• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Psychology explains why the Israeli–Palestinian conflict is so intractable

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
NOTE: This is not a thread to debate right/wrong nor about which side is more evil. The focus is on the emotions involved and psychological realities and how they combine to cause the horror that is the Middle-East today. As the article points out, even starting down a path to peace requires leaders who sincerely want peace and will ackknowledge that the other side has suffered as well. That today is not the case but sooner-or-later the misery and suffering will get to a point when anything seems better than more horror and more suffering.

Psychology explains why the Israeli–Palestinian conflict is so intractable

The answer goes beyond geopolitics and speaks to the underlying psychology of what it is to be human and why we fight. Thankfully, the research on this psychology also points to potential pathways to resolution.
...
Here are key psychological concepts that have been studied in the Israeli–Palestinian context and what they mean for conflict resolution.

Parochial altruism: with us or against us

Humans have well-established in-group and out-group biases. These general tendencies still allow for us to be an extremely cooperative species, but the problem arises when these biases begin to polarize. Humans find trouble when they go to the extreme of altruism (by showing favoritism to one’s own group) while simultaneously going to the extreme of parochialism (by displaying hostility toward those outside it). When strong forms of parochial altruism arise on all sides of a conflict, intractability sets in.
...
Sacred values: never compromise

Of course, most Israelis and Palestinians don’t think like this. But there are myriad factors that make someone take on this hostile mode of thinking. Chief among those factors is a dogmatic ideology that makes compromise with the other side seem like a morally abhorrent notion.

This kind of ideology is infused with what are called “sacred values.” These are values of such moral importance that they transcend the material concerns of everyday life; people would be willing to give their lives for them. Israelis and Palestinians hold values that come into direct conflict with each other such as claims over land.

Trauma and victimhood: The past is never past

Collective trauma only makes resolving this conflict more difficult. For both sides, the current violence brings back traumatic memories. For Israelis, the attacks on October 7th — and events afterwards such as the storming of an airport in the Russian Republic of Dagestan, where a mob searched for Jewish passengers, or the October firebombing attack on a Berlin synagogue — reminds them of the pogroms Jews faced at the hands of the Nazis and others.

For Palestinians, the war driving people out of their homes and into the streets and refugee settlements harkens back to the Nakba in 1948, when Palestinians were left as a stateless people during the creation of Israel. Collective traumas become part of the story each group tells about itself. They can also be a barrier to resolution by causing some to resist compromise, in order to not let the past repeat itself.

The way forward: Thankfully, the tools exist

Depressing as the last three months have been, the psychological literature makes clear that tools do exist to make peace more possible. Symbolic concessions decrease barriers to resolution, even among absolutists. Acknowledging each other’s traumas reduces competitive victimhood and increases willingness to compromise on contentious issues. Those elements of dialogue are important for opening the door to discussion of any particular peace plan.

These tools can only be used if leaders on both sides agree to a cessation of violence and sincerely want peace. Such is not the case when war rages on and a group like Hamas identifies itself with the destruction of Israel, and a leader like Netanyahu indicates (as he did in 2019) that a strong Hamas is good for Israel as it provides justification for avoiding peace.

The research all points in one direction: the need to publicly and unequivocally accept each other’s realities and thereby dignify each other’s humanity. Once that happens, pragmatic negotiations related to material disputes can be undertaken. But until then, strong psychological levers will continue to work against peace.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The research all points in one direction: the need to publicly and unequivocally accept each other’s realities and thereby dignify each other’s humanity. Once that happens, pragmatic negotiations related to material disputes can be undertaken. But until then, strong psychological levers will continue to work against peace.
But then when one side or both don't do that, ... ?
 

justaguy313

Active Member
In a letter dated August 15, 1871, Albert Pike outlined to Illuminati leader Mazzini how they would conquer the world through three world wars. how to establish a "NEW WORLD ORDER".

The First World War was supposed to be staged in order to bring Tsarist Russia under the control of the Bavarian Illuminati. Russia would then be used as a scapegoat to further spread the aims of the Bavarian Illuminati to other parts of the world.

WWII should have started by fomenting differences between German nationalists and political Zionists. This was supposed to lead to the expansion of Russian influence and the establishment of the State of Israel in Palestine.

Disagreements between Zionists and Arabs are said to have led to the Third World War with the incitement of Illuminati agents. The clash was to change the world completely.

It is also said that the plan of this war was to incite hostilities between nihilists and atheists and to bring about social change with the utmost cruelty and violence.

After the collapse of Christianity and atheism, they would show people the true "Teaching of Lucifer", killing two birds with one stone.

We see that according to this plan, the Second World War follows a scenario that is completely different from what the history books teach us.

albert.png
morals.jpg
giussepe.jpg
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
In a letter dated August 15, 1871, Albert Pike outlined to Illuminati leader Mazzini how they would conquer the world through three world wars. how to establish a "NEW WORLD ORDER".

The First World War was supposed to be staged in order to bring Tsarist Russia under the control of the Bavarian Illuminati. Russia would then be used as a scapegoat to further spread the aims of the Bavarian Illuminati to other parts of the world.

WWII should have started by fomenting differences between German nationalists and political Zionists. This was supposed to lead to the expansion of Russian influence and the establishment of the State of Israel in Palestine.

Disagreements between Zionists and Arabs are said to have led to the Third World War with the incitement of Illuminati agents. The clash was to change the world completely.

It is also said that the plan of this war was to incite hostilities between nihilists and atheists and to bring about social change with the utmost cruelty and violence.

After the collapse of Christianity and atheism, they would show people the true "Teaching of Lucifer", killing two birds with one stone.

We see that according to this plan, the Second World War follows a scenario that is completely different from what the history books teach us.

View attachment 87168View attachment 87169View attachment 87170
I literally adore you. :)
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
In a letter dated August 15, 1871, Albert Pike outlined to Illuminati leader Mazzini how they would conquer the world through three world wars. how to establish a "NEW WORLD ORDER".

The First World War was supposed to be staged in order to bring Tsarist Russia under the control of the Bavarian Illuminati. Russia would then be used as a scapegoat to further spread the aims of the Bavarian Illuminati to other parts of the world.

WWII should have started by fomenting differences between German nationalists and political Zionists. This was supposed to lead to the expansion of Russian influence and the establishment of the State of Israel in Palestine.

Disagreements between Zionists and Arabs are said to have led to the Third World War with the incitement of Illuminati agents. The clash was to change the world completely.

It is also said that the plan of this war was to incite hostilities between nihilists and atheists and to bring about social change with the utmost cruelty and violence.

After the collapse of Christianity and atheism, they would show people the true "Teaching of Lucifer", killing two birds with one stone.

We see that according to this plan, the Second World War follows a scenario that is completely different from what the history books teach us.

View attachment 87168View attachment 87169View attachment 87170
WOW. What a truly active fantasy life produced that madness.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
From a psychological point of view, it's clear that religious indoctrination is the one that causes terrorism.
I mean... really?
They are still speaking of 1948?
Germany and France are great friends now, despite the past, and WW2.
Turks and Greeks are peaceful neighbors and have so many things in common. Despite the really bloody past.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
That's why the problem is so intractable. The people and the leaders of both sides need to sincerely want peace.
Clearly the relative 'peace' of 6 October 2023 proved ephemeral. The people and the leaders on both side need to sincerely want security for themselves and the other.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That's why the problem is so intractable. The people and the leaders of both sides need to sincerely want peace. Someday...
This perspective doesn't face the reality that only
one side has overwhelming military superiority,
& uses it for genocide. Add to this Israel's policies...
- Financial destitution of Gazans.
- Apartheid.
- Separate & lower legal status for non-Jews.
- Allowing settlers to murder Palestinians & take their land.
- Ignoring international law.
- Imprisonment without a trial.
- Murder & torture.

It's intractable because Hamas is a response to Israel's
policies, ie, psychology shows that the oppressed tend
to resort to violence, & to eschew the niceties of
conventional war.
So the primary burden of change falls upon Israel.
But tribal mentality & anger are foremost in their
thinking, creating a vicious circle.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Like most wars and conflicts, we blame the rank and file; Germany, USA, Russia, China, etc.. while conflict can always be traced back to the leaders. Religion is not the problem, but religion is often used by shady leaders, in selected ways, to rile the mob; disinformation. Below are the demographics in Israel. Jewish, Christians and Arabs practicing their religions can coexist since all are more is about love and peace. If we add bad apple leaders, to rile the crowd, we can destroy the domestic tranquility.

  • 73.2% (about 7,208,000 people) are Jews, including about 503,000 living outside the self-defined borders of the State of Israel in the West Bank
  • 21.1% (around 2,080,000 people) are Israeli citizens classified as Arab, some identifying as Palestinian, and including Druze, Circassians, all other Muslims, Christian Arabs, Armenians (which Israel considers "Arab")[2]
  • An additional 5.7% (roughly 554,000 people) are classified as "others". This diverse group comprises those with Jewish ancestry but not recognized as Jewish by religious law, non-Jewish family members of Jewish immigrants, Christians other than Arabs and Armenians, and residents without a distinct ethnic or religious categorization.[2][1]

Hamas is like the DNC equivalent of the DEI operatives, who infiltrate businesses, and through intimation, and then force bad policy decisions designed to spread their cancer. If DEI complains about a business, the Injustice system will find a way to target the business. This is how many leaders will willingly misuse otherwise good intent, as a cover for something, less than pure. Why would Bud Light still allow the DEI boneheads, who do not understand business to remain to do more damage; mafia intimidation. If we excise that cancer, the cell can heal. Most people are fine, but a cancer can take over and ruin all.

Like in the USA, the Biden administration and DNC calls Trump a threat to Democracy, yet Biden and the DNC had done more shady things like censorship, using government resources to attack political opponents; DEI does not allow religion or conservatives as part of their so-called diversity. There was spying and not allowing anyone to primary against Biden etc. That is not Democracy but a third world dictatorship. COVID also showed the true colors; forced conformity that led to many children being forever harmed; education, for no solid reason other than to flex the muscles of control and power, all based on CDC misinformation.

Name me the undemocratic behavior of Trump in his first term? Doesn't reducing Big Government regulation give more freedom? The Liberal religion has many well meaning people, as do Israel and in Palestine in their religions. However, they can get be misled and induced to hysteria, by the con artists in sheep's clothing, using their good nature against them.

I like the idea of Israel targeting the Hamas leaders, since leadership is always the cancer that makes the entire body sick. Israel, has elections, which is a more civilized way to deal with bad apples. Although, Israel knows the cancer is spread wide and far and it will not be easy to heal the body. If any cancer is left, it will be back to step one. They may still need a surgeon who is not afraid to get dirty at work. A country of peaceful Palestinians would allow for peace and sharing.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
NOTE: This is not a thread to debate right/wrong nor about which side is more evil. The focus is on the emotions involved and psychological realities and how they combine to cause the horror that is the Middle-East today. As the article points out, even starting down a path to peace requires leaders who sincerely want peace and will ackknowledge that the other side has suffered as well. That today is not the case but sooner-or-later the misery and suffering will get to a point when anything seems better than more horror and more suffering.

Psychology explains why the Israeli–Palestinian conflict is so intractable

The answer goes beyond geopolitics and speaks to the underlying psychology of what it is to be human and why we fight. Thankfully, the research on this psychology also points to potential pathways to resolution.
...
Here are key psychological concepts that have been studied in the Israeli–Palestinian context and what they mean for conflict resolution.

Parochial altruism: with us or against us

Humans have well-established in-group and out-group biases. These general tendencies still allow for us to be an extremely cooperative species, but the problem arises when these biases begin to polarize. Humans find trouble when they go to the extreme of altruism (by showing favoritism to one’s own group) while simultaneously going to the extreme of parochialism (by displaying hostility toward those outside it). When strong forms of parochial altruism arise on all sides of a conflict, intractability sets in.
...
Sacred values: never compromise

Of course, most Israelis and Palestinians don’t think like this. But there are myriad factors that make someone take on this hostile mode of thinking. Chief among those factors is a dogmatic ideology that makes compromise with the other side seem like a morally abhorrent notion.

This kind of ideology is infused with what are called “sacred values.” These are values of such moral importance that they transcend the material concerns of everyday life; people would be willing to give their lives for them. Israelis and Palestinians hold values that come into direct conflict with each other such as claims over land.

Trauma and victimhood: The past is never past

Collective trauma only makes resolving this conflict more difficult. For both sides, the current violence brings back traumatic memories. For Israelis, the attacks on October 7th — and events afterwards such as the storming of an airport in the Russian Republic of Dagestan, where a mob searched for Jewish passengers, or the October firebombing attack on a Berlin synagogue — reminds them of the pogroms Jews faced at the hands of the Nazis and others.

For Palestinians, the war driving people out of their homes and into the streets and refugee settlements harkens back to the Nakba in 1948, when Palestinians were left as a stateless people during the creation of Israel. Collective traumas become part of the story each group tells about itself. They can also be a barrier to resolution by causing some to resist compromise, in order to not let the past repeat itself.

The way forward: Thankfully, the tools exist

Depressing as the last three months have been, the psychological literature makes clear that tools do exist to make peace more possible. Symbolic concessions decrease barriers to resolution, even among absolutists. Acknowledging each other’s traumas reduces competitive victimhood and increases willingness to compromise on contentious issues. Those elements of dialogue are important for opening the door to discussion of any particular peace plan.

These tools can only be used if leaders on both sides agree to a cessation of violence and sincerely want peace. Such is not the case when war rages on and a group like Hamas identifies itself with the destruction of Israel, and a leader like Netanyahu indicates (as he did in 2019) that a strong Hamas is good for Israel as it provides justification for avoiding peace.

The research all points in one direction: the need to publicly and unequivocally accept each other’s realities and thereby dignify each other’s humanity. Once that happens, pragmatic negotiations related to material disputes can be undertaken. But until then, strong psychological levers will continue to work against peace.

I think it's premature to call the Israeli-Palestinian conflict "intractable" until after we've tried, say, letting Palestinians live without Apartheid in conditions that aren't effectively an open-air prison.

First address Palestinian sovereignty and stop the human rights abuses. If the conflict continues, then I'd consider conceding that it's intractable... but let's try that first.
 

justaguy313

Active Member
Like most wars and conflicts, we blame the rank and file; Germany, USA, Russia, China, etc.. while conflict can always be traced back to the leaders. Religion is not the problem, but religion is often used by shady leaders, in selected ways, to rile the mob; disinformation. Below are the demographics in Israel. Jewish, Christians and Arabs practicing their religions can coexist since all are more is about love and peace. If we add bad apple leaders, to rile the crowd, we can destroy the domestic tranquility.



Hamas is like the DNC equivalent of the DEI operatives, who infiltrate businesses, and through intimation, and then force bad policy decisions designed to spread their cancer. If DEI complains about a business, the Injustice system will find a way to target the business. This is how many leaders will willingly misuse otherwise good intent, as a cover for something, less than pure. Why would Bud Light still allow the DEI boneheads, who do not understand business to remain to do more damage; mafia intimidation. If we excise that cancer, the cell can heal. Most people are fine, but a cancer can take over and ruin all.

Like in the USA, the Biden administration and DNC calls Trump a threat to Democracy, yet Biden and the DNC had done more shady things like censorship, using government resources to attack political opponents; DEI does not allow religion or conservatives as part of their so-called diversity. There was spying and not allowing anyone to primary against Biden etc. That is not Democracy but a third world dictatorship. COVID also showed the true colors; forced conformity that led to many children being forever harmed; education, for no solid reason other than to flex the muscles of control and power, all based on CDC misinformation.

Name me the undemocratic behavior of Trump in his first term? Doesn't reducing Big Government regulation give more freedom? The Liberal religion has many well meaning people, as do Israel and in Palestine in their religions. However, they can get be misled and induced to hysteria, by the con artists in sheep's clothing, using their good nature against them.

I like the idea of Israel targeting the Hamas leaders, since leadership is always the cancer that makes the entire body sick. Israel, has elections, which is a more civilized way to deal with bad apples. Although, Israel knows the cancer is spread wide and far and it will not be easy to heal the body. If any cancer is left, it will be back to step one. They may still need a surgeon who is not afraid to get dirty at work. A country of peaceful Palestinians would allow for peace and sharing.

The question that is kinda an elephant in the room is who financed Israel and put it in charge of Gaza.

 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
But then when one side or both don't do that, ... ?
It's great risk but it's the only way forward. Waring factions just don't get things settled with fighting. One if them has got to be "the bigger man" amd offer peace. Risky, but the alternative is the continued violence with no end in sight.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
It's great risk but it's the only way forward. Waring factions just don't get things settled with fighting. One if them has got to be "the bigger man" amd offer peace. Risky, but the alternative is the continued violence with no end in sight.
The Israelis have well learned over decades that they can't do that as all Hamas will do is prepare for another assault. Also, what will stop them from firing more missiles, which they still are doing?

If Hamas stopped firing the missiles and surrender as some of them already have done, it is then that the conflict will most likely stop, and then new arrangements may be made. There simply is no other possible peaceful solution.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The Israelis have well learned over decades that they can't do that as all Hamas will do is prepare for another assault. Also, what will stop them from firing more missiles, which they still are doing?

If Hamas stopped firing the missiles and surrender as some of them already have done, it is then that the conflict will most likely stop, and then new arrangements may be made. There simply is no other possible peaceful solution.
So then why not leave Hamas behind? England told the PIRA to bugger off and they weren't invited to the peace talks. Israel can indeed do the same with Hamas but they aren't.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
How is Israel to do that? If a neighbor is shooting at your house & family, then how can you "leave [them] behind"?
They can stop building settlements so close; add a buffer zone, defined by the missile range. It is like wanting to build on a beautiful scenic plot of land, that is in a flood plain. Periodically, it gets a major flood, and although scary, everyone still wants to be bailed by the state, and given money to rebuild. This gets old. How about one bail out, and you are on your own, like in hurricane prone flood areas in USA; no insurance can be obtained.

The other problem is Hamas, which is more of a Mafia, than a Democratically elected group of Palestinian leaders. This Mafia tends to rule with fear, allowing them to leverage human shields and occupy homes and businesses, thereby spinning their illegal self defense, as an assault on civilians.

The solution is to have elections and choose people who are anti-mafia, so the human shields are no longer allowed nor can the State commandeer homes and private buildings to use a headquarters and propaganda decoys to spread their blame.

Israel is going after the Hamas Mafia, since they do not go by the rules of the Geneva Convention. Their fear tactics, among their own people, will never allow for peace. Israel is doing the peaceful Palestinians a favor. This mafia purge could lead to self rule as a Democratic State, that can then get first world help, for modernization. The US is pro-democracy and helps peaceful countries. But it will not help if there is Mafia rule. The US should apply these standards to itself.

Palestine reminds me of the inner city gang problem in Liberal run cities in the USA. Good kids; mostly boys, have a hard time staying good, since they will be approached by the younger gang members, trying to recruit them. If they refuse, they will be harassed and then even abused, until they leave or cooperate. Otherwise, good young people get forced to carry the dirty water. There is confusion in terms of who is who, and why????
 
Last edited:

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
That's why the problem is so intractable. The people and the leaders of both sides need to sincerely want peace. Someday...
I agree.
I would go so far as to say that it's not enough that both sides "want peace" as long as both sides have things that they value more than peace.
Each side might say something like, "I want peace, but..."
But what? But there is something else that's more important to them than peace.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
How is Israel to do that? If a neighbor is shooting at your house & family, then how can you "leave [them] behind"?
Yeah, the examples I gave are way more complicated than your neighbor shooting at you.
 
Top