Question for Non-Dualist

[Contemplative Cat]

Advaita led to the understanding of a universal energy, which is the basis of Kashmir shaivism the "pure advaita"
It is the same as advaita but the world is made out of consciousness(cit shakti/ conscious-energy), rather than being wholly an illusion.
It is often considered tantrik advaita & is the most popular form of Hindu philosophy in the west as of date.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

Advaita led to the understanding of a universal energy, which is the basis of Kashmir shaivism the "pure advaita"
It is the same as advaita but the world is made out of consciousness(cit shakti/ conscious-energy), rather than being wholly an illusion.
It is often considered tantrik advaita & is the most popular form of Hindu philosophy in the west as of date.

I kind of expected you had kashmIr shaiva leanings, kind of obvious from its teachings...

 

[psychoslice]

Physical energy because I find nothing else to be present anywhere in the universe. Consciousness is limited to a brain and a mind. IMV, it has no presence beyond that.

Yes how I see it also.

 

[Ravi500]

I consider Einstein, Planck, Bohr, Heisenberg, Darwin, Born, Hawking, Mandel, Maxwell, Rutherford, James Watson, etc. to be sages in their own right, those who searched for truth.

They can be considered as intellectual sages in their own right,who strove to find truth in the material dimension, but not spiritual sages.

You definetely cannot term them as Rishis or Buddhas, who searched their own inner nature or consciousness as opposed to the external nature.

The nazi scientists present at that era could be considered as the greatest scientists present at that time on earth, but they cannot be considered spiritual in any manner considering their experiments on human beings and children in concentration camps, in the name of science.

 

[Ravi500]

Physical energy because I find nothing else to be present anywhere in the universe. Consciousness is limited to a brain and a mind. IMV, it has no presence beyond that.

This is my earlier question addressed to you " I am asking for the teachings of any enlightened sage of the past to support your interpretation of Advaita that Brahman is not consciousness, but universal energy."

I understand that you consider yourself to be 'enlightened', but I would appreciate it if you could name an enlightened master of the past to support your interpretation of advaita as universal energy and not a state of consciousness.

 

[Sees]

They can be considered as intellectual sages in their own right,who strove to find truth in the material dimension, but not spiritual sages.

You definetely cannot term them as Rishis or Buddhas, who searched their own inner nature or consciousness as opposed to the external nature......

Well it is a thread on non-duality What you are relaying here is clear duality.

 

[Ravi500]

Well it is a thread on non-duality What you are relaying here is clear duality.

And how is it duality !! Would study of science, lead one to the unitary perception, or would meditation.

I am aware of many hyperintellectuals who had committed suicide out of depression.

 

[Sha'irullah]

auto-theism to a certain extenct.

As an avid promoter of non-dualism let me express to you the reality of the situation.

The brain is best described as a hard-drive where one singular storage unite contains all the information along with perceptive capabilities. Hard drive have an amazing ability called partitioning which is when a hard drive can set aside a portion of its capacity to be used to emulate another hard drive. This secondary or even third hard drive is actually on the same hard drive disk yet it functions like a separate drive.

This is the reality of the mind. The mind is in partitions and not all things we perceive as real are actually separate from our own consciousness. It is apart of our consciousness but not working in unison. Our perception of god is merely a reflection of our own selves.

Even biologically this is supported....
To The Brain, God Is Just Another Guy : NPR

Brain scans of participants thinking about God show activation in the parts of the brain where people empathize with others. One such brain region, called the precuneus (the upper green dot), is also associated with imagination, balancing complex tasks and self-consciousness. During the same scan (see far left and far right images) there was also activation in visual processing areas, indicating that humans visualize God using the same brain networks involved when humans visualize themselves.​

I learned a lot with my brief encounter with Hinduism

 

[Sees]

And how is it duality !! Would study of science, lead one to the unitary perception, or would meditation.

I am aware of many hyperintellectuals who had committed suicide out of depression.

How would any real kknowledge not benefit a person who is holistic being? Separating material and spiritual is very basic, clear duality. Non-duality is identified by characteristics of inclusiveness. What truth does a mentally ill man who is often in meditation and reflection really know? Everything on every level has to challenge and then witness your truth or else it's just a brain fart.

 

[Ravi500]

Ehhh, I thought you said you were an Advaitin (and enlightened (!) no less). All of Vedanta teaches that consciousness is all-pervading, that indeed consciousness is Brahman (प्रज्ञानम् ब्रह्&#2350. We cannot say that consciousness has any limitation because all (spatial) limitations are present within consciousness only. It is like saying the jar(body,mind,etc) which is within space can limit that very same space. The चित्, chit in the word satcitānanda denotes consciousness, and that is Brahman. I think to reduce consciousness to the grey matter in the body is very reductive, even materialistic, and further to suggest that Brahman is physical energy only (and, I assume, that therefore there is only physical energy) is quickly approaching a kind of monistic materialism, which is far and away from what the prasthānatrayī teaches, whether you're an Advaitin or Vishishtadvaitin or even a dualist. Though do forgive me if I've got the wrong end of the stick with your beliefs, as (I think!) this is my first post directed to you.

Very well said indeed, Makaranda.

Thus one should know oneself to be of the nature of Existence-Consciousness-Bliss[Sat-Chit-Ananda]. -- Adi Shankaracharya

Ramana Maharshi himself had stated in answer to a devotees inquiry on the non-dual state. "There is Consciousness along with quietness in the mind; this is exactly the state to be aimed at."


When the founder of Advaita Vedanta, Adi Shankaracharya himself, had denoted Brahman as a state of consciousness, blissful and one with existence, I find it bizaree that Advaita is reinterpreted as being nothing but universal energy, and nothing related to consciousness.

Advaita is actually the state of expanded awareness, which comes with the extinction of the ego. And since the whole world is seen as one with that perception, it is considered as the nondual state.

This is the same as Buddha's Shunyata, which means 'empty' or 'void' , meaning the extinction of the ego.

Both Advaita and Shunyata are ways of interpreting the non-dual state or no-mind.

It is the same as saying the glass is half full from one angle, and the glass is half empty from another angle.


When advaita is misinterpreted as universal energy and not a state of consciousness, ignorantly, then I am afraid a time will come when Buddha's Shunyata will be misinterpreted as a black hole, and not a state of consciousness.

 

[Ravi500]

How would any real kknowledge not benefit a person who is holistic being? Separating material and spiritual is very basic, clear duality.

Yes, and where does the point of separation of the spiritual and material emerge. Is it in the intellect, or in a state of consciousness.

Non-duality is identified by characteristics of inclusiveness. What truth does a mentally ill man who is often in meditation and reflection really know?

Many ancient sages , including the Buddha, were in meditation and reflection. Would that make them mentally ill.

Everything on every level has to challenge and then witness your truth or else it's just a brain fart.

I understand that you are vehemently supporting inclusiveness of the spiritual and material. But is this on a mere intellectual understanding or from a state of consciousness which really perceives no duality whatsoever.

 

[Sees]

Yes, and where does the point of separation of the spiritual and material emerge. Is it in the intellect, or in a state of consciousness.



Many ancient sages , including the Buddha, were in meditation and reflection. Would that make them mentally ill.



I understand that you are vehemently supporting inclusiveness of the spiritual and material. But is this on a mere intellectual understanding or from a state of consciousness which really perceives no duality whatsoever.

It wouldn't make them ill by any means..but we might have that conclusion if their "findings" were against the world.

My understanding of non-duality is holistic. The secret mystery is non-duality and duality are hand in hand. Illusion is both real and unreal. We identify and label them to make sense and have a framework. Duality pays the bills.

 

[Ravi500]

It wouldn't make them ill by any means..but we might have that conclusion if their "findings" were against the world.

And are their "findings" against the world !!

My understanding of non-duality is holistic. The secret mystery is non-duality and duality are hand in hand. Illusion is both real and unreal. We identify and label them to make sense and have a framework. Duality pays the bills..

This is but intellectual understanding.

Non-duality pays the bills as well.

 

[Sees]

And are their "findings" against the world !!



This is but intellectual understanding.

Non-duality pays the bills as well.

I'm not much of an intellectual at all, more of a practical live-it sort of fellow. I even have a little Buddha figure next to my Thor and Odin idols

Pure non-duality wouldn't work well with communications to other beings who really are separate from our self. It would be odd as well to teach combat tactics with this framework - that pays my bills.

 

[Ravi500]

I'm not much of an intellectual at all, more of a practical live-it sort of fellow. I even have a little Buddha figure next to my Thor and Odin idols

I am fond of Thor, but my favourite is Tyr.

Pure non-duality wouldn't work well with communications to other beings who really are separate from our self.

On the contrary, the state of love goes with the non-dual state as well. Relationships flourish in the non-dual state.

It would be odd as well to teach combat tactics with this framework - that pays my bills.

Bodhidharma, the founder of martial arts, taught martial arts in the non-dual state. Most martial arts have zen as their basis.

In the Gita, Krishna himself exhorts Arjuna to fight in the non-dual state through karma yoga.

 

[Sees]

I am fond of Thor, but my favourite is Tyr.



On the contrary, the state of love goes with the non-dual state as well. Relationships flourish in the non-dual state.



Bodhidharma, the founder of martial arts, taught martial arts in the non-dual state. Most martial arts have zen as their basis.

In the Gita, Krishna himself exhorts Arjuna to fight in the non-dual state through karma yoga.

We only have a couple days with these guys who are rather black vs white juggernauts compared to eloquent mystics. Among instructors things go towards other areas at times or my little parting speech to a class on ethics and somewhat spirituality.

Martial arts I grew up with and helped in the MCMAP development stage but in these type of things the spirit of it is very different. 1 out of 10 will have taken a life in the past year if not more.

Edit: Can't take up more Hindu space for now but feel free to message or invite me to a new thread and accept my friend invitation.

Hindu cousins - you know I salute you all and don't mind my visit

 

[Ravi500]

We only have a couple days with these guys who are rather black vs white juggernauts compared to eloquent mystics. Among instructors things go towards other areas at times or my little parting speech to a class on ethics and somewhat spirituality.

Martial arts I grew up with and helped in the MCMAP development stage but in these type of things the spirit of it is very different. 1 out of 10 will have taken a life in the past year if not more.

Thank you for the information.

Edit: Can't take up more Hindu space for now but feel free to message or invite me to a new thread and accept my friend invitation.

Thank you very much for the friendly offers.

I believe that Tyr is underestimated or in the shadows of Thor and Odin, but we can discuss that in a different thread in an another time. He remains a heroic figure for me, considering how he sacrificed his hand to bind the giant wolf, for the good of the world.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I understand that you consider yourself to be 'enlightened', but I would appreciate it if you could name an enlightened master of the past to support your interpretation of advaita as universal energy and not a state of consciousness.

If I am enlightened, why would I require support from any other person? Why should I even look for confirmation for what I know to be true?

Well, physical energy and its forms have their own properties. But it should not be termed as consciousness. For example, behavior of a photon in a double-blind experiment. It is certainly not like human consciousness.

And how is it duality !! Would study of science, lead one to the unitary perception, or would meditation.

I am aware of many hyperintellectuals who had committed suicide out of depression.

Yes, study of science leads one to unitary perception. Depression? What is that? Don't you think it is too late for me to get depressed after 71 years of life?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Very well said indeed, Makaranda. .. When advaita is misinterpreted as universal energy and not a state of consciousness, ignorantly, then I am afraid a time will come when Buddha's Shunyata will be misinterpreted as a black hole, and not a state of consciousness.

Read Buddha's Kalama Sutta (Kalamas were a tribe in his time):

"Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing, nor upon tradition, nor upon rumor, nor upon what is in a scripture, nor upon surmise, nor upon an axiom, nor upon specious reasoning, nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over, nor upon another's seeming ability, nor upon the consideration, "The monk is our teacher."

Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.' "
Kalama Sutta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why do you need confirmation by others? Can't you stand on your own?

 

[Ravi500]

I am reminded of the fable of the enlightened sage Chuang-tzu, i.e the story of the frog in the well.

Chinese Stories/The frog of the well - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

When one is stuck intensely in delusions, it is quite hard to face facts to the contrary, and rectify one's perception or thought process accordingly. :sad4: :candle: