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Question for Jews....

Harmonious

Well-Known Member
Great replies except for the debunkers????? Whoa!

To everyone else, thanks for speaking your minds. Harmonious, I really don't know why race is a factor in the scandals I am mentioning other than to say the heads of each group are devout religious Jews. Maybe that part of their life has ZERO to do with the bad actions they do, I dunno.

I gather had I started a thread specifically about Bernanke, or other people in his stature, and left out the Jewish part all would be well. I still need to think about that, if I am honest about it.
I can't help but feel there is a circle of elitist who are doing awful things to human beings. Specifically to the USA, and I also can't help but feel this group happens to be Jewish. Where one of my problems is, is in deciding if their version of being Jewish is in fact part of the bad things they do. Can you all understand that?
Probably.

But you know... If people are taking it upon themselves to do all of these awful things, I can pretty much promise you that it isn't to "fulfill themselves as Jews."

In their heads, they must have divided themselves into compartments: This is me, being religious, and doing all the things I'm supposed to; and This is me, getting away with whatever I can for my own self-gain.

You know, stealing, embezzling, and other such things are forbidden by Torah law, so any attempt to do such things are certainly NOT for the benefit of Jews, except in their own hearts and minds, if at all.

No religious justification exists. Actually, I would say that whatever "good" they do with the proceeds of their ill-gotten gains are actually counted against them, so they don't even get credit for their bent interpretations of whatever they think they are doing.

So... What they are doing is not good on any plane of existence, and it certainly isn't justified by religion in any way.

So for me it is hard to look at this group I am discussing in this thread and completel separate them from the fact they are Jewish, cause it seems to be part of the reason "they" do what they do.
Well, get over it. It might be hard for you, but that is the truth of the matter.

Guess I'll stop the thread now unless anyone else wants to continue, sorry to make anyone feel bad. Really I am.
Sounds like a capital idea.
 

Debunker

Active Member
Great replies except for the debunkers????? Whoa!

To everyone else, thanks for speaking your minds.

Guess I'll stop the thread now unless anyone else wants to continue, sorry to make anyone feel bad. Really I am.
Don't falsely accuse me of being the only one to question your motives in this thread! I was not as tactful as the others but I did not read anybodies post that did not express doubts about your motives. I apologize if I made you out to be a Jew hater. I did not intend to do that but I did intend to show how you were using this particular stenotype against the Jew. I will try to be more tactful in future discussions. I do admit that God wants me to be subtle like a snake and harmless as a dove. For failure here, I apologies.
 

Numinous

Philosopher
Don't falsely accuse me of being the only one to question your motives in this thread! I was not as tactful as the others but I did not read anybodies post that did not express doubts about your motives. I apologize if I made you out to be a Jew hater. I did not intend to do that but I did intend to show how you were using this particular stenotype against the Jew. I will try to be more tactful in future discussions. I do admit that God wants me to be subtle like a snake and harmless as a dove. For failure here, I apologies.

No problem...
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
This comment alone was worth starting the thread. Thank you.

I guess I need to think about this.

It would seem the race itself doesn't produce ill people, which is your point, and I of course agree, so it seems important to you to make this point very clear. I do not believe or have ever believed, being born a particular race dictates who you become in life or what good or bad you will do.
In fact it is completely irrelevant.
But, if a group that happens to affiliate themselves with a race, does awful things, the race will be mentioned just by incidentals. Which is why I have said numerous times I am not condemning a race but a group within a race that is doing bad things to benefit their race.
You mean like white people stealing the Americas from Indians? And enslaving Africans? So white people should be condemned? So Christians have slaughtered Jews for no reason for centuries, so Christians should be condemned? Or Germans? Or Americans? I haven't seen you starting any threads to condemn those groups.
To me there is a difference. You feel otherwise?
I'm more interested in individual responsibility, and the influence of specific ideas that make people do bad things. It it your contention that there is something about Judaism that causes Jews to do bad things?
Can we address this first before we move on?
Feel free.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Interesting, so are you saying by my mentioning they are Jewish I am condemning the whole race?
Otherwise what's your point?
I don't feel threatened by black people mentioning kkk members are all white, they are condeming all white people?
Haven't seen that post yet. It would be correct to condemn the KKK and racists like you, and wrong to condemn "whiteness."
They are just stating the facts. Not sure why that is a problem.
Haven't seen any facts yet.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Great replies except for the debunkers????? Whoa!

To everyone else, thanks for speaking your minds. Harmonious, I really don't know why race is a factor in the scandals I am mentioning other than to say the heads of each group are devout religious Jews. Maybe that part of their life has ZERO to do with the bad actions they do, I dunno.

I gather had I started a thread specifically about Bernanke, or other people in his stature, and left out the Jewish part all would be well. I still need to think about that, if I am honest about it.
I can't help but feel there is a circle of elitist who are doing awful things to human beings. Specifically to the USA, and I also can't help but feel this group happens to be Jewish. Where one of my problems is, is in deciding if their version of being Jewish is in fact part of the bad things they do. Can you all understand that?

Kind of like bad Muslim extremists who kill themselves and others, very much do those things as a result of their nationality and religious views. Or Christians that blow up buildings, they believe it is their mandate to do such things.

So for me it is hard to look at this group I am discussing in this thread and completel separate them from the fact they are Jewish, cause it seems to be part of the reason "they" do what they do.

Guess I'll stop the thread now unless anyone else wants to continue, sorry to make anyone feel bad. Really I am.

So you're equating being head of the Federal Reserve, a position most people would see as benefiting society, as equivalent to blowing people up? And, in your paranoid bigotry, you think that when Mr. Bernanke makes decisions you disgree with, he does it because he is Jewish?

What makes me feel bad is people who still buy the bigoted mythology about Jews.

How many Jews are Nobel prize winners, Numinous? Does this lead you to conclude that there is something about being Jewish that leads us to make extraordinary contributions to the good of mankind? Why not?
 

Numinous

Philosopher
Otherwise what's your point?
Haven't seen that post yet. It would be correct to condemn the KKK and racists like you, and wrong to condemn "whiteness." Haven't seen any facts yet.

I'm not a racists. I understand your hostility though. I admit I was ignorant on how I thought about this subject. I would do better to judge individuals, and I see that now. It was never an internal drive to blanket a race.

I can admit growth, whether you care or not.
 

Numinous

Philosopher
So you're equating being head of the Federal Reserve, a position most people would see as benefiting society, as equivalent to blowing people up? And, in your paranoid bigotry, you think that when Mr. Bernanke makes decisions you disgree with, he does it because he is Jewish?

What makes me feel bad is people who still buy the bigoted mythology about Jews.

How many Jews are Nobel prize winners, Numinous? Does this lead you to conclude that there is something about being Jewish that leads us to make extraordinary contributions to the good of mankind? Why not?
See my last post. I am capable of growing to be a better person.

Thanks...

As stated before I hate no race or people. I had some growing to do, and you all were instrumental in helping me see my ignorance. As stated it is individuals rather than groups. Thanks again.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I'm not a racists.
Yes, you are.
I understand your hostility though. I admit I was ignorant on how I thought about this subject. I would do better to judge individuals, and I see that now. It was never an internal drive to blanket a race.

I can admit growth, whether you care or not.
Great, then the thread has been a success.
 

Numinous

Philosopher
Yes, you are. Great, then the thread has been a success.

Yikes! I'm still a racist? :(

You really helped me to distinguish between someone's actions, and what race or religion they happen to be. Even if religion or race is a factor, I should still ignore it and focus on the individual as a whole.

Anyway, I guess once a racist in your mind always a racist?
Little sad, but your perogative...
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Well, if you are now a former racist, good on you. Your posting pattern in future will tell us.:foryou:
 

Numinous

Philosopher
Well, if you are now a former racist, good on you. Your posting pattern in future will tell us.:foryou:
I'll say the following. This Jew thing I have been going on about is really the only incident I can think of where I was mixing race, individuals, and scandals. Came from ignorance and i feel a bit liberated now.
As an American Indian, I certainly appreciate understaning my errors in regard to these topics.
Thanks for the flowers...
 

israelite32

israelite32
true ISRAELITES are not rich because we are spiritual people rather than material people! the "jews" you are talking about dont practice Torah. they are people who worship money instead of G-D! get your facts straight before pointing fingers. why worry about material goods anyway because Y-W-Y wont let you take it with you? its all on loan from G-D. SHALOM
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Do you feel the race of a person is never a factor in negative or positive things they do?
The Jewish race, society, culture, or however one wishes to define it has always, today and throughout history been composed out of exceptional individuals. influential figures, revolutionaries in politics, thought, science and religion.
some Jews use their influence to empower their interests, and lobby for the political and economic reality they desire to manifest. some Jews use their power to promote completely opposing political interests (perhaps exceptional individuals such as Daniel Ellsberg and Noam Chomsky). some Jews have been known to be compassionate such as Jesus, other Jews disagreed with Jesus' political agenda and worked against it, such as Judas Iscariot.
Many Jews throughout the west have seemed to outgrow the notion of their race and considered themselves European first, for example the Jews of Germany had the highest percentage of service in the German military during the first world war, these are people who considered themselves Germans first, and later Jewish, they fought for their fatherland, Germany. many of them were decorated for their bravery and sacrifice.
I believe the Turks and the Greeks have a saying, that you can measure patriotism by the Jews in your nation. it will be a Jewish soldier who will fire the first shot in the war, and it would be another Jew from the opposing army who would wave the flag of his country on conquered land when the war is over.
Some Jews made great contribution to science, such as Einstein and Carl Sagan. some made great contribution to religious thought in the modern world, such as Baruch Spinoza. some Jews in history have chose to do a great service to their nation and serve as Prime minister, such as British Prime minister Benjamin Disraeli, others in the same time chose to fight for the rights of classes outside their own, like Karl Marx.
some Jews are liberal, some are conservative, some are religious, others are secular, some are leftist, and some are leaning to the right.
some Jews are exceptional musicians, such as Leonard Cohen, and Bob Dylan.
Some have been exceptional military leaders, others have led a life time of promoting human rights. some are North American and might be rich, others are Oriental and may lead a financially modest life.
if you can paint a portrait of the Jewish soul or mind from all these individuals, their ideas, and their way of thinking, it would be interesting to hear what it is that you were able to illustrate.
 
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Rakhel

Well-Known Member
I point back to a signature I had last week
“What one Christian does is his own responsibility, what one Jew does is thrown back at all Jews” Anne Frank
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
I'm confused, has anyone pointed out yet that the Jews are not a race?

I know black Jews, white Jews, and I'm a hispanic Jew. So what?
 

Onkara

Well-Known Member
I'm confused, has anyone pointed out yet that the Jews are not a race?

I know black Jews, white Jews, and I'm a hispanic Jew. So what?

Good point. There is a long article on this on wikipedia Who is a Jew? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please can I ask a different question. What is the minimum or basics that a person must "do" to consider themselves as following the Jewish religion correctly?
 
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israelite32

israelite32
when the real Messiah comes, builds the 3rd temple, gathers all ISRAELITES(true believers) back to Israel, ushers in an era of peace, reveals G-Ds true name and destroys evil we will find out who the true ISRAELITES are! stop lumping people into groups because we are all responsible for our own souls in the end! my guess is there will be a few people from many different "religions" that are true believers? "jew" is a term that popped up out of nowhere after the time of Moses so theres really no such thing! we all need to worry about ourselves instead of judging each other anyway. SHALOM
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
when the real Messiah comes, builds the 3rd temple, gathers all ISRAELITES(true believers) back to Israel, ushers in an era of peace, reveals G-Ds true name and destroys evil we will find out who the true ISRAELITES are! stop lumping people into groups because we are all responsible for our own souls in the end! my guess is there will be a few people from many different "religions" that are true believers? "jew" is a term that popped up out of nowhere after the time of Moses so theres really no such thing! we all need to worry about ourselves instead of judging each other anyway. SHALOM
Hello 'israelite32', Im curious, what other words do you have in your Hebrew vocabulary other than 'Shalom'?
 
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