Question for luciferians and the like

[ChristineM]

I can't deny that Satanism developed over time, but denying that Satanism come out of Judaism and Christianity is denial of truth.

@RayofLight No I didn't read any books but I suspect these books may distract from the origins of Satanism, at least so it seems according to your responses so far.

Satan like characters were part of religion long before christianity was even thought of, and before Enoch picked up a pen. For example Ahriman in Zoroastrianism and Apopis in Ancient Egyptian religion, Hades in ancient Greece, Pluto in ancient Rome All Christianity can claim are the names, Satan, Lucifer etc.

Even the vision of Satan's domain was not a thing until the 13/14 centuries with the works of Hieronymus Bosch and Dante Alighieri.

 

[VoidCat]

Satan like characters were part of religion long before christianity was even thought of, and before Enoch picked up a pen. For example Ahriman in Zoroastrianism and Apopis in Ancient Egyptian religion, Hades in ancient Greece, Pluto in ancient Rome All Christianity can claim are the names, Satan, Lucifer etc.

Even the vision of Satan's domain was not a thing until the 13/14 centuries with the works of Hieronymus Bosch and Dante Alighieri.

This.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I'm not saying I understand, what I'm saying is that I know it's origin.
My interest is what I asked in the OP.


Interpretations have always been problem.
I believe Satan exists and I know Satan is capable to deceive therefore also able to offer false interpretations.


Indeed, I already said I don't doubt in development of Satanism, but what's the point of denial of the origin of Satan?

If one doesn't believe that God/Elohim/Jahweh/whatever didn't create the universe and humans and angels and the Satan, it would be silly to expect that those who follow Satan/Lucifer/whatever would consider Satan/Lucifer/whatever to have been created by and be a fallen angel of the Abrahamic creator god.

So they borrowed the word? So what?

 

[VoidCat]

Indeed, I already said I don't doubt in development of Satanism, but what's the point of denial of the origin of Satan?

We don't deny abrahamics have a view of Satan and some take ideas from abrahamic.

Our interpretations of Satan whatever Satan we speak of give our life meaning and is important to us. Like @ChristineM said there are many beings that are like Satan in many religions. Not just abrahamic ones. Set from egyptian mythology is one example.

 

[VoidCat]

If one doesn't believe that God/Elohim/Jahweh/whatever didn't create the universe and humans and angels and the Satan, it would be silly to expect that those who follow Satan/Lucifer/whatever would consider Satan/Lucifer/whatever to have been created by and be a fallen angel of the Abrahamic creator god.

So they borrowed the word? So what?

Exactly. Satan in satanism is not the same as in abrahamic religions.

@paradox

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. Why don't you ask me about my beliefs as a Demonolatrist regarding Satan? It's not representive of all left handed practitioners in fact my views may be in the minority but I could explain my beliefs and you could get a general idea of what I believe and how someone following a Left handed path could have such different beliefs from abrahamic.

 

[paradox]

Satan like characters were part of religion long before christianity was even thought of, and before Enoch picked up a pen.

hah, "Satan like characters" yes, but not Satan, my question is about Satan.

We don't deny abrahamics have a view of Satan and some take ideas from abrahamic.

Then that's a problem because I don't believe Satan's kingdom is divided.

If one doesn't believe that God/Elohim/Jahweh/whatever didn't create the universe and humans and angels and the Satan, it

I believe Satan exists, but I don't believe any real alternative to Satan exist.

 

[VoidCat]

Then that's a problem because I don't believe Satan's kingdom is divided

What kingdom? I said nothing about a kingdom cuz I don't believe Satan to have a kingdom.

 

[VoidCat]

hah, "Satan like characters" yes, but not Satan, my question is about Satan.

You know some of those Satan like characters are what theistic Satanists call Satan? They just use the name Satan to describe an archtype cuz it's the most well known name

 

[paradox]

You know some of those satan like characters are what theistic Satanists call Satan?

I wonder why?

Isn't that made up deity then?

 

[VoidCat]

@paradox
Question. Are you able to put aside your beliefs enough to take a look at satanism and luciferianism objectively and be educated on it even if you don't agree? Be honest here. If not that's fine. Just let me know so I can stop this conversation.

 

[ChristineM]

hah, "Satan like characters" yes, but not Satan, my question is about Satan.


Then that's a problem because I don't believe Satan's kingdom is divided.


I believe Satan exists, but I don't believe any real alternative to Satan exist.

What's in a name? a renamed copied character. Hah right back at ya

 

[VoidCat]

I wonder why?

Isn't that made up deity then?

No it's not. It's a way of viewing archetypes as a deity

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

hah, "Satan like characters" yes, but not Satan, my question is about Satan.


Then that's a problem because I don't believe Satan's kingdom is divided.


I believe Satan exists, but I don't believe any real alternative to Satan exist.

But the Satan you believe in IS NOT THE SAME as the Satan that others believe in. You're not understanding because you're trying to fit other's beliefs into YOUR terms, and it just doesn't work. Try accepting that regardless of linguistic origins, there is more than one meaning for the word in use today.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The Satan believers i know also believe in the Abrahamic god, but think of god as the bad guy.

Example

But as @RayofLight said, there are different satans and there are different beliefs

As an ex-Christian, I agree with the chart you posted, Christine. I've read the Bible from cover to cover many times, and I'm thoroughly convinced that God is most definitely the bad guy, not Satan. I was a Christian for 30 years, but I'm a Wiccan and a spiritualist now.

 

[paradox]

@paradox
Question. Can you put aside your beliefs enough to take a look at satanism and luciferianism objectively and be educated on it even if you don't agree? Be honest here. If not that's fine. Just let me know so I can stop this conversation.

go ahead.

No it's not. It's a way of viewing archetypes as a deity

"archetypes as a deity" therefore not honestly believing it exists, no?

But the Satan you believe in IS NOT THE SAME as the Satan that others believe in.

Not true because Satan which I believe exists has many faces and is able to transform itself.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

go ahead.


"archetypes as a deity" therefore not honestly believing it exists, no?


Not true because Satan which I believe exists has many faces and is able to transform itself.

again:

"...Satan which I believe..." IS NOT THE SATAN that others believe.

If you really don't want to understand what other believe, why did you make this thread?

 

[VoidCat]

archetypes as a deity" therefore not honestly believing it exists, no

No the deity still exists depending on interpetation

 

[VoidCat]

Not true because Satan which I believe exists has many faces and is able to transform itself

You know what? I give up

 

[paradox]

"...Satan which I believe..." IS NOT THE SATAN that others believe.

If you really don't want to understand what other believe, why did you make this thread?

listening to what others believe doesn't mean changing my belief, don't you think so?

 

[VoidCat]

listening to what others believe doesn't mean changing my belief, don't you think so?

Of course. I'd never attempt to convert you to satanism or luciferianism. But my beliefs are vastly different from yours