it works as expected, there are risks. In fact, those are among the worst - far too many people become dependent on sleep helpers, for instance.

This is no more true than eating foods which disturb the natural chemical balance in the body.

DMT is released by the brain fr dreaming, why not eat it?

THC has a receptor for it in the brain? Why not smoke it.

And so forth.

 

[LuisDantas]

This is no more true than eating foods which disturb the natural chemical balance in the body.

If you eat them in such a way that they become a disturbance, them I guess you are right.

DMT is released by the brain fr dreaming, why not eat it?

Dosage and self-regulation capability, for two things. We need to drink to survive, but that does not mean we can't drown.

THC has a receptor for it in the brain? Why not smoke it.

And so forth.

My neck is a "receptor" for an axeblade, but I still would rather not use it as such. I'm weird that way, go figure.

 

[Luminous]

The one is entirely natural and involves no artificial "induction" whatever (which is apparently obvious to everyone in the world EXCEPT you).



You would be hard-pressed to prove this assertion even if the rest of us ignore the gross egotism it obviously reflects!

Nor is the Faith oriented around YOU and dedicated to disproving YOU much as you seem to wish this were the case.

You will forgive me, I trust, if I'm not the least impressed by your hubris.

what is the difference between natural and unnatural...if YOU are natural?
do you know what a hospital does? hospitals are natural. the Baha'i should then be all against anesthesia and all the other great things that agnostic science has given them.
The rest of your assertions mean nothing.

 

[BruceDLimber]

You are quite welcome to your opinionn, however screwed up it may be.

And the Baha'i scriptures command use of doctors and hospitals when needed, little as you're aware of this. Not to mention which, my wife is a cardiac nurse who's taught ICU courses in university. So I fear you're preaching to the choir.

 

[Commoner]

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

 

[Luminous]

You are quite welcome to your opinionn, however screwed up it may be.

And the Baha'i scriptures command use of doctors and hospitals when needed, little as you're aware of this. Not to mention which, my wife is a cardiac nurse who's taught ICU courses in university. So I fear you're preaching to the choir.

I have found that the answers from anti-agnostics are never quite substantive.
again, what is the difference between "natural" and "unnatural" and why is "natural" better.

 

[steveoh]

great point, your understanding of life without any psychedelic experience is say at 1000ft, then after an experience with say phsyclobin "magic" mushrooms or lsd which is from moss, your understanding goes up to like 10000ft, yes people will argue, but if you've never tried it you will not understand, just like love, and **** our government, they make it illegal for citizens to sell heroin but they can allow doctors to give heroin and every other drug to patients for daily use, why? because when we sell it they dont make profit!

 

[Commoner]

great point, your understanding of life without any psychedelic experience is say at 1000ft, then after an experience with say phsyclobin "magic" mushrooms or lsd which is from moss, your understanding goes up to like 10000ft, yes people will argue, but if you've never tried it you will not understand, just like love, and **** our government, they make it illegal for citizens to sell heroin but they can allow doctors to give heroin and every other drug to patients for daily use, why? because when we sell it they dont make profit!

You're right, because taxing a hundred billion dollar a year industry wouldn't make the goverment any money. No, it's the one-in-ten-thousand junkie that gets prescribed heroin - that's where the big bucks are. That's that 10000ft logic working for you.

And there are absolutely no downsides to heroin or other hard drugs, none at all. Nothing that would justify them being illegal. No, nothing at all. It's all a big government conspiracy!!!!1!11!