Question for Muslims

[Just_me_Mike]

In reading about Islam lately, I found it said often Mohamed was spoken of in the bible. One of the popular reason is the use of the word Comforter.

However when we read about the Comforter in the bible we see it often related to and speaking about the Holy Ghost, and not a person.

I would like to hear from you, how you make sense of this situation.

Thanks.

 

[Fatihah]

In reading about Islam lately, I found it said often Mohamed was spoken of in the bible. One of the popular reason is the use of the word Comforter.

However when we read about the Comforter in the bible we see it often related to and speaking about the Holy Ghost, and not a person.

I would like to hear from you, how you make sense of this situation.

Thanks.

Response: Muhammad(pbuh) is referred to several times in the bible. The verses in question are several. For starters, in John 16:7, we read:

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you: but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

Here, the coming of the comforter is conditional. That condition being that Jesus must go away. That being said, it can not be the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost was already there and was even there when Jesus was born.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Here, the coming of the comforter is conditional. That condition being that Jesus must go away. That being said, it can not be the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost was already there and was even there when Jesus was born.

I understand but the book of Acts tells a different story, that the Holy Ghost was the one who came and did all the wonderful things in the Book of Acts.

Also in John Ch 14:

"26": But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Fatihah]

I understand but the book of Acts tells a different story, that the Holy Ghost was the one who came and did all the wonderful things in the Book of Acts.

Also in John Ch 14:

Response: True. But then this only shows one of the many contridicts in the bible itself. In John 14:26 it says the Holy Ghost as the comforter but in John 16:7 we read that the comforter will come when Jesus leaves. Yet we can clearly see in the bible that the Holy Ghost was there already. So since the verses contridict each other, one can not say for sureity that it is the Holy Ghost.

Furthermore, we read a little further in verse 12-14,

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, (that) shall he speak; and he shall shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew (it) unto you."

Above we read 9 times the masculine pronoun "he", which ill befits a spirit or ghost. When a person says "he", it befits a male person. Now notice above where Jesus says that he has "many" things to say but ye can not bear them now. He also concludes that the spirit of truth will guide you into "all" truths.

"Many" means more than one. "All" means more than one.

So if the comforter, or Spirit of Truth is the Holy Ghost, than kindly mention to us just "one" new thing or just "one" new law or commandment which the Holy Ghost has brought to humankind to teach us since Jesus left? Just "one" new law. Surely, if you can not, than the comforter can not be the Holy Spirit.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Response: True. But then this only shows one of the many contridicts in the bible itself.

If you concede that the Bible contradicts itself, then why do you appeal to logical consistency when interpreting John 14 and 16?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Response: True. But then this only shows one of the many contridicts in the bible itself. In John 14:26 it says the Holy Ghost as the comforter but in John 16:7 we read that the comforter will come when Jesus leaves. Yet we can clearly see in the bible that the Holy Ghost was there already. So since the verses contridict each other, one can not say for sureity that it is the Holy Ghost.

Furthermore, we read a little further in verse 12-14,

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, (that) shall he speak; and he shall shew you things to come.

He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew (it) unto you."

Above we read 9 times the masculine pronoun "he", which ill befits a spirit or ghost. When a person says "he", it befits a male person. Now notice above where Jesus says that he has "many" things to say but ye can not bear them now. He also concludes that the spirit of truth will guide you into "all" truths.

"Many" means more than one. "All" means more than one.

So if the comforter, or Spirit of Truth is the Holy Ghost, than kindly mention to us just "one" new thing or just "one" new law or commandment which the Holy Ghost has brought to humankind to teach us since Jesus left? Just "one" new law. Surely, if you can not, than the comforter can not be the Holy Spirit.

This is why I posted the topic, so I could learn how you think. I am not judging you, so no worries.
Thank you for the responses.

 

[Fatihah]

If you concede that the Bible contradicts itself, then why do you appeal to logical consistency when interpreting John 14 and 16?

Response: Because the qur'an itself is the untampered word of Allah which confirms all truth. So from the qur'an and the words of the prophet, we can conclude the true message of those verses.

 

[Fatihah]

This is why I posted the topic, so I could learn how you think. I am not judging you, so no worries.
Thank you for the responses.

Response: You're very welcome.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Response: Because the qur'an itself is the untampered word of Allah which confirms all truth. So from the qur'an and the words of the prophet, we can conclude the true message of those verses.

Why interpret the Bible at all, then? Why not just say that the Bible is corrupted, the Qur'an is untampered, and leave it at that? Why the need to support the Qur'an with the Bible?

If you use the Qur'an as the basis for interpretation of the Bible, then you aren't really saying that the Bible supports the Qur'an, you're saying that the Qur'an supports the Qur'an.

Basically, you're down to this idea that when the Bible is interpreted in a way that is consistent with the Qur'an, the Bible is consistent with the Qur'an. That may be true, but it's not exactly an Earth-shattering revelation.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE 9-10ths_Penguin]Why interpret the Bible at all, then? Why not just say that the Bible is corrupted, the Qur'an is untampered, and leave it at that? Why the need to support the Qur'an with the Bible?(End Quote)

Response: For the same reasons why a person does not stick to studying one profession or study one kind of philosophy. It is quite natural for a person to want to expand their knowledge.

It is also the duty of all muslims to teach islam to others. So if I can show a person from their own scriptures about islam, the message will get to them much better.

(Quote 9-10ths Penguin)
If you use the Qur'an as the basis for interpretation of the Bible, then you aren't really saying that the Bible supports the Qur'an, you're saying that the Qur'an supports the Qur'an.

Basically, you're down to this idea that when the Bible is interpreted in a way that is consistent with the Qur'an, the Bible is consistent with the Qur'an. That may be true, but it's not exactly an Earth-shattering revelation.(End Quote)

Response: To you this may not be the case, but to others it indeed is.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think that this pretty much clears things up,i have used Youngs literal translation from John 14-17

the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.

Its pretty clear that this isn't Muhammed.

 

[Fatihah]

I think that this pretty much clears things up,i have used Youngs literal translation from John 14-17

the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.

Its pretty clear that this isn't Muhammed.

Response: Yes.... from this particular translation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is also the duty of all muslims to teach islam to others. So if I can show a person from their own scriptures about islam, the message will get to them much better.

But their scriptures say that the "Comfortor" is the Holy Spirit. You haven't shown anyone that the Bible teaches about Islam, you've merely asserted that the Bible is wrong.

Response: To you this may not be the case, but to others it indeed is.

I'm not sure you got my point. It's just as valid to say that when the Bible is interpreted consistently with the Book of Mormon, the Bible is consistent with the Book of Mormon... or that when the Bible is interpreted consistently with Zoroastrian scriptures, the Bible is constistent with Zoroastrian scriptures... or even that when the Bible is interpreted consistently with Moby Dick, the Bible is consistent with Moby Dick.

In mathematical terms, if "A given B" is true, then B is true. There's nothing surprising or informative in this.

 

[Wookiemonster]

In mathematical terms, if "A given B" is true, then B is true. There's nothing surprising or informative in this.

I almost went crazy trying to help my husband study for his final exam in his Logic class. Thanks for bringing back bad memories.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Yes.... from this particular translation.

Which translation would you like,the is very little variation in any of them

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE 9-10ths_Penguin]But their scriptures say that the "Comfortor" is the Holy Spirit. You haven't shown anyone that the Bible teaches about Islam, you've merely asserted that the Bible is wrong.(End Quote)

Response: Nor was I trying to do so. I am simply asking the OP as to why the muslims see the Comforter as Muhammad (pbuh).

(Quote 9-10ths Penguin)
I'm not sure you got my point. It's just as valid to say that when the Bible is interpreted consistently with the Book of Mormon, the Bible is consistent with the Book of Mormon... or that when the Bible is interpreted consistently with Zoroastrian scriptures, the Bible is constistent with Zoroastrian scriptures... or even that when the Bible is interpreted consistently with Moby Dick, the Bible is consistent with Moby Dick.

In mathematical terms, if "A given B" is true, then B is true. There's nothing surprising or informative in this.[/QUOTE]

Response: It seems you've missed mine. What you find not surprising or informative might be so to others.

 

[Fatihah]

Which translation would you like,the is very little variation in any of them

Response: The KJV doesn't say that.

 

[England my lionheart]

New International Version (©1984)
the the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
International Standard Version (©2008)
He is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor recognizes him. But you recognize him, because he lives with you and will be in you. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn't see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you. King James Bible
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Its clear that we are not talking Human being here,i would be interested to see how anyone can make a case for the subject being Muhammed,i just hope that its not as ludicrous as Muhammed in the song of Soloman

 

[Fatihah]

New International Version (©1984)
the the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
International Standard Version (©2008)
He is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor recognizes him. But you recognize him, because he lives with you and will be in you. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn't see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you. King James Bible
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Its clear that we are not talking Human being here,i would be interested to see how anyone can make a case for the subject being Muhammed,i just hope that its not as ludicrous as Muhammed in the song of Soloman

Response: Exactly what verses are you quoting?

 

[England my lionheart]

Basically the only words that are pertinent are "yet ye know him;for he dwelleth with you,and shall be in you"