Question for Atheists...

[Audie]

How did you manage to pack so much wrongness into so few words? The universe didn't begin with any sort of explosion. It couldn't have been 'of energy' even if it did. Energy isn't a thing itself, it is a property or other things. The island of sense is that the earliest moments after what would be the singularity if we ignore everything else and just use GR, are indeed unknown. Then back to the nonsense - it didn't need to expand into anything at all (except the future), so there is no second unknown state.


Geometry is the only clue we have as to whether space is finite or infinite. It appears to be flat, and the simplest topology associated with flat geometry is infinite.


Gibberish. "Here" and "there" both require space. You can't have anything 'beyond' space, it literally makes no sense.


There is no evidence and no scientific or logical reason to suppose that there is anything apart from the space-time.


The only 'edge' we have any evidence for is the limit of our observations.

How would you explain the habit our
theist sorts have, of just saying things?

 

[ratiocinator]

How would you explain the habit our
theist sorts have, of just saying things?

It's a bit bizarre, quite frankly. Some don't seem to understand when they are talking about things that they don't understand...

 

[nPeace]

Proof is the problem, and atheists have been asking for proof for many things in Bible without any response other than faith.
No. Bible does not do that. What is the proof of immaculate conception or resurrection of Jesus?

There is only evidence for things you cannot directly see. so why are you asking for proof.
You don't even do that with science, so there seems to be a catch. It looks like a strawman.

 

[Audie]

There is only evidence for things you cannot directly see. so why are you asking for proof.
You don't even do that with science, so there seems to be a catch. It looks like a strawman.

It is. Yours.
Nobody except some crestionists
asks for proof. Get over it already

 

[YmirGF]

View attachment 78617​

What caused you to stop believing in the supernatural?

Believing in the supernatural is not rational but at one time, I couldn't see that. It seemed the most rational thing in the world to believe in the supernatural. I did so without question. Rational meaning to develop your thoughts based on reason and logic. I suppose I lack a rational mind but didn't know it. The only requirement to be rational, I thought, was to have a brain.

Or perhaps you never believed in them. Good for you. You were born with a more rational mind.

I suspect I kept asking why and how. Perhaps that simply causes one's mind to become more rational overtime.

I don't mean to be rude but are you by any chance autistic or slightly autistic as that may well explain your somewhat odd observances here.

I used to adore horror movies because I still believed in the underpinning concepts that make many of them scary. Then, I changed my beliefs and I unwittingly neutered "horror" movies for myself. I don't find them scary or even slightly frightening now, to the point that they have become tedious side adventures in script-writing. As one posited above, I grew up.

 

[F1fan]

We can know that such a condition exists without knowing how or why. The simple fact that the universe is finite implies that something exists beyond it and apart from it.

So you reject empty vaccuum? What evidence is there that implies there is something rather than empty vaccuum? Cite experts.

And since the universe defines "nature", whatever exists beyond or apart from it is by definition "supernatural".

Anthing that exists is nature. Supernatural is synonymous with imaginary.

Thus the cosmological "singularity" is by definition supernatural. Even though we have no idea how or why.

Who says this? Hawking? Your mom? Angels speaking to you in your dreams?

 

[Nakosis]

I don't mean to be rude but are you by any change autistic or slightly autistic as that may well explain you somewhat odd observances here.

I used to adore horror movies because I still believed in the underpinning concepts that make many of them scary. Then, I changed my beliefs and I unwittingly neutered "horror" movies for myself. I don't find them scary or even slightly frightening now, to the point that they have become tedious side adventures in script-writing. As one posited above, I grew up.

Not that I am aware of. However I have always been highly introspective.
I never liked the idea of not being in control of my thoughts.
For example I didn't like being made afraid. So I always tried to find the rational behind my emotions.

 

[F1fan]

There is only evidence for things you cannot directly see.

So are you saying that we can't see OJ kill his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, so we have to rely on the evidence to come to a sound conclusion that he did?

If so, so since we can't see God, or Jesus being crucified, or salvation actually working, that we have to rely on evidence? OK, where is that conclusive evidence that would convince a jury? As you are aware many rational thinkers are not convinced Christian ideas are true, so why are so many believers convinced on weak evidence?

so why are you asking for proof.

If "Jesus saves" that would be an observed phenomenon. Why isn't there conclusive results from being "born again"?

If the Genesis stories are true there would be observations that support it, as opposed to observations that demonstrate a literal interpretation (creationism) is false.

 

[nPeace]

There are Christians today... many of them, who were atheist for most their life. So "Christians don't come to sound conclusoons... They learn from an early age..." is not a sensible statement to make.

Atheists are a set of people who have spent time actively considering religious ideas. You seem to be confusing non-religiously active people as atheists. That is manipulative. You are trying to tweek the data to make it seem like there are atheists who have a change of heart over religious ideas.

What happens to some folk is they don't think about religion at all, but at some point in their life they have a crisis or get married or some other reason to identify with religious ideas. These folks have already been exposed to the ideas all their life, and now they are just deciding to value them. They don't think about religious ideas and deem them improbable, the ideas are simply dormant.

I couldn't just let this one go.
No Atheists are not a set of people who have spent time actively considering religious ideas.
An atheist does not believe in gods or God. You are refining the definition, for your own purposes.

If you disagree with that definition, you probably are the only atheist with your own definition of atheism... and I will have to ask for a reference supporting your definition.

If none are available, that means I don't have to find some atheists who say different.
Whether a person has a crisis or not, and starts to consider seriously if there is a God, is irrelevant to the fact that they are atheists.

It's not well thought out, and demonstrated irrationality.

Oh the irony. Your objectivity and reasoning skill is dismal.

No. It looks like you have everything in reverse... but that happens when you live in a box and only see your side, and yourself. You start to build up this world of seeking to establish your own righteousness. Not realizing it's a mirage.
That's the world of atheism.

 

[ratiocinator]

So you reject empty vaccuum?

Just to be clear here. Even if the universe is finite, it doesn't need empty vacuum to expand into. It is space itself that expands and it is the volume of space itself that would be finite.

 

[nPeace]

OK, where is that conclusive evidence that would convince a jury?

We went through this twice before.
Until you provide what I asked you for, don't ask again.

 

[F1fan]

Just to be clear here. Even if the universe is finite, it doesn't need empty vacuum to expand into. It is space itself that expands and it is the volume of space itself that would be finite.

I'm not sure what would define space from not space. Can we guess that 'not space' is where purex's God hangs out, at least on weekends? I hear they have a brunch that's out of this world.

 

[Audie]

.....build up this world of seeking to establish your own righteousness. Not realizing it's a mirage.
That's the world of atheism.

Making things up, or just adopting what someone else made up, then pretending that makes them right, and righteous, is exactly the world of so many theists.

 

[F1fan]

We went through this twice before.

And you still get your science wrong, and that's because you have adopted an irrational religious framework.

Until you provide what I asked you for, don't ask again.

Getting antagonistic, eh? All you have to do is get science right, then you can have all the religious beliefs you want. When you get science wrong because of a bad religious framework, then your religion is false. Your safe space is getting science right so your religious beliefs aren't open to be criticized.

 

[nPeace]

And you still get your science wrong, and that's because you have adopted an irrational religious framework.

Getting antagonistic, eh? All you have to do is get science right, then you can have all the religious beliefs you want. When you get science wrong, then your religion is false. Your safe space is getting science right so your religious beliefs aren't open to be criticized.

I would yap too, if I could not provide any evidence for my beliefs.

 

[F1fan]

I couldn't just let this one go.

Of course not.

No Atheists are not a set of people who have spent time actively considering religious ideas.
An atheist does not believe in gods or God. You are refining the definition, for your own purposes.

And the reason atheists are atheists is because they have thought about many religious claims of gods existing, or gods doing things, or whatever religious folk claim. The evidence is not only lacking, but most of the claims are inconsistent with what we understand as reality.

You appear to be confusing people who aren't religious as atheists. Many folks don't pray or go to church but still identify as Christian. Your claim that these indifferent folks becoming religious for some reason are examples of atheists becoming theists. That is dubious. You need to cite people who classify themselves as atheists and then become theists.

You seem more upset that atheists exist than the reasons we reject your beliefs and claims.

If you disagree with that definition, you probably are the only atheist with your own definition of atheism... and I will have to ask for a reference supporting your definition.

Instead of guessing why not ask people.

If none are available, that means I don't have to find some atheists who say different.
Whether a person has a crisis or not, and starts to consider seriously if there is a God, is irrelevant to the fact that they are atheists.

There's nothing like an emotional crisis to hone reasoning skills and objectivity, eh?

No. It looks like you have everything in reverse...

Coming from a person who rejects science for a religious framework.

but that happens when you live in a box and only see your side, and yourself. You start to build up this world of seeking to establish your own righteousness. Not realizing it's a mirage.

Even more irony. Feeling stress?

That's the world of atheism.

And you know the "world of atheism" because you are a fervent believer? Or is it something you're afraid of because atheists follow facts and use reason against your dubious religious beliefs?

 

[F1fan]

I would yap too, if I could not provide any evidence for my beliefs.

You yap excessively, as if to avoid the fact you lack evidence.

 

[nPeace]

You yap excessively, as if to avoid the fact you lack evidence.

More yapping.

 

[nPeace]

Of course not.

And the reason atheists are atheists is because they have thought about many religious claims of gods existing, or gods doing things, or whatever religious folk claim. The evidence is not only lacking, but most of the claims are inconsistent with what we understand as reality.

You appear to be confusing people who aren't religious as atheists. Many folks don't pray or go to church but still identify as Christian. Your claim that these indifferent folks becoming religious for some reason are examples of atheists becoming theists. That is dubious. You need to cite people who classify themselves as atheists and then become theists.

You seem more upset that atheists exist than the reasons we reject your beliefs and claims.

Instead of guessing why not ask people.

Man... get out that box. It's got you living like you are the only one that knows anything.
I know atheists. They recount their life's experience. They didn't spend their life thinking about religious claims of gods.
In fact, most would probably not be atheists so long, if they did.

No reference? Figured.

There's nothing like an emotional crisis to hone reasoning skills and objectivity, eh?

You would know... but then again scratch that. I don't think you know anything outside that box.

Coming from a person who rejects science for a religious framework.

There you go again. Scientists reject science because they are religious. Oh my head.

Even more irony. Feeling stress?

I think it's clear who's under stress right now. Feigning composure isn't hiding it.

And you know the "world of atheism" because you are a fervent believer? Or is it something you're afraid of because atheists follow facts and use reason against your dubious religious beliefs?

Ha Ha Ha. That's all I'll say.

 

[F1fan]

Man... get out that box. It's got you living like you are the only one that knows anything.
I know atheists. They recount their life's experience. They didn't spend their life thinking about religious claims of gods.
In fact, most would probably not be atheists so long, if they did.

That is inconsistent with what I have read of atheists, and that includes myself.

You would know... but then again scratch that. I don't think you know anything outside that box.

More irony from the "I live in a religious box" crowd. I have read many testimonies from people who went from being indifferent to religion to devout due to a life crisis, whether it was drug use, trauma, loss of a loved one, etc. The trauma forces folks to seek coping, and religion is a prevalent framework that can be used immediately. The traumatized can find support from religion and religious folks when needed, and the comfort they find is very influential on their beliefs. None of this is a reasoned conversion to religion, but an emotional depenency.

There you go again. Scientists reject science because they are religious. Oh my head.

I'm referring to folks like you who aren't sciencetists and reject science. You do so for religious reasons, not due to superior understanding of the facts. You are misrepresenting what I say deliberately, as if you are trying to deflect from the fact you reject science that your religious belief conflicts with.

I think it's clear who's under stress right now. Feigning composure isn't hiding it.

More snarky defensiveness. Beware of asking atheists questions that hurt.