life must be elsewise than a physic.
I don't agree.
The universe is physical. Therefore anything and everything within it, is physical.
Just a random question: What do you think energy is?
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life must be elsewise than a physic.
What makes order more valuable than disorder?
I don't separate order from disorder. Though other people do.
Well, DUH! If you agree that you are intelligent, and that you emerged from The Universe, and that there is no separation between you and The Universe, then The Universe must be intelligent.
If there were no conscious observer to observe the universe, would the universe exist or not?
I'm not actually looking for an answer: Rather... If it DOES exist independently of the observer, then consciousness has nothing to do with it.
And there would be no intelligence involved.
now I see consciousness as fundamental to existence.
Here is my point, to the point. We dont have intelligence. We like to think we do, but as part of the universe not The Universe, we are made up of the same atoms and so forth just like any thing and any one else living and not.
If you really really want to use the world intelligence, the universe is pretty smart in learning how to make stars and planets. The birds are pretty smart in how they form when flying based on the weather. We are pretty smart in finding connections to live that in reality does not exist in and of themselves (we have a knack for making abstract things concecrete), and so forth.
It's not intelligence. That's an illusion. It's a human label to define the pattern and nature of something ordered compared to something that is not. I don't see why either or less valuable but I do see the universe is beautifully disordered. One becuase I try not to place definitions on what I do not know. Two, I'm an artist- what artist likes things written in stone.
We are NOT made of atoms as once thought; we are not 'made' at all. That is the old materialist paradigm, and you are still attached to it. We now know that what we call 'particles' are actually standing waves appearing as particles, as in 'virtual', being created via fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs Fields. IOW, we are ENERGY in ACTION.
Everything going in in our bodies is involved in some kind of ACTION, just as everything going on in The Universe is ACTION. The Universe is not composed of things. If you had studied your Buddhism and Zen, you would have come across a little teaching called 'Sunyata', which says that all phenomena is empty of self-nature, because what we call 'things' are all interconnected with everything else, and co-arises with everything else. This the the Buddhist Law of Dependent Origination. There are no such 'things' in reality. What you really are is conscious, intelligent energy manifested in a seemingly material body acting out a drama on this Earthly plane.
By intelligence I do not mean cleverness or being 'smart' as you think. It is far more compelling than that. Material reality is intelligence manifesting itself as material reality. You are the intelligence that is The Universe manifesting itself as 'Carlita', who is pretending she is not the Intelligence called 'Universe', in a cosmic game of Hide and Seek.
How is action intelligent?
.
Your personal view; your consciousness called 'I', is a sculpted consciousness that is not actually yours, but is being sculpted as 'you' by a Universal Consciousness.
That Universal Consciousness is none other than The Universe. IOW, what you are is a total action of The Universe, just as a wave is a total action of The Ocean.
The problem you are having is that you are distinguishing what you falsely think is 'my' consciousness in comparison to what you think to be an unconscious Universe 'out there'.
This is further reinforced by the current scientific view that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain, and because The Universe does not seem to have a brain, it therefore is incapable of being conscious, let alone intelligent. This is the degree to which our consciousness has been conditioned.
When the conceptual discriminating mind comes to a complete halt, there no longer exists any distinction whatsoever between what we think of as 'self' and The Universe, in the same way that all distinction is dissolved when a drop of water becomes completely dissolved with the vast ocean, or as when dye is dissolved in water.
The conscious intelligence with which you see the world is none other than the world itself, but your thinking mind is always busy attempting to set up conceptual barriers between you and the world in a way that says: 'I am an intelligent observer over here, observing a dead Universe 'out there'. False. You are The Universe looking at itself through your eyes. Therefore, The Universe, which is you, is intelligent. See?
You seem to have difficulty understanding just about everything I say to you. Do you have a comprehension issue?
A kind of knowing is behind a caterpillar traveling along, moving all it's legs in unison, but without thought in doing so. The rhythmic movement and the knowing behind it are one and the same. There is not the knowing over here and the movement over there. Only the thinking mind sees them as two different things.
Yes. Actually, I do. I have Epilepsy. However, your words are very metaphysical and I don't understand (seizures or not) the concept of spirituality other than spirits of deceased people and the energy sustaining life. Outside of that, spiritual experiences are regular experiences. Nothing special to them in the wide-sense of the term.
Yes. Actually, I do. I have Epilepsy. However, your words are very metaphysical and I don't understand (seizures or not) the concept of spirituality other than spirits of deceased people and the energy sustaining life. Outside of that, spiritual experiences are regular experiences. Nothing special to them in the wide-sense of the term.
It's just life. Why The Universe? I see why we give value to what you call intelligence but many of you raise it to a god-like point of view (caps is one way to do so, some people say The Cosmos). I find that unnecessary.
I don't think metaphysics is necessarily spiritual. I think we're actually using metaphysics in common parlance when talking about stuff like consciousness and the universe in themselves. I say they are metaphysical concepts, or at best, philosophical ones.
We are after all talking about composite concepts, "soiled" by human subjectivity. I.E we all have our separate opinions of it.
Exactly why I am trying to get people to SEE what is, rather than conceptualize it.
Reality is beyond philosophy and metaphysics.
It is not a matter of opinion.
Those are just possible pathways toward Reality, but there is a jumping off point.
This was the lesson of the Raft Sutra, in which the Buddha asked his monks whether they should leave the raft behind after they reached the other shore, the raft being a metaphor for the teaching.
Were you to attempt to photosynthesize your own food, an action, would any intelligence be necessary on your part? Even if you could do it automatically as a blade of grass can do, you would still have an initial setup of all parameters and requirements. IOW, you would have to program it, which requires intelligence.
I will say it again, and if you don't get it, that is unfortunate: the action and the intelligence are one and the same. Can you SEE that, or not? The question you should be looking at is not whether the action is intelligent or not, but whether the notion that there exists an agent of action is the case.
You notice that I use the word 'That' with a capital T, indicating that it is The Absolute.
We are NOT made of atoms as once thought; we are not 'made' at all. That is the old materialist paradigm, and you are still attached to it. We now know that what we call 'particles' are actually standing waves appearing as particles, as in 'virtual', being created via fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs Fields. IOW, we are ENERGY in ACTION. Everything going on in our bodies is involved in some kind of ACTION, just as everything going on in The Universe is ACTION. The Universe is not composed of things. If you had studied your Buddhism and Zen, you would have come across a little teaching called 'Sunyata', which says that all phenomena is empty of self-nature, because what we call 'things' are all interconnected with everything else, and co-arises with everything else. This the the Buddhist Law of Dependent Origination. There are no such 'things' in reality. What you really are is conscious, intelligent energy manifested in a seemingly material body acting out a drama on this Earthly plane.
By intelligence I do not mean cleverness or being 'smart' as you think. It is far more compelling than that. Material reality is intelligence manifesting itself as material reality. You are the intelligence that is The Universe manifesting itself as 'Carlita', who is pretending she is not the Intelligence called 'Universe', in a cosmic game of Hide and Seek.
True, it IS just life, but it is not just life, if you get my gist, which I don't think you do. Maybe you need more time to grow spiritually. Here is how Zen sees it:
I don't think you are qualified to do that though. At least not yet. You are still mistaking first steps as the end of the journey. I think you've only recently learned to abandon concepts, and think that's all there is to it.
Incorrect.
You live within a conceptualized society. In order for you to function as a CONSTRUCTIVE part of said society, rather than destructive, you need to work within its existing parameters. Otherwise you are taking short cuts and that might lead to more suffering. I simply do not think your method of "teaching" is correct, or constructive enough.
Way too many assumptions taken as is with you. You make claims and assertions that haven't been proven logically, or evidenced by known phenomena. You believe too much...
Reality is relative. And not beyond concepts.
Every single mental fabrication you construct is always a matter of opinion. You cannot know directly.
Everything is impermanent. Remember it. Even your eventual... "reward" will be. For you to cling onto the idea of permanence is bound to end up with more suffering.
The raft is a metaphor for concepts actually. For you to abandon the "raft," you have to have a raft in the first place. You are using concepts to come to an eventual conclusion. It's necessary. But in the end, the raft(concepts) must be abandoned.
But again, everything is impermanent. Your abandoning of the raft therefore is as well. You might still actually need it later.
The parable is used as an example of "right effort." A balanced approach. Neither over-exert, or under-exert. Exert only as much as is necessary.
And from what i gather, you seem to think that you've used enough effort, and no longer need to; That you are done, ready to give your full knowledge to others. I don't see this as true... Sorry.
Again, everything is impermanent.
/E: I don't think right effort ever ceases. You don't get to "stop" working towards the common good and imagine yourself to be on a pedestal. The work is never complete. It's impermanent. You are now under-exerting and working on belief and short cuts, and have stopped looking for more answers. You hold the view that you are done. But everything is impermanent. A human mind even more so.
I feel that you are clinging to permanence, and permanent ideas. You assert too much. You make absolute statements. That's folly.