Question about Michael Brown leads to beating on St. Louis light rail train

[Wirey]

So are you saying police just like to harass these minorities for no reason? And that blacks and Hispanics are not really disproportionately involved in crime requiring more police attention.

I'm white and grew up in a predominantly black neighbourhood, and I'm saying the police are racist here in socialist Canada, and seem even worse in the States. I can remember multiple instances where the police stopped my friends and I, and while I got to go home they got to answer questions. If you think for a second the bulk of police officers aren't racist, you're deluding yourself. They picked out a job that came with a portable phallic symbol for a reason.

 

[George-ananda]

I'm white and grew up in a predominantly black neighbourhood, and I'm saying the police are racist here in socialist Canada, and seem even worse in the States. I can remember multiple instances where the police stopped my friends and I, and while I got to go home they got to answer questions. If you think for a second the bulk of police officers aren't racist, you're deluding yourself. They picked out a job that came with a portable phallic symbol for a reason.

But don't blacks commit crimes and other social wrongs at disproportionately higher rates than whites and asians? Police officers obviously see the patterns on a day-to-day basis and it must psychologically grind on them. We don't have robots to do their jobs, but all in all I think very highly of police officers. The root of the problem is the disproportionate amount of crime and social problems in black communities. Some amount of police dislike is the predictable psychological consequence of the problem, not the root of the problem.

 

[jonathan180iq]

The root of the problem is the disproportionate amount of crime and social problems in black communities.

That's the "root" of the problem? It has nothing to do with socio-economic status? There's an equally high percentage of crime among affluent black communities as there is among low-income black communities?

Nope.

But don't blacks commit crimes and other social wrongs at disproportionately higher rates than whites and asians?

If you incorporate the metric of wealth, and social andeconomic conditions, the answer is simply no.

If you want to talk about the root of the problem, then you have to look at all of the data, not just that which confirms your bias.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

But don't blacks commit crimes and other social wrongs at disproportionately higher rates than whites and asians? Police officers obviously see the patterns on a day-to-day basis and it must psychologically grind on them. We don't have robots to do their jobs, but all in all I think very highly of police officers. The root of the problem is the disproportionate amount of crime and social problems in black communities. Some amount of police dislike is the predictable psychological consequence of the problem, not the root of the problem.

Whites have been shown to break the law in relatively equal rates, but are not profiled by law enforcement in the same manner.

 

[George-ananda]

That's the "root" of the problem? It has nothing to do with socio-economic status? There's an equally high percentage of crime among affluent black communities as there is among low-income black communities?

Nope.



If you incorporate the metric of wealth, and social andeconomic conditions, the answer is simply no.

If you want to talk about the root of the problem, then you have to look at all of the data, not just that which confirms your bias.

Bad behavior and low socio-economic status certainly form a vicious circle. I am a believer that genetics is a factor in criminality and bad social behavior (not that I wish that to be the case, but I believe it just 'is' whether we deny it or not). I do not believe people with Japanese genetics would get so trapped in that vicious circle we see in American inner-cities. I guess that makes me a scientific racist (who harbors no ill-feelings to anyone but accepts facts). Actually "Ethnic Differences Realist' would be a better term for my position. Traits fall along a bell-curve for each major ethnic group but the center point of the bell curves is not the same. There will be successful and unsuccessful individuals in all groups but it won't be in the same proportions.

 

[George-ananda]

Whites have been shown to break the law in relatively equal rates,

I don't buy that.

 

[fantome profane]

I don't buy that.

You need to show evidence that Blacks are genetically more prone to commit crimes then Whites are. Because I think that is absolute crap.

I guess that makes me a scientific racist

I disagree. Nothing in the posts you have made on this board or the positions you have supported has ever given any indications that you deserve the description "scientific".

 

[Wirey]

But don't blacks commit crimes and other social wrongs at disproportionately higher rates than whites and asians?

No, they're arrested and convicted at a higher rate. I know two white guys who paid their way through university selling weed, and one black guy who got arrested for doing the same thing.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Bad behavior and low socio-economic status certainly form a vicious circle. I am a believer that genetics is a factor in criminality and bad social behavior (not that I wish that to be the case, but I believe it just 'is' whether we deny it or not). I do not believe people with Japanese genetics would get so trapped in that vicious circle we see in American inner-cities. I guess that makes me a scientific racist (who harbors no ill-feelings to anyone but accepts facts). Traits fall along a bell-curve for each major ethnic group but the center point of the bell curves is not the same. There will be successful and unsuccessful individuals in all groups but it won't be in the same proportions.

This admission is pretty astonishing. It is the very definition of racism.
You're essentially just a few steps removed from eugenics.

 

[Revoltingest]

Whites have been shown to break the law in relatively equal rates, but are not profiled by law enforcement in the same manner.

Evidence?

 

[Revoltingest]

No, they're arrested and convicted at a higher rate. I know two white guys who paid their way through university selling weed, and one black guy who got arrested for doing the same thing.

The only people I personally know who were prosecuted for selling drugs are white males.
Hard to discern the larger picture from personal experience, eh?

 

[Wirey]

Yes. But when everyone seems to notice the same thing.......

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I don't buy that.

Read Part 2 on this report by Human Rights Watch on "Who Engages in Illicit Drug Use?"

http://m.hrw.org/sites/default/files/related_material/8 Fellner_FINAL.pdf

There are other reports that corroborate the evidence. Look at the difference between conviction and incarceration rates of powder cocaine (illegal, but popular among upper middle class to wealthy whites) and crack-cocaine (illegal, but popular among poor minority populations).

 

[MysticSang'ha]

This admission is pretty astonishing. It is the very definition of racism.
You're essentially just a few steps removed from eugenics.

I agree.

And yet, this admission doesn't get the crowd riled up on RF as much as somebody suggesting that racial profiling even exists in any topic of debate of an occurrance. It's typically suggested that racial profiling is hyperbolic or doesn't exist at all....OR it exists, but the people targeted deserve it. OR derailment occurs, such as racial profiling may exist, but white people get targeted too.

Watch.

 

[George-ananda]

You need to show evidence that Blacks are genetically more prone to commit crimes then Whites are. Because I think that is absolute crap.

For evidence I can point to the many works of social science professors like Charles Murray, Richard Hernstein, Phillip Rushton, etc..

Certainly it is controversial and we each form our own opinion.

 

[George-ananda]

This admission is pretty astonishing.

It is astonishing when someone can think objectively about something and not cower to what society demands you to accept. I believe discrimination and mistreatment is wrong but genetics has a place in understanding the world's social conditions. How astonishing!

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes. But when everyone seems to notice the same thing.......

That can be due to what people tend to notice.
At one time, black folk were commonly considered to be greatly inferior to white folk.
That was commonly noticed too.

 

[Wirey]

Fair enough. But statistically, black people in countries outside the US don't seem to be as criminal.

 

[Revoltingest]

Fair enough. But statistically, black people in countries outside the US don't seem to be as criminal.

Nonetheless, there is the possibility that due to history & local factors that black folk could be slightly more prone to criminal behavior. After all, we acknowledge that white folk are more racist, men are more sexist, & Republicans are more immoral. Why couldn't there be such variation among groups?

The larger issue is that cops abuse all people.
More white guys are killed than black guys, but this attracts less attention since most cops are white. If we can improve the overall situation of cop abuse, then racism will be mitigated too.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I believe discrimination and mistreatment is wrong but genetics has a place in understanding the world's social conditions

Please cite something to corroborate this claim. I'll accept nothing less than peer reviewed data, since you're claiming the ability to judge ethnicities based on genetics and science.

It's absolutely ridiculous.