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Question for Monotheists
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Nice post. I had something to say about miscarriages, But do you really want me to open up that can of worms again?
This thread is a can of worms.Nice post. I had something to say about miscarriages, But do you really want me to open up that can of worms again?
Spiderman
Veteran Member
It could get much worse
Spiderman
Veteran Member
Well said!
kiwimac
Brother Napalm of God's Love
In the OT no such belief is held. The Jewish sages refer to a foetus becoming a person at first breath reminding us that it was so with Adam and Eve. The teaching of ensoulment at conception is a uniquely Christian belief held, until recently, by only a few Christian denominations. It has become more wide spread a belief since the 1970s. Certainly Zoroastrianism does not accept an "at conception ensoulment."
Of course, the OT authors didn't really even know where babies come from either. They understood little about human reproduction, they knew nothing about gametes and such.
Tom
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
I view “soul” and “spirit” as separate parts of a life. For me, the soul is related to the mind and/or personality in combination with the body, therefore a form belonging to this world and a one time deal; whereas the spirit is our God image and therefore an infinite, eternal form. I see spirit as force/energy/light/whatever and being continuously renewed in a different combination of soul and body over and over. Yep, reincarnation; or perhaps resurrection?
So, human at conception . . . sure, it's a worldly concept.
Hindu perspectives differ depending on the individual. Generally it's pretty much like pro life Christianity
Bit late to worry about a can of worms nowNice post. I had something to say about miscarriages, But do you really want me to open up that can of worms again?
Are all of us Monotheists united in the "simple-minded" belief that God forms a human being in the womb at conception with an immortal soul? Meaning, in the eyes of God, it is a human being at conception?
PLEASE do not turn this into a debate about pro-life pro-choice views!! That isn't my intention. I've started enough of those ugly threads. My only intention here is to find out if Monotheists (Christians, Muslims, Jews, other) are all in agreement, that in God's eyes a human being is a human being at conception. Please let's keep it there. Thanks!
a vehicle requires an operator, or driver. without a driver its not a functioning automobile. like another poster's adj, it's a potential automobile when not mobile. it is an actual vehicle when mobile.
for it to become fully human, it must be self-sustaining. meaning it must breath on its own volition and have a heart beat.
meister eckhart, rumi, jesus, and a host of others would disagree with you
in medical lingo those are called spontaneous abortions
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
I am of the opinion that the soul is the fundamental element of life from God within us.
I find it hard to envision that that would come about at any other time than conception.
However that new potential life does not enter into full humanity, and independent life, until it is born.
Most potential life is extinguished between conception and birth. This failure to come to term is more the norm, than is a Live Birth. Most females are unaware that they have even been pregnant, as it mostly happens in the first few hours or days after conception...
Such souls can only return to God, they never have been born human.
While the Church of England does not charge for still born or infant funerals, most stillborns are cremated by the hospitals and the ashes scattered communally.
I find it hard to envision that that would come about at any other time than conception.
However that new potential life does not enter into full humanity, and independent life, until it is born.
Most potential life is extinguished between conception and birth. This failure to come to term is more the norm, than is a Live Birth. Most females are unaware that they have even been pregnant, as it mostly happens in the first few hours or days after conception...
Such souls can only return to God, they never have been born human.
While the Church of England does not charge for still born or infant funerals, most stillborns are cremated by the hospitals and the ashes scattered communally.
Arrogant egocentric claims aside I believe Jesus denied having the knowledge of the Father (God) in several places, for example:
Mark 13:32 - However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.
one cannot know all that the absolute knows but one can know enough about self to know something about God. what are you within yourself? what are you within that is outside of self. can god only go so far then he is limited and separated from her Absoluteness?
"He who knows himself knows God,"[1] and, as it is Written in the Koran
we see the same idea being conveyed in Luke
Luke 11:52
“Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”
I thought so too.
dfnj
Well-Known Member
Using the word "conception" is begging for the debate. However, to abide by your wishes and give you a different take. What it means to be a human being already existed before conception. Nothing new is being created. We are all the same in the sense we share the same humanity. So in the eyes of God I don't think it matters. We are all the same in the eyes of God.