Puranic and/or non-tantric Shaivism/Skaktism today?

[Bhadr]

Of all the Shaiva sects I've looked into, Saiva Siddhanta appeals to me the most. But I think they put emphasis on the Agamas in addition to the devotional Tamil works, although I could be wrong about that. I'm also not sure how much they value the Puranas.

There are dualists,monists and bhaktas.
Vinayakaji has already explained his tradition's approach.

I'm monistic Saiva Siddhanta, and you are correct. Not much emphasis on Puranas, but really not all that much emphasis on scripture period. Its more of a living tradition, where the living Guru's words are the individualized scripture, so to speak.

In dualistic tradition I observed that Puranas may play certain roles but it is not what you are looking for,its not Purana centric as such.Many Puranas were translated from Sanskrit to Tamil long back,these are popular.At the nucleus is Siddhanta because it is derived from the Siddhanta Agamas.The Agamas are extensive,independent,on par with Vedas and are higher than others.(I heard that some venerable Acharyas of dualistic sampradaya considered the Agamas as self-sufficient in all respects and did not refer to any other scriptures.The monists it appears are relatively less exclusive than some dualists on this issue as they seem to give same priority to scriptures such as Veda-Upanishads)

But the common devotee not attached to a Guru lineage is mostly just a bhaktar with no scripture at all, just as the Nayanars were.

True,point to be noted.
The Tirumurai is treated with much reverence by all.The Nayanars are held in high esteem by other traditions.(Virashaivas and Smartas)

[The hymns though are essentially devotional (and philosophical),they are also used in temples for ritualistic purposes and some are laden with potency due to which they are utilized for special applications(such as attaining various things,thwarting malefic effects etc.)].

The other thing I should mention is that temples often fit everyone, so the individual can be of whatever sect or mindset. and still do his thing. This is especially true of the non-congregational South style temples. At the one I attend we get a smattering of people from all over India and elsewhere. They come for the sannidhya (feeling of God's presence) not the philosophy. So if you can find a temple like that to go to, you can THINK about it any way you personally wish.

.

 

[Tabu]

That was OK for Mr. Lekhraj Kripalani who had eight Parvatis. Which Shiva would not like to have eight Parvatis? Goel Ratzon in Israel had 32, Joseph Smith had 40.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Polygamist_cults

8 to 8 billion , but with strict celibacy , any takers ?
Anyways, Lekhraj Kirpalani is/was , never considered Shiva , and the first batch of souls who were trained to carry forward this task were never considered his Parvatis , but all souls including that of Dada Lekhraj are Parvatis of incorporeal Shiv , who doesn't enter any womb , nor does He get caught in this cycle of birth and rebirth . He (Shiv) , is the reserve , the Ocean , which replenishes all souls when they become dirty , tired and famished towards the end of the KalYug.
You would be surprised to know that , all the souls who were around Dada Lekhraj ,including the 8 used to call him Baba(Father) , and this was the kind of love (fatherly) , they had for him.
Any more allegations ? , I love to hear.

 

[Aupmanyav]

8 to 8 billion , but with strict celibacy, any takers ?

Thanks. I have read that in a billion years' time, Earth will become so hot that all water will disappear from the face of Earth, and the Human race will not survive. I am worried that where will my progeny go? And you want to finish all this in just a hundred years' time with celibacy. And we know what all these celibacy-claimers do.

 

[Tabu]

Thanks. I have read that in a billion years' time, Earth will become so hot that all water will disappear from the face of Earth, and the Human race will not survive. I am worried that where will my progeny go? And you want to finish all this in just a hundred years' time with celibacy. And we know what all these celibacy-claimers do.

Hmm.. Interesting , Earth will become hot , water will get dried , etc , etc .
But BKs don't claim any such thing , but , Yes they have been saying that humans would fight amongst themselves , and with this enmity and hatred cause their own extinction.
And very recently one of the greatest physicist of our times Stephen Hawkins has made a similar prediction ,
"The theoretical physicist identified artificial intelligence (AI), nuclear war and genetically-engineered viruses as just some of the man-made problems that pose an imminent threat to humanity."
"We are at a point in history where we are "trapped" by our own advances, with humanity increasingly at risk from man-made threats but without technology sophisticated enough to escape from Earth in the event of a cataclysm"
http://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...veals-science-advances-could-DESTROY-HUMANITY
And celibacy is not something new to the Indian culture , the deities were celibate because they were innocent , Sanyasis chose celibacy as a means of detachment , and previously it was common for people above 60 years . And youth were recommended to remain Brahmacharis(celibate) till they reach 25 years of age as a means of self control.
The present marketing which thrives primarily on seduction makes all this seem impossible.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But BKs don't claim any such thing .. And celibacy is not something new to the Indian culture ..

Some reading of science might be useful .. Remember, this is 'Kaliyuga'. Many strange things happen in Kaliyuga.

 

[Tabu]

Some reading of science might be useful .. Remember, this is 'Kaliyuga'. Many strange things happen in Kaliyuga.

Even Atheists believe in Kalyug ? I though this is the golden age for atheists , with all the advancements and all ignorance's left behind .

 

[ShivaFan]

"childlike love for the Mother the way Parvati does"

"I prefer bhakti and personal, emotional devotion to rituals and practices"

... There is a Saiva bhakti rasa in the sect of Murugan, Subrahmanya, Kumara (viz Shiva's son Who holds the Vel) ... you might explore this.

http://murugan.org/

 

[Aupmanyav]

Even Atheists believe in Kalyug ? I though this is the golden age for atheists , with all the advancements and all ignorance's left behind .

Where has the ignorance been left behind? You still believe in Brahmas taking birth on Earth, who choose eight women as their their trusties (does not make any difference. The women would do what you want them to do). Till ignorance is eradicated, it is a dark age. And it is ignorance to believe in existence of Gods, and Brahmas dispatched by them. All such are charlatans only. Deities are our cultural figures/characters of mythology, whose stories tell us what to do and what not to do.

 

[Tabu]

Where has the ignorance been left behind? You still believe in Brahmas taking birth on Earth, who choose eight women as their their trusties (does not make any difference. The women would do what you want them to do). Till ignorance is eradicated, it is a dark age. And it is ignorance to believe in existence of Gods, and Brahmas dispatched by them. All such are charlatans only. Deities are our cultural figures/characters of mythology, whose stories tell us what to do and what not to do.

So , I am one of the reasons why you still believe in Kalyug , well I believe in Kalyug for the quite opposite reasons.
Ignorance to me is to be ignorant of one's true identity ( swaroop = Swa + Roop = Identity of the Soul).
Plain material knowledge is like a blind driver, driving a sophisticated car, momentarily enjoying the speed , but without the eyes of the soul, the car , the driver and every one around is in great danger . This is the warning BKs have been continuously giving.
Wake up souls from sleep of Kumbakaran , and know that you are not bodily beings , this body is just your costume , your chariot , and you the soul is the charioteer , and your Swadharm is peace.
And what's wrong with the atheists , they deny God , pointing towards the injustices going around the world and saying , 'if God really exists , He would have surely done something about that'
And finally when it is the dawn for the Sun of Knowledge ,after the dark night , you have got so used to darkness that you deny the very possibility of light.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What is soul?

 

[Tabu]

What is soul?

Hope this helps

 

[Kirran]

Hope this helps

For BKers, is the soul a spark off from God, or how is it seen? Or is it part of God, wave on the ocean kind of deal?

 

[Bhadr]

There is a sub-forum to discuss New Religious Movements.Isn't this a DIR?

 

[Kirran]

There is a sub-forum to discuss New Religious Movements.Isn't this a DIR?

@Tabu, are you a Hindu?

 

[Bhadr]

I would like to open a DIR on Brahmakumaris . I would like to know the procedure to go about this.
"Brahma Kumaris is a worldwide spiritual movement dedicated to world renewal through personal transformation, by inculcating the values of peace , love and harmony. Founded in India in 1937, Brahma Kumaris have spread to over 110 countries on all continents , their real commitment is to help individuals transform their perspective of the world from material to spiritual."

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hope this helps

Hardly. Ad, blurb. Give me some hard evidence if you have any.
Kindly remember that you are talking to a person who has been an atheist advaitist for upward of 25 years.

 

[Tabu]

For BKers, is the soul a spark off from God, or how is it seen? Or is it part of God, wave on the ocean kind of deal?

According to Bks , the soul and Supreme Soul are two distinct entities.
Both are subtle points of light , and their original home is Shantidaam (abode of peace ) , also called as ParamDham .

 

[Tabu]

There is a sub-forum to discuss New Religious Movements.Isn't this a DIR?

I am sorry about that , but the discussion took its own course.
Aupji is asking for hard evidence , can I continue on this thread or do I open a new one.?
( Not a very hard thing to decide , I hope though )

 

[Vinayaka]

When the thread veers off topic like this, its probably best to start a new one. It saves people time from reading all the off topic stuff. If it's not Hindu related, or you're not Hindu, then there are several choices to put stuff in, like 'Religious debates' or some such thing.

 

[Kirran]

I am sorry about that , but the discussion took its own course.
Aupji is asking for hard evidence , can I continue on this thread or do I open a new one.?
( Not a very hard thing to decide , I hope though )

The issue is as much that the Hinduism DIR is for people who identify as Hindu. Perhaps in the general Dharmic DIR would be cool. Or in a Debate area, if you wanna be proving something to someone.

I'm kind of easy, it's a movement which has emerged within the Hindu framework even if you don't wanna call yourself Hindu no more.