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question for those who reject biological evolution

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
sorry but that is rubbish. The reason why it was written by the Apostle Peter is because the writer himself says so.
If a Christian is going to start playing those sorts of games, then screw christianity...the whole bible is fabricated.

Your argument is nonesense. The claim of authorship by the writer alone as an eyewitness to Christs baptism is proof of that! (i will not answer to any more of your stupidity on this point)
LMAO! Oh my, you have to be kidding me. That means that Bilbo Baggins wrote the Hobbit. You really need to think things over when you claim things to be "rubbish". By the way, in those days it appears that people were not so offended when someone else wrote in a person's name, as long as they accurately reflected that person's beliefs. Do you want to discuss the evidence? Right now you are just arguing for Bilbo.
 
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Eli G

Well-Known Member
... What I would like to know, from those who reject biological evolution, is this: would you turn down a treatment for an illness that was only possible to develop using scientific knowledge from biological evolution? ...
Do you want to give specific examples of "a treatment for an illness that was only possible to develop using scientific knowledge from biological evolution"?

What illness? What treatment? And how that treatment of that illness has anything to do with the doctrine of evolution?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Do you want to give specific examples of "a treatment for an illness that was only possible to develop using scientific knowledge from biological evolution"?

What illness? What treatment? And how that treatment of that illness has anything to do with the doctrine of evolution?
When you ask improper questions no one needs to answer them. There is no "doctrine" of evolution.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
sorry but that is rubbish. The reason why it was written by the Apostle Peter is because the writer himself says so.
I am honestly surprised that you can't realize the stark, almost comic, stupidity of that statement.

If a Christian is going to start playing those sorts of games, then screw christianity...the whole bible is fabricated.
... deep breaths ... deep breaths.
 

anotherneil

Well-Known Member
Do you want to give specific examples of "a treatment for an illness that was only possible to develop using scientific knowledge from biological evolution"?

What illness? What treatment? And how that treatment of that illness has anything to do with the doctrine of evolution?
Mislabeling or misunderstanding of scientific knowledge regarding evolution as a "doctrine" aside, I think I already covered this adequately in the OP.

For the purposes of the question that I'm asking, it doesn't matter whether or not treatments for illnesses were developed with the help of scientific knowledge of evolution.

It's analogous asking someone who's hard-core communist and morally opposed to anyone having a net worth of more than a million dollars whether or not they'd accept a gift of $50 million dollars. I don't actually have $50 million dollars to give away to anyone, but it's still possible for such an individual to answer such a question.

If you would like to learn more, here are some things you can look into: evolutionary medicine, immunotherapy, and how scientific understanding of evolution has helped in dealing with MRSA.
 
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Eli G

Well-Known Member
Mislabeling or misunderstanding of scientific knowledge regarding evolution as a "doctrine" aside, I think I already covered this adequately in the OP.

...
Since it is taught in schools as if it were a fact, IT IS A DOCTRINE ... and since those who believe it do not have enough proof to fully demonstrate it, it is evident that they have been INDOCTRINATED. :)
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Since it is taught in schools as if it were a fact, IT IS A DOCTRINE ... and since those who believe it do not have enough proof to fully demonstrate it, it is evident that they have been INDOCTRINATED. :)

If you don't like, you can delete my post as you've done before. But you cannot erase the truth that has been told.
No, it is demonstrably a fact. You probably have this mistaken concept because you have been indoctrinated yourself. There are religious doctrines. Some of them demonstrably wrong. And yet because the believers were indoctrinated as children and due to threats of endless torture and threats from their own church they will continue to beleive.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Do you want to give specific examples of "a treatment for an illness that was only possible to develop using scientific knowledge from biological evolution"?

What illness? What treatment? And how that treatment of that illness has anything to do with the doctrine of evolution?
That was what I asked. Was it too much?

It seems that the one who said there were some illnesses which treatment "was only possible to develop using scientific knowledge from biological evolution" exagerated or purposedly lied about this.

Apparently the doctrine of evolution is not as useful as some would have us believe. :rolleyes:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That was what I asked. Was it too much?

It seems that the one who said there were some illnesses which treatment "was only possible to develop using scientific knowledge from biological evolution" exagerated or purposedly lied about this.

Apparently the doctrine of evolution is not as useful as some would have us believe. :rolleyes:
You made an improper challenge. No illness has only one treatment. What he showed is that the best treatment of some diseases rely upon evolution.
 

anotherneil

Well-Known Member
Since it is taught in schools as if it were a fact, IT IS A DOCTRINE ... and since those who believe it do not have enough proof to fully demonstrate it, it is evident that they have been INDOCTRINATED. :)
What is taught in schools in science courses are discoveries and observations, such as the fossil record; this is something that is not only told, it is something that can be shown. These discoveries and observations get presented as evidence. It's why we have things like field trips and museums. It's why we have documentation of those discoveries and observations.

You can even become a paleontologist and go on fossil dig expeditions to see for yourself what there is to discover and observe, and you can do your own documentation of your findings.

You could also make the contention that some of the evidence is fabricated; this has happened before, such as with Piltdown man. In this case, I think I would use the word "deception" over the word "indoctrinated", though.

I don't know why someone would do something like fabricate Piltdown man, but one fabricated fossil doesn't negate all fossils, just like one counterfeit $20 bill doesn't negate all $20 bills.

If you don't like, you can delete my post as you've done before. But you cannot erase the truth that has been told.
I don't know what this is about. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else, or this is purely an intentional attempt at defamation of my character.

Not only have I never deleted any of your posts, I've never even had any kind of access to do such a thing, on this forum.

What you just did here is an unacceptable smear against me; it's libel & it's not going to help your cause.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
BTW, it wouldn't surprise me if someone who rejects biological evolution would say that they would turn down something like a treatment based on biological evolution. There are cases folks who let themselves die rather than get treatment, and it seems like something that isn't very uncommon.

What would be interesting is to find out that someone who rejects evolution would accept treatments that were developed from scientific knowledge derived from biological evolution & frankly, they seem to me like they'd be hypocrites.
Personal ego-integrity often takes precedence over personal safety or well-being.
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
LMAO! Oh my, you have to be kidding me. That means that Bilbo Baggins wrote the Hobbit. You really need to think things over when you claim things to be "rubbish". By the way, in those days it appears that people were not so offended when someone else wrote in a person's name, as long as they accurately reflected that person's beliefs. Do you want to discuss the evidence? Right now you are just arguing for Bilbo.
simple people who dont now how to do basic research come up with statements like yours above...

Book of Romans:
"1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, and set apart for the gospel of God—"

Corinthians
1Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,

James
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation

John Greets the Seven Churches
4John,

To the seven churches in the province of Asia:b
John’s Vision on Patmos
9I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance that are in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and my testimony about Jesus.

I am honestly surprised that you can't realize the stark, almost comic, stupidity of that statement.


... deep breaths ... deep breaths.
Stupid is as stupid does...you follow in the footsteps of those who dont know the basic principles of collating evidence.

The reason why we know who wrote the majority of New testatement books is because the writers themselves tell us they wrote them. Anyone who has even the smallest knowledge of bible readings would already know this.

Then, we can further verify authorship through external evidences...such as we know that Moses most likely wrote the Torah because for example one exernal source, the Babylonian version of the Talmud tells us he wrote it! So that is an historical source that dates back well over 1000 years.

We have archeological artifacts and findings that support the bible narrative...such as Hezekiahs tunnels (which you can go and see "in the flesh" so to speak even today).


Al-Yahudu tablets from 500B.C illustrate Jewish captivity in Babylon

We know these things because we actually use our intelligence and do some research instead of coming out with brainless statements such as those of naysayers who dont bother researching anything other than third hand wives tails!
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Stupid is as stupid does...you follow in the footsteps of those who dont know the basic principles of collating evidence.

The reason why we know who wrote the majority of New testatement books is because the writers themselves tell us they wrote them. Anyone who has even the smallest knowledge of bible readings would already know this.
Absolutely! The Gospel of James is one of my particular favorites.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
simple people who dont now how to do basic research come up with statements like yours above...

Book of Romans:
"1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, and set apart for the gospel of God—"

Corinthians
1Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,

James
1James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation

John Greets the Seven Churches
4John,

To the seven churches in the province of Asia:b
John’s Vision on Patmos
9I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance that are in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and my testimony about Jesus.


Stupid is as stupid does...you follow in the footsteps of those who dont know the basic principles of collating evidence.

The reason why we know who wrote the majority of New testatement books is because the writers themselves tell us they wrote them. Anyone who has even the smallest knowledge of bible readings would already know this.

Then, we can further verify authorship through external evidences...such as we know that Moses most likely wrote the Torah because for example one exernal source, the Babylonian version of the Talmud tells us he wrote it! So that is an historical source that dates back well over 1000 years.

We have archeological artifacts and findings that support the bible narrative...such as Hezekiahs tunnels (which you can go and see "in the flesh" so to speak even today).


Al-Yahudu tablets from 500B.C illustrate Jewish captivity in Babylon

We know these things because we actually use our intelligence and do some research instead of coming out with brainless statements such as those of naysayers who dont bother researching anything other than third hand wives tails!
Oh my. Such poor poor reasoning. Once again, just because a book says that it was written by someone does not necessarily mean that it was written by someone. Let's take Paul. He was a historical figure, he was well educated. He had the ability to write, so when quite a bit of work with his name attached to it claims to have been written by him and was well accepted by others, then yes we can reasonable accept that it was written by him. But not even all of "Paul's letters" are thought to be by Paul. If someone wrote in my place or someone wrote in your place using our names it would be obvious after a while that it was not us. The same happened to some of the writings of Paul. The differences in writing style is too great. There are at least 6 of "Paul's letters" that scholars of the Bible are very sure were not written by Paul:

"Among the Pauline documents in the New Testament, six are thought by many to be pseudonymous, i.e., documents falsely claiming to be written by Paul.1 These six include: Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians and the Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus)."


Peter on the other hand was not well educated. The Gospels are clear on that. And the timing of the works of Peter appear to be too late to be written by him. You are looking at this with modern eyes where such a thing is incredibly wrong. At the time of the writing of the Bible it appears to have been quite common.

And yes, I am well aware of the Babylonian captivity. That was the most likely time period for the writing of the Pentateuch. Yes, parts of the New Testament we do know who wrote it. But the Gospel and Acts and Revelation are all anonymous. Revelation was written by "John" but that was a common name back then. Very few scholars think that it was John he Apostle.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Since it is taught in schools as if it were a fact, IT IS A DOCTRINE ... and since those who believe it do not have enough proof to fully demonstrate it, it is evident that they have been INDOCTRINATED. :)

If you don't like, you can delete my post as you've done before. But you cannot erase the truth that has been told.
I learned certain things in school about evolution that were eventually changed. They weren't taught as possibilities in school, but as facts. And as students, no one expressed the thought that these things can change. Neither did the teachers I studied with.
An interesting study on textbook teaching of evolution.
 
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