Question for Jews, Christians and Muslims

[jtartar]

I'm Jewish. Well really I'm atheist but one is the closest number to zero, so that's the closest I get to being religious. And I know that slavery is wrong.

Autodidact,
Being an autididact, doesn't mean that you know much. You really need to get a concordance.
The term SLAVE or SLAVERY, did not mean the same in Bible times as it does today. As for the term mentioned by Paul, when writing to Timothy, 1Tim 6:1-5, Paul was speaking about people who had gotten themselves into debt to someone. Many times they had to become like a slave to repay the debt. Even today economists state that a person becomes a slave to the lender.
Notice how Paul told them to treat their masters good, because they were their brothers, meaning brothers in the faith.
Some were in servitude to unbelievers. Paul wanted them to be good to their masters so that the truth of the word would not be spoken against. Remember all Christians are not to do anything that would stop anyone from listening to the truth of God's word. Not fulfilling your duty would be a bad example for even Christians today.
The Bible speaks of all Christians as being slaves to God. Many people do not like the word slave, when it pertains to them, but being a slave to God means being like a son to God, not being harshly treated as by men, but actually being in a favored position.
Remember, the Israelites were slaves to God. If you read about the things that God promised to His slaves, you would love to be in their place. Go to Deuteronomy and read some of chapterts 6-10, where it brings tears to the eyes to hear all the great promises that God made to those who wouls obey Him.
Everyone should pray with all there being to become a slave of God's!!!

 

[newhope101]

Autodidact,
Being an autididact, doesn't mean that you know much. You really need to get a concordance.
The term SLAVE or SLAVERY, did not mean the same in Bible times as it does today. As for the term mentioned by Paul, when writing to Timothy, 1Tim 6:1-5, Paul was speaking about people who had gotten themselves into debt to someone. Many times they had to become like a slave to repay the debt. Even today economists state that a person becomes a slave to the lender.
Notice how Paul told them to treat their masters good, because they were their brothers, meaning brothers in the faith.
Some were in servitude to unbelievers. Paul wanted them to be good to their masters so that the truth of the word would not be spoken against. Remember all Christians are not to do anything that would stop anyone from listening to the truth of God's word. Not fulfilling your duty would be a bad example for even Christians today.
The Bible speaks of all Christians as being slaves to God. Many people do not like the word slave, when it pertains to them, but being a slave to God means being like a son to God, not being harshly treated as by men, but actually being in a favored position.
Remember, the Israelites were slaves to God. If you read about the things that God promised to His slaves, you would love to be in their place. Go to Deuteronomy and read some of chapterts 6-10, where it brings tears to the eyes to hear all the great promises that God made to those who wouls obey Him.
Everyone should pray with all there being to become a slave of God's!!!

Well written jtartar. At least in biblical times the poor had some way to survive with dignity. There was also the 7 year thing, where a slave could be released from debt.

 

[Autodidact]

Oh yeah because antiquity was said to be a heaven for slaves as they had so much rights.

I don't know how the conditions for slaves varied from one area to another in the ANE. I haven't researched it. Have you?

So he could have been silent. But did you even think about the possibility that he probably knew that we wouldnt have been able to keep the commandment?

Think this through. Have we been able to keep any other commandment? Did He tel us how to kill people more humanely? How to commit adultery only when out of town?

So he gave us rules to actually for having slaves.

You keep ignoring the key fact: He specifically authorized us to buy slaves.

Please tell me were there other cultures that had such rules? I dont think so.

If I have time I'll try to research it. All that I'm saying now is that I don't know, and neither do you.

Also you should probably ask yourself why you care for slaves of the antiquity more than the slaves who live right now. Because you know its a real problem.

Yes, I do. What is your point? My point is that you worship and evil god.

Yes there are rules for jews on how to have a slave and the proper treatment in ancient times. Yet there is probably no jew who owns a slave.
It seems that the issue solved itself.

No thanks to the Tanakh, all due to secular, Enlightenment authorities. For example, Jews owned slaves in the U.S. south until the government made it illegal. Their religion did not stop it--secular authorities did.

Yeah i think that people back then wouldnt have been able to understand something like that because even today its something not many actually understand even if they have the proper background.

People have trouble understanding that it's not o.k. to own other people?

Ugh.
How many times have jews strayed from the law? Far too often. Yet in ancient times it was just normal to own a slave. So perhaps hashem knew that we wouldnt be able to keep the commandment. So we got rules on what to do and what not.

But why did He command us that we may own slaves? Doesn't that communicate that we may always do so? It's not like He's showed back up to amend it.

But i bet your average slave in assyria, greece or rome had it so much better.

I don't know, do you?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Autodidact,
Being an autididact, doesn't mean that you know much. You really need to get a concordance.
The term SLAVE or SLAVERY, did not mean the same in Bible times as it does today. As for the term mentioned by Paul, when writing to Timothy, 1Tim 6:1-5, Paul was speaking about people who had gotten themselves into debt to someone. Many times they had to become like a slave to repay the debt. Even today economists state that a person becomes a slave to the lender.
Notice how Paul told them to treat their masters good, because they were their brothers, meaning brothers in the faith.
Some were in servitude to unbelievers. Paul wanted them to be good to their masters so that the truth of the word would not be spoken against. Remember all Christians are not to do anything that would stop anyone from listening to the truth of God's word. Not fulfilling your duty would be a bad example for even Christians today.
The Bible speaks of all Christians as being slaves to God. Many people do not like the word slave, when it pertains to them, but being a slave to God means being like a son to God, not being harshly treated as by men, but actually being in a favored position.
Remember, the Israelites were slaves to God. If you read about the things that God promised to His slaves, you would love to be in their place. Go to Deuteronomy and read some of chapterts 6-10, where it brings tears to the eyes to hear all the great promises that God made to those who wouls obey Him.
Everyone should pray with all there being to become a slave of God's!!!

Sooner death than slavery..no matter how the enslaver treats it's pets.

Being possessed and reduced to a numerical value by someone is neither holy or godly no matter how the slave is treated.

You and Newhope have really helped the theistic cause there...well done!

 

[Autodidact]

Autodidact,
Being an autididact, doesn't mean that you know much. You really need to get a concordance.
The term SLAVE or SLAVERY, did not mean the same in Bible times as it does today. As for the term mentioned by Paul, when writing to Timothy, 1Tim 6:1-5, Paul was speaking about people who had gotten themselves into debt to someone. Many times they had to become like a slave to repay the debt. Even today economists state that a person becomes a slave to the lender.
Notice how Paul told them to treat their masters good, because they were their brothers, meaning brothers in the faith.
Some were in servitude to unbelievers. Paul wanted them to be good to their masters so that the truth of the word would not be spoken against. Remember all Christians are not to do anything that would stop anyone from listening to the truth of God's word. Not fulfilling your duty would be a bad example for even Christians today.
The Bible speaks of all Christians as being slaves to God. Many people do not like the word slave, when it pertains to them, but being a slave to God means being like a son to God, not being harshly treated as by men, but actually being in a favored position.
Remember, the Israelites were slaves to God. If you read about the things that God promised to His slaves, you would love to be in their place. Go to Deuteronomy and read some of chapterts 6-10, where it brings tears to the eyes to hear all the great promises that God made to those who wouls obey Him.
Everyone should pray with all there being to become a slave of God's!!!

Nope. You're mistaken. There's a reason all the modern translations use the word slave, not servant. You again are talking about the enslavement of Hebrews, which was a modified, semi-bondservant status. I'm talking about the enslavement of foreigners, which was pure chattel-slavery. These people were not in debt--they were captured as booty in war. They and their descendants were then enslaved forever. Read the verse:

“‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

It has nothing to do with bond servitude, and certainly nothing to do with being a slave to God which, while I find disgusting, is irrelevant here.

Do you think this type of pure chattel slavery is right or wrong?

 

[Autodidact]

Well written jtartar. At least in biblical times the poor had some way to survive with dignity. There was also the 7 year thing, where a slave could be released from debt.

You mean Hebrew slaves. Foreigners and their children were slaves for life.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Well written jtartar. At least in biblical times the poor had some way to survive with dignity. There was also the 7 year thing, where a slave could be released from debt.

Hah!

The 7 year thing...so owning people is OK if there is a limited tenure on ownership?

Oh and debtor slaves are no biggie either?

Interesting....

 

[Flankerl]

Yes, I do. What is your point? My point is that you worship and evil god.

Have fun with your discussion.

 

[Autodidact]

Well, it seems that everyone who would justify worshiping a God who permits slavery has left the thread. I wonder why?

 

[Wombat]

"Allegations" prove nothing and ones like this are often made by opponents for their own purposes.

Given that the pedigree of what you posted is unclear, I can't even comment on its truth or falsehood.

But that said, it's my understanding that they owned hired servants, not slaves.

Bruce

That’s right Bruce, that’s why ‘independent investigators of truth’ (central Baha’i principle)research and investigate such allegations to determine the degree of historical veracity. And don’t just turn a blind eye with assumptions that they arise from “opponents for their own purposes”

“The Bab-as was the custom- acquired a young Ethiopian slave. The man was nineteen years old and named Mubarak (meaning blessed). The Bill of purchase, which still exists among the Bab’s business accounts is dated 1842 and indicates the price paid was fourteen tumans (about twenty eight dollars). From ‘Black Pearls’
Abu'l-Qasim Afnan, author of ‘Black Pearls’ was the last custodian of the House of the Bab in Shiraz before the recent revolution in Iran, was born in Shiraz on 19 March 1919 and passed away in England on 22 October 2004.
Now, unless you wish to claim that Abu'l-Qasim Afnan was a Covenant Breaker and “opponent” of Baha’i with his “own purposes” (and as such his every word must be shunned as ‘spiritual poison),... Abu'l-Qasim Afnan remains a credible witness providing Baha’i history.
As is affirmed by Baha’i research and apologetics itself-

http://bahai-library.com/lee_black_pearls_notes
“HAJI MUBARAK
"Records indicate that both sides of the family of the Bab (paternal and maternal), in keeping with their social position and the customs of the time, owned black slaves.”

Given that in relation to >any< serious ‘allegation’ within the Baha’i community there is longstanding and steadfast rejection of all basic principles of Fair Due Process, Investigation and Fair Hearing it is not at all surprising that you “can't even comment on its truth or falsehood.” After all, you and I had the opportunity to investigate such Due Process/Investigative issues....and you weren’t interested.
So...in the context of a Baha’i community culture in which the “pedigree” of any given “allegation” is of zero interest and concern...it’s is disingenuous to be complaining about allegations made against central Baha’i figures.

“My accusers never confronted me;
I came to find out later that the National Spiritual Assembly and other
Administrative bodies had used members of the Local Spiritual Assembly
and the community as "informants". The concept of due process is
foreign in the Baha'i Faith.

My experience as a member of the Baha'i Faith
By Dennis James Rogers