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Question for Atheists...

nPeace

Veteran Member
I do not differ with the first line.
"Schlegal and colleagues had expected the visual cortex – the part of the brain that processes imagery – to be actively involved in driving mental manipulation. Their study confirmed this, but they also discovered that several other regions appeared to be involved in manipulating imaginary shapes."
I have no problem with this too. White matter or Grey matter, all that is in the box above our neck, works as a unit. Sure, it will be difficult to pick out each and every neuron among the 8 0 b i l l i o n that we have, which may be involved in creating a thought.

Your second link is a blog, so I completely disregard it.
Are you admitting that man cannot determine that desires, intentions, emotions, and thoughts, are physical?
Likely not... but why? Is it because you will believe only what can be seen?
Can you see, my desires, thoughts, intentions? No. You can't.

So, by definition, they are not physical.
Also, by determination, they are not... that is, by the determinant... not man.

Their mind and its contents cannot be observed directly, so the existence and nature of the mind must be inferred. The presumption that others have a mind is termed a theory of mind because each human can only observe their own mind (via introspection); no one has direct access to the mind of another. It is typically assumed that others have minds analogous to one's own; this assumption is based on reciprocal social interaction, as observed in joint attention, the functional use of language, and the understanding of others' emotions and actions.

Yes, there are such things as physical, mental, and spiritual, and those do not change form based on what man believes.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I never said that believing in the supernatural is irrational. As a matter of fact, I do not possess any rational means that easily defeat a general definition of supernatural. Assuming such a definition is possible at all. So, it depends on what we mean with supernatural. God. Gods. And all that stuff. All I know, is that the supernatural looks superfluous, not necessarily irrational.

It is, for instance, trivially easy to rationally kill the Christian God, under the premise that He created the world as literally described in Genesis, with 6000 years old universes, and vegan T-Rexes playing with kids, like in the Flintstones. While it becomes slightly more difficult if the Christian says Genesis is metaphorical.

so, it strongly depend on the philosophical position, and its logical strength.

ciao

- viole
Yes. The atheists' created God can easily be killed. After all, they created it, to kill it.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
My religion asks me to check evidence constantly.
All around myself and in myself, I see only an ocean of 'physical energy' and nothing else.
"Sarvam khalu idam Brahma" (All these things here are Brahman).
So you do not even realize the Spiritual being that you truly are, right? Perhaps, that is a possibility you might explore.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
That's what you believe because of your preferred Christian beliefs, but not everyone, not even every Christian, experiences what you believe.



I did for forty years, and I found nothing. I remember a scripture that states, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). Well, I sought after God for forty years with all of my heart, but I never found God. I did, however, find disappointment, heartache, and a constant feeling of hopelessness because I was left all alone to deal with the abuse, bullying, and harassment on my own while I was growing up. I also had to learn how to deal with PTSD as an adult, but fortunately for me, I have a husband who has been there for me every step of the way for the past 30 and 1/2 years.



After forty years of looking for God, I discovered that either God doesn't actually exist, or if he does, he obviously doesn't give a damn about me.



On the other hand, there are those who truly seek God for years on end only to ultimately come up empty-handed, as I did. I've said this before, and I'd like to say it again: as an ex-Christian and survivor of childhood abuse, I see God as a narcissistic and abusive parent who only "loves" you when you do or say exactly what they want you to do. And you think that if you don't make them angry, they won't hurt you, but you're not sure because they have a violent temper and are known to irrationally lash out. So, if you disobey them and make them angry, there will be hell to pay. That is not a relationship based on unconditional love, but rather one based on fear and mistrust. If God exists, then I don't believe that he is worthy of my respect and reverence, let alone my love and worship. I do believe, however, that he has earned my contempt. If God exists, then he can go to hell. He obviously doesn't think I'm worth his time, and I now don't think he's worth mine. I also see God as a sadistic and psychopathic monster who delights in inflicting pain and torturing people, as well as in causing total chaos and disasters in order to inflict pain and kill people. I certainly don't see him as loving, merciful, just, or a heavenly father.



It took me many years to finally realize that believing in God was an emotional crutch for me and a total waste of my time. Sadly, I wasted forty years of my life looking for God. I realized that he might not even exist in the first place, or if he does exist, he obviously doesn't give a damn that I suffered abuse while I was growing up or that I've dealt with PTSD as an adult because of the severe abuse, trauma, and constant bullying I suffered while growing up.



I used to believe that when I was a devout Christian as well, but then I removed my rose-colored glasses and faced my reality, which was that I had been ignorant of trusting in God for so long and had mistakenly assumed he would be my heavenly father. I eventually learned how to care for myself and my family, and I finally realized that I don't need or want God in my life and that I'm far better off emotionally without believing in and having faith in God.

Finally, I decided to share what I wrote in another thread on a related topic.

In my case, I have reason to reject belief in the biblical God because I was a very devout Christian for 30 years and genuinely believed in God for years before that, but I never experienced anything that other Christians claimed happened to them, even though we believed in the same God. For example, they claimed to experience peace and joy in their lives because they believed in God, while I, on the other hand, felt nothing but sadness and despair during the years I was a devout Christian. To be honest, I only began to feel peace and joy in my life after I renounced my belief in God and abandoned Christianity. Have you ever heard of the expression "playing church?" That's exactly what I did. I went through the motions and pretended to experience God, as other Christians claimed they had, but I never did. I tried really hard to experience God, but I felt such hopelessness whenever I tried and failed.

It took me a long time to admit that I had been pretending to experience God's presence in my life when I never genuinely did. I understood I had to be honest with myself and quit pretending. I realized that I was wasting my life by pretending to feel the presence of God in my life when he either doesn't really exist or, if he does, obviously doesn't give a damn about me. A couple of years ago, I did a lot of soul-searching and had to ask myself why I was so committed to clinging to the false hope that I had in believing in God. I realized that believing in God was an emotional crutch for me. I also recognized that if I was ever going to recover emotionally and change my life for the better, I needed to let go of that crutch. My mental health and emotional well-being have significantly improved since I disavowed my belief in God and Christianity. In retrospect, it was one of the best decisions I've ever made for myself. While I don't regret my decision, I wish that I had made it years earlier so that I could have avoided decades of depression and emotional turmoil.
Question. Were you looking for God to save you, help you, or fix everything for you? Can you see nothing but hurt and God will not prevent that hurt? Sure, you are angry because things are not going just the way you wish.

Has religion corrupted your thinking about having it made or being saved?

What have you learned? You have learned it has never ever been about Believing or Following? That did you no good.

Look at what all you have learned. How many sides of people choices have you seen? You now realize the results from the choices others have made and surely that those choices do not bring the best results. You have learned what not to do.

Pain is only a sign that something is wrong. How much wrong do you see? Is it all wrong? Do you refuse to see Good?

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts!!! Will you choose Blame, Anger, Hate? Will you Discover whether these are the Best choices to make? How could you Discover this without your journey?

Will you choose pity, helplessness, depression and inactivity? How are these choices working out? How are your choices changing yourself and those around you? For the better? Isn't it time to reach for a Higher Level and Think, then act ,rather than react to everything?

Problems do not go away until they are fixed. Are you working on the fix or simply reacting to the hurt?

Sit back and relax. Do some major THINKING!! How has your choices been working in the past? Are they helping or just generating more hurt for yourself and everyone around you? If you are making the same choices, how can you expect different results??

You may not realize this but you hold Great Power to help yourself and changing so many lives around you. Why would God stop this? God is counting on you to point the light for all around you. After all. how is the darkness just spreading and generating more hurt, hate, and teaching others to value those petty things mankind holds so dear?

We all choose how we define ourselves. Seems you have been corrupted by so many around you in your life. Choosing is far too important to allow others to make our choices for us.

You are at the point of greatness. What will you choose??? Forward, I point!! It is the way out!!!

You have all my Love and Kindness!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I see plenty of purpose in what humans create. Not so much what happens outside of that.
Start with simple things. What purpose does the sun have? What purpose does the water cycle have? What purpose does a water table supply? Can you see no purpose anywhere? What purpose is there great distances from planets and systems in the universe? What is the purpose for gender? What is the purpose for birds or even mosquitoes? What purpose does God have not speaking to everybody? What is the purpose of death?? There are an endless supply of question for those who Seek!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Question. Were you looking for God to save you, help you, or fix everything for you? Can you see nothing but hurt and God will not prevent that hurt? Sure, you are angry because things are not going just the way you wish.

Has religion corrupted your thinking about having it made or being saved?

What have you learned? You have learned it has never ever been about Believing or Following? That did you no good.

Look at what all you have learned. How many sides of people choices have you seen? You now realize the results from the choices others have made and surely that those choices do not bring the best results. You have learned what not to do.

Pain is only a sign that something is wrong. How much wrong do you see? Is it all wrong? Do you refuse to see Good?

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts!!! Will you choose Blame, Anger, Hate? Will you Discover whether these are the Best choices to make? How could you Discover this without your journey?

Will you choose pity, helplessness, depression and inactivity? How are these choices working out? How are your choices changing yourself and those around you? For the better? Isn't it time to reach for a Higher Level and Think, then act ,rather than react to everything?

Problems do not go away until they are fixed. Are you working on the fix or simply reacting to the hurt?

Sit back and relax. Do some major THINKING!! How has your choices been working in the past? Are they helping or just generating more hurt for yourself and everyone around you? If you are making the same choices, how can you expect different results??

You may not realize this but you hold Great Power to help yourself and changing so many lives around you. Why would God stop this? God is counting on you to point the light for all around you. After all. how is the darkness just spreading and generating more hurt, hate, and teaching others to value those petty things mankind holds so dear?

We all choose how we define ourselves. Seems you have been corrupted by so many around you in your life. Choosing is far too important to allow others to make our choices for us.

You are at the point of greatness. What will you choose??? Forward, I point!! It is the way out!!!

You have all my Love and Kindness!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

You have a good heart, Bird123. Thank you for your kind response.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Can you see, my desires, thoughts, intentions? No. You can't.
Do they matter? We, you and me, are just two of the 8 billion on earth (8,000,000,000). We come and go. Arise and dissipate.
We make them into huge things for ourselves.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Start with simple things. What purpose does the sun have?
Why assume it has a purpose at all? Most stars don't, after all.
What purpose does the water cycle have?
Again, why assume it has a purpose. Does it need one in order to do what it does?
What purpose does a water table supply? Can you see no purpose anywhere?
No, I really don't. I see things that humans have put to a purpose for their own ends, or that interpret as having a purpose, again for their own ends. But I don't see any purpose other than what *we* give to it.
What purpose is there great distances from planets and systems in the universe?
Again, why assume it has a purpose?
What is the purpose for gender? What is the purpose for birds or even mosquitoes? What purpose does God have not speaking to everybody? What is the purpose of death?? There are an endless supply of question for those who Seek!!!
But in all, you are assuming a form for the answer. I ask whether or not there is a purpose and find none. You ask what the purpose is and make up one that fits your biases.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
And it is becoming more clear to me all the time.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Do they matter? We, you and me, are just two of the 8 billion on earth (8,000,000,000). We come and go. Arise and dissipate.
We make them into huge things for ourselves.
They most certainly do matter.
Actually, you wouldn't be here if you thought they didn't... but that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Maybe you concede.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
They most certainly do matter.
Actually, you wouldn't be here if you thought they didn't... but that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Maybe you concede.

The question isn't whether we matter. It is who we matter to.

We don't matter on a cosmic scale, but we can, and do, matter to other individuals.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The question isn't whether we matter. It is who we matter to.

We don't matter on a cosmic scale, but we can, and do, matter to other individuals.
That is your belief. You likely believe we don't matter to any ETs out there either... supposing there are any.
You certainly are entitled to whatever belief you have.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
That is your belief. You likely believe we don't matter to any ETs out there either... supposing there are any.
You certainly are entitled to whatever belief you have.

If there are any ETs out there, I seriously doubt they are even aware we exist. There are almost certainly no such ETs within 120 light years and that's how close they would have to be to detect even our first radio emissions.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
If there are any ETs out there, I seriously doubt they are even aware we exist. There are almost certainly no such ETs within 120 light years and that's how close they would have to be to detect even our first radio emissions.
Your doubts, uncertainties, etc., are in keeping with your beliefs. They are still your beliefs.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Do you have any good reasons to think otherwise? If so, I would love to hear them.
Ha Ha. That's a classic.
No. You don't love to hear them at all Poly. You try your best to dismiss them... to your discredit, of course.
I'm not typing out those again. If you really would love to hear them, permission to quote every page on RF, where I gave you them, and what your flimsy responses were.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Ha Ha. That's a classic.
No. You don't love to hear them at all Poly. You try your best to dismiss them... to your discredit, of course.
I'm not typing out those again. If you really would love to hear them, permission to quote every page on RF, where I gave you them, and what your flimsy responses were.

Well, maybe if you could find a *good* reason. You know, one that is based on logic, observation, and understanding.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
If there are any ETs out there, I seriously doubt they are even aware we exist. There are almost certainly no such ETs within 120 light years and that's how close they would have to be to detect even our first radio emissions.
One light years is around 6 trillion miles.

120 x 6 trillion= near .75 quadrillion miles

That's pretty far ways away. I wouldn't think or claim with certainty that there could be no ET's at that distance.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
One light years is around 6 trillion miles.

120 x 6 trillion= near .75 quadrillion miles

That's pretty far ways away. I wouldn't think or claim with certainty that there could be no ET's at that distance.
The problem is that 120 light years is *very* close as far as stars go. Remember that the closest star to us (other than the sun) is over 4 light years away (25 trillion miles). Also, there are limitations to what sorts of stars are likely to have planets that could support life. A type A star, for example, is an unlikely candidate (too hot, lots of radiation, etc).

And I certainly don't claim certainty. I just find it unlikely, especially since we have not detected any ETs, even at considerably larger distances.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
The problem is that 120 light years is *very* close as far as stars go. Remember that the closest star to us (other than the sun) is over 4 light years away (25 trillion miles). Also, there are limitations to what sorts of stars are likely to have planets that could support life. A type A star, for example, is an unlikely candidate (too hot, lots of radiation, etc).

And I certainly don't claim certainty. I just find it unlikely, especially since we have not detected any ETs, even at considerably larger distances.
I don't know if ET's exist or not, however we are here.
The universe is roughly 13.5 billion years old.
Our solar system 4.5 billion years old

A lot can happen in that 9 billion years difference.
 
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