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Question -- not a debate but...about life on earth

Gassim

Member
So I read that scientists have discovered a black hole then a huge hole in the sun -- so what's to say the sun will definitely burn up and the Earth will not be existing any more? You can debate all you want to, but I am convinced science does not have the "answers" to life. Anyway. MSN




That is true l totally agree with you
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
See like you put yourself out there, conversating, and then when you begin to lose the argument you try to leave. Dude, that's so dishonest. Why does Jesus require you to be dishonest to fulfill his supposedly honest mission? And what is that? As I've read there's no marriage nor Earthly goodness of any kind, which according to science you won't cherry pick incrementally increases happiness. It's required for the full equation.
It's not about losing the argument. 1. God is the Judge over all, and 2. Death and sorrow will be no more. Life will be joyful. Anything in opposition to that is no longer sustainable as I ponder over what people say. Therefore...we each have our own journey. Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—" John 10:14
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That's not a reason to believe he is God, nor going to be good, only reason to believe he is great

Now all of a sudden you cherry pick science that fits your worldview? That's not the pathway to the truth.

That book is meant to manipulate people by the priesthood which was an arm of the government. Only a fool trusts propaganda.
Not at all.
Jehovah is the ultimate decision maker.
"For Jehovah is our Judge,
Jehovah is our Lawgiver,
Jehovah is our King;
He is the One who will save us."
Isaiah 33:22
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It's not about losing the argument. 1. God is the Judge over all, and 2. Death and sorrow will be no more. Life will be joyful. Anything in opposition to that is no longer sustainable as I ponder over what people say. Therefore...we each have our own journey. Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—" John 10:14
That is your belief, but it should not be affected at all by the fact of evolution.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Why do you believe that though? How do you not see that as silly? Science makes **** that works, like electronics, and spears, and medicines, and all kinds of basically everything, even agriculture. You have to observe and record many things. That is, as any scientist would understand it, the scientific method.


I don't fault the spirit of what you're saying here.

However, one should be cautious equating science with technology - they are not the same thing. Similarly, one should not forget that science is a very modern and recent phenomena in human history. It was not and is not necessary to make discoveries or put those discoveries to practical use for specific purposes (e.g., technologies). Granted, some of this assessment depends on how broadly or narrowly one wants to define "science" and if one is more or less constraining oneself to Western science to the exclusion of, say, indigenous science which was used fort he majority of human history.

Hi @ChieftheCef

it is true, that sciences can play big roles with technology, and they can work-in-hand, to improve either sides.

but it is also true, that you can invent some sorts of technologies without science.

The Homo species during the Palaeolithic - the Homo erectus, the Neanderthals, Homo sapiens, etc - have made tools and weapons for hunting from stone, flint, bone, wood, etc, and over times, improved on them…but they did so without sciences.

It was the same with the Homo sapiens in the Neolithic period, where people discovered agricultural farming, growing food for sustainable population in permanent settlements, developed irrigation systems to water crops, the practical applications of pottery (eg storing food and drink), etc.

Another great invention was the wheel, useful for transporting people or goods…or help with plowing the fields before sowing.

people also made boats out of reeds, and during the Bronze Age, larger vessels constructed with woods, eventually have vessels propelled by wind, ingeniously using mast and sails.

It was technology without science.

science require explanations and predictions that can be rigorously tested, that if true, will become the current knowledge that anyone can learn from.

Although some people will say that astronomy is one of the oldest sciences, I think that’s only partially true.

sure, ancient star gazers were able to methodically and meticulously records the motions of the sun, moon, planets and stars, which found practical uses, like developing calendars, when to sow or to harvest, navigating courses using sun or star constellations, etc, no one in Neolithic, ancient or medieval times, know what these celestial objects really were, how they move, where the lights come, etc. sure people knew the sun provide both light and heat, but they didn’t know the how.

Ancient people used to believe the sun moved because a deity rode in chariot or sailed in a boat. The Hellenistic Jews and later the Christians wrongly thought it were the angels responsible for the sun motion.

It was until after Galileo, that Isaac Newton thought gravity between the Sun and planets (including the Earth) were responsible for their motion. This squashed the long-held church views about angels.


and like @Quintessence said, the whole “Scientific Method“ is actually a modern approach for knowledge gathering and fact finding.
 

ChieftheCef

Well-Known Member
Hi @ChieftheCef

it is true, that sciences can play big roles with technology, and they can work-in-hand, to improve either sides.

but it is also true, that you can invent some sorts of technologies without science.
It is not, to my knowledge anyway. Science as the process of sciencing, taking each individual bit of information for a
The Homo species during the Palaeolithic - the Homo erectus, the Neanderthals, Homo sapiens, etc - have made tools and weapons for hunting from stone, flint, bone, wood, etc, and over times, improved on them…but they did so without sciences.

It was the same with the Homo sapiens in the Neolithic period, where people discovered agricultural farming, growing food for sustainable population in permanent settlements, developed irrigation systems to water crops, the practical applications of pottery (eg storing food and drink), etc.

Another great invention was the wheel, useful for transporting people or goods…or help with plowing the fields before sowing.

people also made boats out of reeds, and during the Bronze Age, larger vessels constructed with woods, eventually have vessels propelled by wind, ingeniously using mast and sails.
It's very likely they used science. They observed reeds floating and began to guess that they could ride enough reeds put together.
It was technology without science.

science require explanations and predictions that can be rigorously tested, that if true, will become the current knowledge that anyone can learn from.

Although some people will say that astronomy is one of the oldest sciences, I think that’s only partially true.

sure, ancient star gazers were able to methodically and meticulously records the motions of the sun, moon, planets and stars, which found practical uses, like developing calendars, when to sow or to harvest, navigating courses using sun or star constellations, etc, no one in Neolithic, ancient or medieval times, know what these celestial objects really were, how they move, where the lights come, etc. sure people knew the sun provide both light and heat, but they didn’t know the how.
So?! You're just prejudice against people from older times. You think they're stupid. Everything knowledge is somehow a science. There's science that is based on observation for any well trusted knowledge.
Ancient people used to believe the sun moved because a deity rode in chariot or sailed in a boat. The Hellenistic Jews and later the Christians wrongly thought it were the angels responsible for the sun motion.
The ancients predicted, specifically Egpytians, God was somehow nothing and everything which is Nature, everything including nothing, spacetime. Monism is accurate, reality is built by one universal substance, atoms. Carl Sagan's quote is right "We are the Cosmos experiencing itself [not the human experiencing the Cosmos]. I can try to show you if you want.
It was until after Galileo, that Isaac Newton thought gravity between the Sun and planets (including the Earth) were responsible for their motion. This squashed the long-held church views about angels.


and like @Quintessence said, the whole “Scientific Method“ is actually a modern approach for knowledge gathering and fact finding.
I agree with this point, there is something different about the science done by animals than by modern humans, specifically how much testing is done. But it's all observing, remembering and predicting, which is the scientific method. Therefore it is Science.
 

ChieftheCef

Well-Known Member
Not at all.
Jehovah is the ultimate decision maker.
"For Jehovah is our Judge,
Jehovah is our Lawgiver,
Jehovah is our King;
He is the One who will save us."
Isaiah 33:22
If he decide the flip of the coin then he, able to have made the universe pristine and pure as he alleges it to have been, then how can you worship such a monster who perpetrates great injustices to even you? BEcause he is just imagination, he's figmatory. He's an offshoot from an original pantheon.
 

ChieftheCef

Well-Known Member
It's not about losing the argument. 1. God is the Judge over all, and 2. Death and sorrow will be no more. Life will be joyful. Anything in opposition to that is no longer sustainable as I ponder over what people say.
Now you're just postulating for your weak sanity. Grow some hair, get off God.
Therefore...we each have our own journey. Jesus said, “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—" John 10:14
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
So?! You're just prejudice against people from older times. You think they're stupid. Everything knowledge is somehow a science. There's science that is based on observation for any well trusted knowledge.
I agree there is a prejudice against indigenous science by modern, Western science. That said, broadening our understanding of what science is to include indigenous science is controversial, and with at least some good reason. Expanding how we classify science to include basically any and all systematic observation of our environment ends up classifying things that we don't think of as science... sa now science. It would end up making all pseudoscience... science. It would also end up making things like art... science. I just got done doing another illustration - careful observation of the environment and recording the results - but this is not science, per our modern Western conception of it.

Personally, I tend to be more liberal in my understanding of science to be more in line with how you are describing things, but when I've worked as a scientist, I have reigned that in because it is at odds with how modern science is understood by the scientific community. You will not be taken very seriously as a researcher of you play too loosey goosey with what science is. Whether or not this is a good thing is an interesting thing to debate and in the present cultural context of scientific illiteracy, anti-science rhetoric, and denialism... it makes that discussion more complicated than it would be otherwise.
 

ChieftheCef

Well-Known Member
I agree there is a prejudice against indigenous science by modern, Western science. That said, broadening our understanding of what science is to include indigenous science is controversial, and with at least some good reason. Expanding how we classify science to include basically any and all systematic observation of our environment ends up classifying things that we don't think of as science... sa now science. It would end up making all pseudoscience... science.
I understand now. Thank you. Have a pleasant day.
It would also end up making things like art... science. I just got done doing another illustration - careful observation of the environment and recording the results - but this is not science, per our modern Western conception of it.

Personally, I tend to be more liberal in my understanding of science to be more in line with how you are describing things, but when I've worked as a scientist, I have reigned that in because it is at odds with how modern science is understood by the scientific community. You will not be taken very seriously as a researcher of you play too loosey goosey with what science is. Whether or not this is a good thing is an interesting thing to debate and in the present cultural context of scientific illiteracy, anti-science rhetoric, and denialism... it makes that discussion more complicated than it would be otherwise.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If he decide the flip of the coin then he, able to have made the universe pristine and pure as he alleges it to have been, then how can you worship such a monster who perpetrates great injustices to even you? BEcause he is just imagination, he's figmatory. He's an offshoot from an original pantheon.
I know what I know and do not agree with your assessment of things. Have a good one.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It is not, to my knowledge anyway. Science as the process of sciencing, taking each individual bit of information for a

It's very likely they used science. They observed reeds floating and began to guess that they could ride enough reeds put together.

So?! You're just prejudice against people from older times. You think they're stupid. Everything knowledge is somehow a science. There's science that is based on observation for any well trusted knowledge.

The ancients predicted, specifically Egpytians, God was somehow nothing and everything which is Nature, everything including nothing, spacetime. Monism is accurate, reality is built by one universal substance, atoms. Carl Sagan's quote is right "We are the Cosmos experiencing itself [not the human experiencing the Cosmos]. I can try to show you if you want.

I agree with this point, there is something different about the science done by animals than by modern humans, specifically how much testing is done. But it's all observing, remembering and predicting, which is the scientific method. Therefore it is Science.
The definition of science, as many other words, has changed over the years, but during your lifetime science is knowledge that is acquired by using the scientific method.

That means that one observes, forms a hypothesis, and that has to be a proper scientific hypothesis which means that it is falsifiable. That is key. If you do not have an explanation that cannot be tested then one is only doing pseudoscience. And a hypothesis is tested by the predictions that it makes. In other words one must have a test that says: My hypothesis says that we should observe A, if we observe B instead it is wrong. And then one has to publish ones results, and they need to be verry detailed results, so that others can reproduce one's work to see if it is right or not.


So one can use rational thought to come to a conclusion, but that does not necessarily mean that they used "science".
 
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