Question for luciferians and the like

[Sgt. Pepper]

Exactly. Satan in satanism is not the same as in abrahamic religions.

@paradox

You seem to be making a lot of assumptions. Why don't you ask me about my beliefs as a Demonolatrist regarding Satan? It's not representive of all left handed practitioners in fact my views may be in the minority but I could explain my beliefs and you could get a general idea of what I believe and how someone following a Left handed path could have such different beliefs from abrahamic.

I'm sure left-handed religions aren't as diverse and divided as Christianity is. In Christianity, there are Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopal, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), Messianic Judaism, and Protestants.

Furthermore, within Protestantism, there are Baptists (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodists, Nazarene, Lutheran, Mennonites, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God, Apostolic Church, Pentecostals, Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, United Methodist, Presbyterians, Quakers, and literally hundreds of other Protestant and non-Protestant churches. And all these Christians believe that they're right in their theology (bible interpretation, dogma, doctrines) and other Christians are dead wrong in theirs.

For example, Protestants believe that they're correct in their interpretation of the Bible, and this is in spite of the fact that there are hundreds of Protestant denominations (including churches that split from other churches) in the United States alone. Catholics believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only "true church," and Protestants aren't saved on account of their protestant beliefs. Salvation only comes through Christ and through his Catholic Church (source). On the other hand, there are Protestants who don't think that Catholics are true Christians. There are also Orthodox Christians, Mormons, and JWs to consider in this whole ordeal.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

I'm not conversant on the religion itself, but from my personal experience I think that like many religions it varies a great deal. The Satanists I've known (distant family) and known of (through documented, i.e. video of personal testimony) Satanism isn't about theism per se. It isn't a belief in any Biblical angel or even mythological variation (Book of Enoch, for example) but rather merely an expression of self empowerment. Anton LeVey, who popularized the movement, was a performer more than anything. His motivation was monetary but his philosophy was adversarial. The ancient Hebrew word satan literally means "resister; adversary." So the first time the word is used in the Bible it is applied to a righteous angel who stood as an adversary in resistance to Balaam. A brief aside, Balaam's *** didn't speak, the angel spoke with the voice of a man. (Numbers 22:22, Numbers 22:28; 2 Peter 2:16) Just as the angel who later was known as Satan used the serpent to deceive Eve. (1 Timothy 2:14) The word satan is applied to many men as well, who acted in an adversarial manner. (1 Samuel 29:4; 2 Samuel 19:21-22; 1 Kings 5:4; 1 Kings 11:14-25)

It's the same with the word god in the Bible. The Hebrew el can mean any god, but when it appears with the definite article ha it means The God, In a similar way the contraction of the Arabic al-Ilāh is "the God" from which comes Allāh. The Hebrew satan with the definite article means the chief adversary of God. Likewise the word devil means slanderer and liar.

Lucifer, on the other hand, interestingly enough, isn't applied to Satan. Lucifer is a Latin word meaning light bearer. Luciferase, for example, is "an enzyme that catalyzes the oxidation of a luciferin, causing it to produce a visible glow. 'the light-producing material in a glow-worm's body is oxidized and broken down, with the aid of an enzyme called luciferase.'" (Oxford) Think lightning bug and Bill Gates' vaccine tattoo.

The Latin Vulgate translated the Hebrew word into the Latin lucifer at Isaiah 14:12. Go back to Isaiah 14:4 and it is clearly in reference to Nebuchadnezzar specifically as then representative of the Babylonian dynasty. Bibles based on the Vulgate, like the KJV use Lucifer. (Compare translations of Isaiah 14:12 here) Note: the Hebrew is hehlel; shinning one, and the Greek ho heosphoros; daystar, morning star. People who preceded a figurative new day. Jesus, for example, is given the same term. (2 Peter 1:19)

 

[paradox]

Of course. I'd never attempt to convert you to satanism or luciferianism. But my beliefs are vastly different from yours

Seems like problem is that Satan which I believe eats Satan with you believe for breakfast.

I eat Green Berets for breakfast - Bing video

 

[VoidCat]

I'm sure left-handed religions aren't as diverse and divided as Christianity is. In Christianity, there are Catholics, Anglicans, Episcopal, Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox), Messianic Judaism, and Protestants.

Furthermore, within Protestantism, there are Baptists (First Baptist, Second Baptist, Southern Baptist, Reformed Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Anabaptist, Freewill Baptist), Methodists, Nazarene, Lutheran, Mennonites, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God, Apostolic Church, Pentecostals, Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of the Nazarene, United Methodist, Presbyterians, Quakers, and literally hundreds of other Protestant and non-Protestant churches. And all these Christians believe that they're right in their theology (bible interpretation, dogma, doctrines) and other Christians are dead wrong in theirs.

For example, Protestants believe that they're correct in their interpretation of the bible, and this is in spite of the fact that there are hundreds of Protestant denominations (including churches that split from another church) in the United States alone. Catholics believe that the Roman Catholic Church is the one and only "true church," and Protestants aren't saved on account of their protestant beliefs, and salvation only comes by Christ and through his Catholic Church (source). On the other hand, there are Protestants who don't think that Catholics are true Christians. There's also Orthodox Christians, Mormons, and JWs to consider in this whole ordeal.

Give it a few centuries. Satanism and luciferianism hasn't been around long enough. Individuality is the core of left handed paths. It is a required feature.

 

[VoidCat]

Seems like problem is that Satan which I believe eats Satan with you believe for breakfast.

I eat Green Berets for breakfast - Bing video

????
Now I definitely don't wish to converse with you on my beliefs

 

[JDMS]

go ahead.


"archetypes as a deity" therefore not honestly believing it exists, no?


Not true because Satan which I believe exists has many faces and is able to transform itself.

You don't get to decide what other people believe. You can argue, throw a fit and pour ashes on your head all you want, but that doesn't change what other people believe. Absolutely no one is trying to proselytize to you about their version of Satan, they are just trying to help you understand other points of view about the question you ASKED. Just because you don't think the answer makes sense doesn't mean you can magically change what they think.

If you wanted a debate about the origin, meaning and significance of Satan than you should've made a thread for that. But no, you asked what luciferians believed.

Man I wasn't going to say anything at first but this whole interaction was painful to read.

 

[JustGeorge]

I met a woman in a bookstore once who, based on the book section we were both in, started conversing with me. It appeared we had a common interest in world religion. She said she'd like to continue talking later, and she had a book to send me. She'd set up a time to talk then. I gave her my address, and said I'd look forward to hearing from her.

I did receive a book in the mail. A book that explained in great detail, what each of the world' populous religions were, and even many of the not as populous ones, and how they were all the work of the devil. There was also a handwritten note, inviting me to contact her so we could discuss saving my soul.

This conversation seems kind of like that. Lets fool LHP folks into joining this conversation, so we can trap 'em in here with fake interest, and then tell 'em how they're all wrong and try to get 'em to 'Yahweh'!

 

[paradox]

You don't get to decide what other people believe. You can argue, throw a fit and pour ashes on your head all you want, but that doesn't change what other people believe. Absolutely no one is trying to proselytize to you about their version of Satan, they are just trying to help you understand other points of view about the question you ASKED. Just because you don't think the answer makes sense doesn't mean you can magically change what they think.

Man I wasn't going to say anything at first but this whole interaction was painful to read.

My question is about biblical Satan.
honestly I didn't know that worshiping Satan takes the form of believing in something that is not Satan.

 

[VoidCat]

I met a woman in a bookstore once who, based on the book section we were both in, started conversing with me. It appeared we had a common interest in world religion. She said she'd like to continue talking later, and she had a book to send me. She'd set up a time to talk then. I gave her my address, and said I'd look forward to hearing from her.

I did receive a book in the mail. A book that explained in great detail, what each of the world' populous religions were, and even many of the not as populous ones, and how they were all the work of the devil. There was also a handwritten note, inviting me to contact her so we could discuss saving my soul.

This conversation seems kind of like that. Lets fool LHP folks into joining this conversation, so we can trap 'em in here with fake interest, and then tell 'em how they're all wrong and try to get 'em to 'Yahweh'!

Oh yes. That's what this seems like to me as well.

 

[JustGeorge]

Oh yes. That's what this seems like to me as well.

Its such a letdown!

 

[paradox]

Lets fool LHP folks into joining this conversation, so we can trap 'em in here with fake interest, and then tell 'em how they're all wrong and try to get 'em to 'Yahweh'!

this is your conclusion, my attempt is not to convert anyone here.
the issue is that we don't agree on who is Satan, which is kind of odd.

 

[ChristineM]

Seems like problem is that Satan which I believe eats Satan with you believe for breakfast.

I eat Green Berets for breakfast - Bing video

My satan is better than your satan nah, nah

 

[VoidCat]

this is your conclusion, my attempt is not to convert anyone here.
the issue is that we don't agree on who is Satan, which is kind of odd.

Well did you expect us to have the exact same beliefs? When we follow different religions?

 

[paradox]

My satan is better than your satan nah, nah

I'm glad you get it.
Obviously my Satan is way too evil for anyone to admit to be worshiping it.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Give it a few centuries. Satanism and luciferianism hasn't been around long enough. Individuality is the core of left handed paths. It is a required feature.

The underlining point of my post was that most Christians love to insist that Christianity is the only true religion in the world, but they can't even agree with each other on Bible interpretation, whether someone's eternal salvation is conditional or not, whether baptism is a requirement of salvation or not, and how a person should be properly baptized. And the list of their divisions and dissension goes on. I think it's truly ironic that Christians want other people to accept Christianity as the only true religion when they can't even decide among themselves which Christian doctrines and dogmas are right and what the Bible actually teaches about different subjects.

 

[paradox]

Well did you expect us to have the exact same beliefs?

I didn't expect that, as I said I didn't know you have your own version of a Satan.

 

[VoidCat]

I didn't expect that, as I said I didn't know you have your own version of a Satan.

Fair.

 

[JustGeorge]

this is your conclusion, my attempt is not to convert anyone here.
the issue is that we don't agree on who is Satan, which is kind of odd.

Maybe not convert, but explain that you believe they're wrong, and why they're wrong, and all their mistakes, etc, etc.

My morning brain is often not real sharp, but I don't seem to be the only one picking up these conclusions.

If you really want to learn about Satanism/Luciferianism, might I suggest leaning back and listening while the LHP folks share their paths with you? Just listen. Don't judge, or try to hammer it into your own worldview(even though that's difficult for any of us at times).

My question is about biblical Satan.
honestly I didn't know that worshiping Satan takes the form of believing in something that is not Satan.

Something that you don't believe is Satan, you mean.

 

[VoidCat]

@paradox
Maybe we started on the wrong foot.
Just keep in mind if you want to understand satanism and luciferianism you got to push aside abrahamic bias.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

listening to what others believe doesn't mean changing my belief, don't you think so?

Not at all...but UNDERSTANDING does require you to allow others their beliefs...to hear what they actually say, and not to try to force it into your preexisting beliefs...

You seem to be unwilling to try to understand what others are saying about their beliefs, so I'll stop trying to explain it to you now. It's very clear what has been said to you; it's up to you to hear it.

And it does not require you to change what you believe...