Question for Theists

[jarofthoughts]

When a follower of science says "I know all", he stops being a scientist, IMO.

...

"I know all" is a nonsensical claim easily refuted.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Maybe so...maybe not. In either case none of that can be considered evidence of aliens.

Lol how I laugh at your ignorance and at the same time want to headbutt a wall

Yes everyone is lying JOT...everyone is lying mate....that soil hadn't vitrified at all, those little droplets of iron are normal yeah real normal like...naaa....microscope was lying anyway...as I am of course.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

It is certainly possible. Perhaps there is some hidden organisation of pranksters who just loves to pull people's legs. At any rate, implausible as that is, it is more plausible than the "aliens did it" idea because we know for a fact that pranksters exist and that some of them put huge amounts of effort into their pranks.

Actually a team from my university (cambridge) a couple of years ago demonstrated it wasnt humanely possible to reproduce a selection of Crop circles under the conditions they were created.
There is nothing plausible about the larger mathematically precise complex layered crop circles being completed in a few hours in darkness...with accompanying irradiated stalks, soil anomalies and iron deposits..

Both scientific evidence from the soil and analyses of the wheat shows that whatever happened in the crop circle it involved more than a stick and tape something you again dismiss and deny is of any import...part of the prankster's joke.

Your logic is the joke here JOT...it is warped.

Certanly some of the primitive crop circles are prankster made...but I dont think you have any conception of the difference...
Have you ever looked at crop circle images?


You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

 

[The Wizard]

Actually a team from my university (cambridge) a couple of years ago demonstrated it wasnt humanely possible to reproduce a selection of Crop circles under the conditions they were created.
There is nothing plausible about the larger mathematically precise complex layered crop circles being completed in a few hours in darkness...with accompanying irradiated stalks, soil anomalies and iron deposits..

Both scientific evidence from the soil and analyses of the wheat shows that whatever happened in the crop circle it involved more than a stick and tape something you again dismiss and deny is of any import...part of the prankster's joke.

Your logic is the joke here JOT...it is warped.

Certanly some of the primitive crop circles are prankster made...but I dont think you have any conception of the difference...
Have you ever looked at crop circle images?


You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

I heard there have been traces of radiation found with some of those things. There are things about crop circles that are quite mysterious.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Lol how I laugh at your ignorance and at the same time want to headbutt a wall

Yes everyone is lying JOT...everyone is lying mate....that soil hadn't vitrified at all, those little droplets of iron are normal yeah real normal like...naaa....microscope was lying anyway...as I am of course.

Mate, I've never said any of the above... :sarcastic

 

[jarofthoughts]

Actually a team from my university (cambridge) a couple of years ago demonstrated it wasnt humanely possible to reproduce a selection of Crop circles under the conditions they were created.
There is nothing plausible about the larger mathematically precise complex layered crop circles being completed in a few hours in darkness...with accompanying irradiated stalks, soil anomalies and iron deposits..

Both scientific evidence from the soil and analyses of the wheat shows that whatever happened in the crop circle it involved more than a stick and tape something you again dismiss and deny is of any import...part of the prankster's joke.

Interesting. Could you link me to any of the scientific studies made on crop circles?

Your logic is the joke here JOT...it is warped.

You seem somewhat hostile to the fact that I'm not immediately accepting your assertions.
I wonder why that is? :sarcastic

Certanly some of the primitive crop circles are prankster made...but I dont think you have any conception of the difference...
Have you ever looked at crop circle images?


You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

I've seen a few images, yes, but I fully admit that the subject of crop circles is not one that I've focused much on. So perhaps if you are done trying to insult me you could provide some proper sources/links to studies that have been made and I'll gladly take a look at them.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Interesting. Could you link me to any of the scientific studies made on crop circles?

Yes I will.

You seem somewhat hostile to the fact that I'm not immediately accepting your assertions.
I wonder why that is? :sarcastic

Narcissic personality disorder most likely...or perhaps because I know my own mother is a rational human being and has in confidence reported sighting a large triangular UFO much like the ones I submitted in the images of UFOs earlier, she told me it was approximately the size of a football pitch and moved noiselessly at about walking pace apparently searching some woodland with bright lights.....about 20ft overhead.
Is she lying? highly unlikely...she has no motive and in fact was rather embarrased to tell me and told only me...but she knows I am prepared to give anything due consideration.
Is she mistaken? highly unlikely we didn't have very large triangular noiseless hovering aircraft in the 1970s or do we today.
Did she suffer a psychotic episode? As far as we know she does not suffer from any psychosis.
Thats the only paranormal thing she has privately claimed to me she has seen so if it was why a UFO and not a blue goblin?

I've seen a few images, yes, but I fully admit that the subject of crop circles is not one that I've focused much on. So perhaps if you are done trying to insult me you could provide some proper sources/links to studies that have been made and I'll gladly take a look at them.

I will do that...you will hopefully be amazed...give me time because I will take the effort with this in order to perhaps make up for insulting you...if you think I did.
I mean no insult...you are a bit uni directional in thought...I imagine that is a philosophical choice rather than a logical one

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I heard there have been traces of radiation found with some of those things. There are things about crop circles that are quite mysterious.

Very mysterious...very odd...and basically baffling.

 

[waitasec]

When a follower of science says "I know all", he stops being a scientist, IMO.

...

and when the religious say they know the mind of god they cease to be what?

 

[buddhadev]

God does not exist for them who do not believe in his existence and He does exist for them who believe in his existence.

 

[Gaura Priya]

and when the religious say they know the mind of god they cease to be what?

They cease their pious merit in being a religionist.

Even if God as a Personal Entity wouldn't exist, I would still believe in God, but my definition may change. God could represent the Universe, or It may be the highest ideal in mankind, such as the early Classical Unitarians described for 'Heaven'.

Just because a conception may not have a basis in reality, does not mean that we can not gain from the myths in terms of morals, ethnics, or sometimes even inspiration. I think we often object to such myths as obsolete, but they are so ingrained in our culture that a mere redefinition is always a beautiful thing.

 

[waitasec]

They cease their pious merit in being a religionist.

Even if God as a Personal Entity wouldn't exist, I would still believe in God, but my definition may change. God could represent the Universe, or It may be the highest ideal in mankind, such as the early Classical Unitarians described for 'Heaven'.

Just because a conception may not have a basis in reality, does not mean that we can not gain from the myths in terms of morals, ethnics, or sometimes even inspiration. I think we often object to such myths as obsolete, but they are so ingrained in our culture that a mere redefinition is always a beautiful thing.

i like your thinking

i wouldn't say that myth is obsolete...it is after all an extension of who we are, what we aspire to become, our inspiration. judging from our ancestors it appears our perception of ourselves has evolved into a more empathetic phase thusly why i think our morality has evolved. but of course this all depends on where you live. even so, i think the over all sympathetic tendencies for others seems to be more prevalent. well at least, as far as i know that is, people are not being sacrificed to the volcano god...
evolution is a very slow process, indeed.

 

[atanu]

and when the religious say they know the mind of god they cease to be what?

Same as when a budding scientist says that science knows everything or can know everything, disregarding the knowledge of the highest sciences.

...

 

[waitasec]

Same as when a budding scientist says that science knows everything or can know everything, disregarding the knowledge of the highest sciences.

...

science is in a constant search for truth.

thus far science has only shown how little we know.

isn't it the purpose of religion to step in at the "limits" of our knowledge until the next guy comes along and pushes the limits further?

 

[Gaura Priya]

i like your thinking

i wouldn't say that myth is obsolete...it is after all an extension of who we are, what we aspire to become, our inspiration. judging from our ancestors it appears our perception of ourselves has evolved into a more empathetic phase thusly why i think our morality has evolved. but of course this all depends on where you live. even so, i think the over all sympathetic tendencies for others seems to be more prevalent. well at least, as far as i know that is, people are not being sacrificed to the volcano god...
evolution is a very slow process, indeed.

Aww! Thank you! It's not very often that this little dude touts something even remotely intelligent! :beach:

You can even say that as a whole in humanity, our understanding and depth of compassion has also developed collectively. No longer are we warring tribes or towns and villages looking for survival, but rather we are dealing with a potential global village in which communication distance decreases with every passing day. We have reached an age where we understand that homosexuality and transsexuality have an origin in the human species as an unchangeable mark of identity through scientific investigation, rather than comment with a mere shrug of abnormality nor with an intolerant tirade of aberration and sexual deviancy.

We no longer claim of an individual salvation, or survival, to the demise, chagrin and cost of others, but we now seek to understand the beauty of universalism, that every person has a part to contribute to society in whatever they do to bring out humankind's divine perfections and virtues.

We do not seek Divine Revelation, but rather Divine Inspiration. No longer the mere call of the Prophets, but the clarion call of all inspired men and women who speak of justice, tolerance, love and peace for all. We do not fear discovery of new ideas and change, but embrace them through the bounties which science has given us.

Religion should be the 'independent investigation of truth' of wherever we find beauty, strength, and goodness. No longer should it remain a dogmatic institution, but a mere instrument or tool for introspection and personal reflection of beauty in the world.

So 'God' should evoke the sacred out of all, whether we see God as a Personal Entity who saves all, who loves all, and who takes care of all, or rather a metaphor for all the Beauty of the Universe and all it has to offer us.

Even if we never get there and the impossibility is the inevitable conclusion, that continuous strive for perfection for 'God' (the spirit of life, of love and truth) should be the goal of every human being. I am sure that if we were a little more selfless, including me, we would create Heaven on Earth.

[youtube]KiypaURysz4[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiypaURysz4

Peter Mayer's UU music is really inspirational.

 

[The Wizard]

You leave behind the only world that you have ever known ...
And blindly enter into another totally different one when you are born.
You will repeat this remarkable process again when you die!

In the last and final act of separation from the only world that you have ever known, a cord is cut and the life support system that has sustained you since your beginning completely shuts down. Incredibly, an entirely new life support system takes over and you find a way to breathe by catching a new breath. All of this should be familiar territory to you but it's no wonder that you can't remember dieing. Your mind lost consciousness in order to survive the trauma, just like it does during a bad accident. Your throat was sliced, when the surgeon cut the umbilical cord that had sustained you, since your conception. Birth actually seems like death to the one who is about to be born because in childbearing; there are many that do not survive. For them, birth is death. Your Bellybutton is living proof that you had to survive death in order to get here... and there you were thinking, that your Bellybutton was nothing more than a dust collector.

MOTHER NATURE GAVE YOU A BELLY BUTTON ON YOUR BIRTHDAY. A Bellybutton is an odd gift indeed but it was given to you, on your very first birthday, so that you would never forget just how remarkable you are. You have already survived death once and you even have the scar to prove it! Your Bellybutton is a symbol of "your past life" and the mark of an extraordinary survivor. Coincidentally, the word "GRAVE" means; to mark, or engrave. Gravestones are "Marking Stones". Bellybuttons and Gravestones are marks that are left behind after a passing.

As strange as it may seem, human bodies are transportation devices. You came out of your mother's body when you were born, and you will come out of your own body when you die. A human body brought you into this world and a human body will release you from it. Dying and being born are the very same thing but it's the outcome of the act that determines how we choose to use the words.

Human beings are truly remarkable and that is why, we use two words instead of only one, to describe ourselves as a species. We use the term "Human Being" to describe ourselves because there are two separate parts to our nature. The "Human" part of your nature is your Visible Outer Person (VOP). The "Being" part of your nature is your Invisible Inner Person (IIP)... or otherwise known as, your inner person(ality). Your Outer Person(OP) is made of physical matter but your Inner Personality (IP) is not. A doctor cannot find your personality with a scalpel or a microscope and that's too bad... because your personality was essentially created from two other personalities (mother/father), therefore you were born with a "split personality". Your purpose in life is to develop the split-minded personality that you were born with into a "single-minded one, before you die..

Your personality is growing inside of you just like a baby in a womb. It's developing and changing during every minute of every day. In fact, you are not the same person today that you were yesterday, or for that matter... ten minutes ago. Personality growth ends when death begins. Death separates the non-physical part of your nature from the physical part. If your personality is strong enough to survive death... then once again, you will be born into another new life. Where else would newborns for the next life come from?

You faced death once before and found out that there was life beyond the womb and, if your personality is strong enough, when you die... YOU WILL ALSO FIND OUT; THAT THERE IS LIFE BEYOND THE TOMB.

COPYRIGHT: CONSULTING WITH THE SPIRITUAL HOBO / ED BULEY 1998

You have some remarkable insight about some things. Thanks for sharing..

 

[jarofthoughts]

I will do that...you will hopefully be amazed...give me time because I will take the effort with this in order to perhaps make up for insulting you...if you think I did.
I mean no insult...you are a bit uni directional in thought...I imagine that is a philosophical choice rather than a logical one

I'm rather thick-skinned so don't worry about that too much. I just like to point out to people that attacking the person/the persons age and/or education/whatever, is not a valid argument.
I know.
I'm weird that way.

But I'm looking forward to reviewing the studies and I would like nothing more than to be amazed. I love being amazed.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

I'm rather thick-skinned so don't worry about that too much. I just like to point out to people that attacking the person/the persons age and/or education/whatever, is not a valid argument.

As you get older you will realise it is a perfectly valid argument

Life brings experience and experience is knowledge...you have yet to discover...as I do.

 

[jarofthoughts]

As you get older you will realise it is a perfectly valid argument

Life brings experience and experience is knowledge...you have yet to discover...as I do.

Ad Hominem is considered a classical logical fallacy.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Ad Hominem is considered a classical logical fallacy.

The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy,[2] but it is not always fallacious; in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.

Wikipedia