Q&A about Judaism

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

@MayPeaceBeUpOnYou , is this legible? The forum software required that I reduce the image quality. Maybe you can zoom in? If not, let me know and I'll figure something out.

@Elliott is referring to the bottom of page 98, but as I mentioned in my previous post to him, it's written that the Jewish people will return. That's on page 99.

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Yes I can read it clearly, thanks

 

[dybmh]

^ unhelpful ad hominem

It's unhelpful for your campaign? You're welcome to deny it, but what I wrote is true. This is not a debate thread, btw.

 

[Elliott]

Thanks for the references. I found this site, is the translation accurate

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8210/jewish/Chapter-15.htm#lt=primary

The translation is fine, but it doesn't address what i was talking about.

 

[Elliott]

Have you forgotten that the land is an eternal inheritance? Eternal, Ad-Olam.



I'll check it out, but.... the Torah and Tanach very clearly state repeatedly that the land is eternally a Jewish homeland. I'll post a few examples, but, there are so many that it would take several posts to list them all.

Gen 13:15

כי את־כל־הארץ אשר־אתה ראה לך אתננה ולזרעך עד־עולם׃
For all the land which you see, to you will I give it, and to your seed forever.

Gen 17:8

ונתתי לך ולזרעך אחריך את ארץ מגריך את כל־ארץ כנען לאחזת עולם והייתי להם לאלהים׃
And I will give to you, and to your seed after you, the land where you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 37:25,26

וישבו על־הארץ אשר נתתי לעבדי ליעקב אשר ישבו־בה אבותיכם וישבו עליה המה ובניהם ובני בניהם עד־עולם ודוד עבדי נשיא להם לעולם׃
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, where your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell in it, they and their children, and their grandchildren for ever; and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

וכרתי להם ברית שלום ברית עולם יהיה אותם ונתתים והרביתי אותם ונתתי את־מקדשי בתוכם לעולם׃
And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.



It's written we will break the rules, we will be expelled, and then we will return to our eternal inheritance. It's not a matter of IF we follow the rules then... It was written. You will fail and break the covenant, but I the Lord will never break my promise to you. Our God is not a man. Our God does not break its promises. That's what's written.

Leviticus

26:43
והארץ תעזב מהם ותרץ את־שבתתיה בהשמה מהם והם ירצו את־עונם יען וביען במשפטי מאסו ואת־חקתי געלה נפשם׃
The land also shall be left by them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lies desolate without them; and they shall accept the punishment of their iniquity; because, because they despised my judgments, and because their soul loathed my statutes.


26:44
ואף גם־זאת בהיותם בארץ איביהם לא־מאסתים ולא־געלתים לכלתם להפר בריתי אתם כי אני יהוה אלהיהם׃
And yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor will I loathe them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God.


26:45
וזכרתי להם ברית ראשנים אשר הוצאתי־אתם מארץ מצרים לעיני הגוים להיות להם לאלהים אני יהוה׃
But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God; I am the Lord.

So the question becomes, how do we explain the fact that we were banished from the land not once, but twice? That by definition is not eternal.

It is of course true that we would return to the land, that was never in question.

 

[dybmh]

So the question becomes, how do we explain the fact that we were banished from the land not once, but twice? That by definition is not eternal.

It's an eternal inheritance. It is not an eternal occupation.

 

[dybmh]

It is of course true that we would return to the land, that was never in question.

That's Zionism. Basically.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Hi, I'm an Orthodox Jew, of a subset that is known in Israel as Dati Leumi (National Religious). I don't believe that Zionism is contradictory to Judaism, rather it is part and parcel of our beliefs. Is there anything more specific you would like to know?

Hi there. Thanks for giving your perspective and I respect your beliefs but I am looking for the perspective of the orthodox Jewish beliefs. I didn’t know that there were different movements under the orthodox believers . The thing is I like to hear about the Jewish faith that didn’t go through any sort of transformation, so basically Jews that follow all their scriptures which they did for centuries.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's unhelpful for your campaign?

 

[dybmh]

...

 

[dybmh]

The thing is I like to hear about the Jewish faith that didn’t go through any sort of transformation, so basically Jews that follow all their scriptures which they did for centuries.

I suggest caution should be taken when evaluating a devout Jew as you have described. The enemies of Israel are sometimes wearing a Jewish costume. I saw a video of these folks carrying signs on Shabbos ( the sabbath ) dressed in their ultra-orthodox attire. That's not permitted.

 

[Harel13]

Hi there. Thanks for giving your perspective and I respect your beliefs but I am looking for the perspective of the orthodox Jewish beliefs. I didn’t know that there were different movements under the orthodox believers . The thing is I like to hear about the Jewish faith that didn’t go through any sort of transformation, so basically Jews that follow all their scriptures which they did for centuries.

I can gather from your response that you aren't familiar with how Judaism works. There aren't any branches of Judaism that haven't gone through some form of transformation over the years, even Ultra-Orthodox and Karaites. One of Judaism's characteristics is adaptability. But Jews who identify with Orthodox Judaism (including subsets such as Ultra-Orthodox, National Religious and more), myself included, do indeed adhere to traditional Jewish law. In other words, I am very much a law-abiding religious Orthodox Jew. I was merely noting that I am also of a subset that is particularly Zionistic and sees Zionism and the creation of the State of Israel as heralding the long-awaited Jewish Messianic Age, thus perfectly in line with Torah and later traditional Jewish sources such as the Talmud.

 

[RabbiO]

@MayPeaceBeUpOnYou -

Perhaps you would like to reconsider and rephrase your inquiry.

 

[Elliott]

It's an eternal inheritance. It is not an eternal occupation.

That certainly does make sense when you put it that way.

 

[Elliott]

That's Zionism. Basically.

This answer doesn't sit right with me, but since i have no adequate response i will have to accept this.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I suggest caution should be taken when evaluating a devout Jew as you have described. The enemies of Israel are sometimes wearing a Jewish costume. I saw a video of these folks carrying signs on Shabbos ( the sabbath ) dressed in their ultra-orthodox attire. That's not permitted.

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Yes I get where you are coming from.
The thing is with the times we live in, When certain people wanna preserve their scriptures and tradition, so don’t want to modernize their beliefs they tend to be labeled as extremist. I think that’s not fair, and I think you would agree with me?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

I can gather from your response that you aren't familiar with how Judaism works. There aren't any branches of Judaism that haven't gone through some form of transformation over the years, even Ultra-Orthodox and Karaites. One of Judaism's characteristics is adaptability. But Jews who identify with Orthodox Judaism (including subsets such as Ultra-Orthodox, National Religious and more), myself included, do indeed adhere to traditional Jewish law. In other words, I am very much a law-abiding religious Orthodox Jew. I was merely noting that I am also of a subset that is particularly Zionistic and sees Zionism and the creation of the State of Israel as heralding the long-awaited Jewish Messianic Age, thus perfectly in line with Torah and later traditional Jewish sources such as the Talmud.

Alright that’s interesting and thanks for clarifying.
I am gonna take a step back and want to know something .
1. Three types off Jews Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Mizrahi. Are these terms still being used or what?
I know this is more like the region where they lived back then but most of them moved to Israel. Are one of these three a majority now and is there theological differences between them?
2. Mizrahi are they scattered among the denominations or are they only found in 1 denomination?

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

@MayPeaceBeUpOnYou -

Perhaps you would like to reconsider and rephrase your inquiry.

Yeah I think that is a good idea

 

[dybmh]

This answer doesn't sit right with me, but since i have no adequate response i will have to accept this.

Zionism is, basically, the *idealistic* *optimistic* returning to our ancestral homeland.

 

[dybmh]

Yes I get where you are coming from.
The thing is with the times we live in, When certain people wanna preserve their scriptures and tradition, so don’t want to modernize their beliefs they tend to be labeled as extremist. I think that’s not fair, and I think you would agree with me?

Yes, but those folks, the ones who are out marching to "Feel Palestine" that look like ultra-orthodox Jews are wearing a costume. They're imposters. Unless one knows the law in detail, one would not notice the faults. The tzittzit, for example, which they are wearing are like a scarf with little tassels. That's not kosher. They're impostors. I had wondered about it prior to seeing them carrying signs on the Sabbath. Once I saw that... well. I knew. They're pretending to be orthodox.

 

[MayPeaceBeUpOnYou]

Yes, but those folks, the ones who are out marching to "Feel Palestine" that look like ultra-orthodox Jews are wearing a costume. They're imposters. Unless one knows the law in detail, one would not notice the faults. The tzittzit, for example, which they are wearing are like a scarf with little tassels. That's not kosher. They're impostors. I had wondered about it prior to seeing them carrying signs on the Sabbath. Once I saw that... well. I knew. They're pretending to be orthodox.

Are you referring to what happend couple days back?