Question from a friendly atheist to faithful Christians, Muslims and Jews:

[Kirby D. P.]

So you're saying that courts and laws are not good?

Yes. Courts with human judges seeking justice under some constitutional framework that ensures universal human rights are good. But (please correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think there's any verse in the Bible that says: *subject to interpretation.

 

[Akivah]

Yes. Courts with human judges seeking justice under some constitutional framework that ensures universal human rights are good. But (please correct me if I'm wrong), I don't think there's any verse in the Bible that says: *subject to interpretation.

OK, you're wrong.

E x o 21-27 But you shall choose out of the entire nation men of substance, G-d fearers, men of truth, who hate monetary gain, and you shall appoint over them [Israel] leaders over thousands, leaders over hundreds, leaders over fifties, and leaders over tens. And they shall judge the people at all times, and it shall be that any major matter they shall bring to you, and they themselves shall judge every minor matter, thereby making it easier for you, and they shall bear [the burden] with you. If you do this thing, and the Lord commands you, you will be able to survive, and also, all this people will come upon their place in peace." Moses obeyed his father in law, and he did all that he said. Moses chose men of substance out of all Israel and appointed them as heads of the people, leaders of thousands, leaders of hundreds, leaders of fifties, and leaders of tens. And they would judge the people at all times; the difficult case they would bring to Moses, but any minor case they themselves would judge.

 

[Kirby D. P.]

OK, you're wrong.

E x o 21-27 But you shall choose out of the entire nation men of substance... ...they themselves would judge.

AH, but I'm right, Akivah. These "judges" are not tasked with interpreting the Law, they are tasked with judging how religiously the people are cleaving to the letter of it, to wit:

Num 15: 32-36 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

Do you have any more shot int the locker? If not, and you had been there, would you have thrown any stones?

 

[Akivah]

AH, but I'm right, Akivah. These "judges" are not tasked with interpreting the Law, they are tasked with judging how religiously the people are cleaving to the letter of it, to wit:

You are doing your own interpreting. The passage that I quoted clearly refers to judges having to make interpretations to the law as needed. We are the ones that have used the Law to guide our lives for thousands of years.

 

[Kirby D. P.]

[QUOTE="We are the ones that have used the Law to guide our lives for thousands of years.[/QUOTE]

Oh, no question that, as a culture, the Jews have interpreted the actual execution of the Law over the ages, and thank God for that. But I am NOT interpreting scripture with anything other than the common and historic usage of the words in Hebrew, Greek and English. I'm saying if I want to kill a man who engages in gay sex, I can find injunction to do so in the Torah: Masoretic text, KJV, you name it -- Lev 18:22 AND Lev 20:13, #157 of the 613 Mosaic commandments. If I want to find some explicit license to IGNORE that sick edict, I contend it's not in the Tanakh. As I said, the passage you cited does not EXPLICITLY say, "Meh, that thing about stoning ****... don't put yourself out over it." Instead, based on how Moses discharges those authorities in the ensuing chapters, these passages outlining a system of judges can only reasonably taken as a program for policing infidels.

Sorta' like (sorry to "got there" in terms of hyperbole) ISIS.

 

[Katzpur]

Not really...
But I'm non-denom, So I'm not obliged to any doctrine.

Doctrines are not just a bunch of rules. "Doctrines" is merely a synonym for "teachings." Regardless of whether you affiliate with any specific Christian denomination, you certainly would accept Jesus Christ's teachings (as you understand them), wouldn't you?

 

[Thana]

Doctrines are not just a bunch of rules. "Doctrines" is merely a synonym for "teachings." Regardless of whether you affiliate with any specific Christian denomination, you certainly would accept Jesus Christ's teachings (as you understand them), wouldn't you?

Yes.
But I'm not obliged to any specific understanding or interpretation of His words, Or even acknowledgement that they are all His words.

 

[Katzpur]

Yes.
But I'm not obliged to any specific understanding or interpretation of His words, Or even acknowledgement that they are all His words.

Fair enough.