Question to Christians: is Jesus Yahweh?

[Jeremiah Ames]

In the theology of orthodox Trinitarian Christianity (bearing in mind that 99% of Christians adhere to the Nicene Creed), the answer would be "yes".

Jesus is understood to be the incarnation of the God of Abraham, the biblical creator who spoke through the prophets of the Tanakh and whose proper name (the Tetragrammaton) was revealed as YHWH to Moses on Mount Sinai, according to the account in Exodus.

An established exegetical paradigm can be seen in a number of verses in the New Testament, whereby the sacred author quotes or alludes to something in the Tanakh which originally referred to YHWH, and instead applies it to Jesus.

A great example of this practice is from Hebrews 1:10-12, which quotes Psalm 102:25-27.

The original text is a hymn addressed to YHWH (Adonai Elohim, the Lord God: "But you, O Lord [YHWH] are enthroned forever" [verse 12]) but the New Testament writer transposes it directly onto Jesus, and reads it as being about his eternal role as creator of the universe:

"8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

10 And,

“In the beginning, Lord, you founded the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like clothing;
12 like a cloak you will roll them up,
and like clothing they will be changed.
But you are the same,
and your years will never end.”"

(Hebrews 1: 8-12)
​

In this way, a passage clearly and indisputably about YHWH (the Lord) in the original Hebrew Psalm, has been applied to Jesus, the incarnation of the 'Wisdom/Word' of God, whom the text describes as having pre-existed with the Father before the creation of the World, in the exact same terms as God (as "the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature" (Hebrews 1:3).

In the theology of orthodox Trinitarian Christianity (bearing in mind that 99% of Christians adhere to the Nicene Creed), the answer would be "yes".

i am going to throw out some ideas that come to me, after reading the history of “orthodox Trinitarian Christianity” coupled with my limited understanding of the Bible:

(just my musings, nothing to get to excited about)

Isaiah 29:13-16 comes to mind where the Lord speaks regarding people who follow the ‘teachings of men’. Even if the OT is of no relevance to Christianity, Jesus (aka the Lord) speaks the same concept in Matthew 15:8-9.
I cannot imagine a single person in the “99% of Christians” you speak of, would ever consider the Lord may possibly be talking to them.
What do you think?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Question to christians: do you believe jesus is Yahweh\YHWH?

Of course.

 

[firedragon]

Many christians believe Jesus is God (Yahweh/YHWH) because they believe Jesus has the same substance/being as God the Father. So they believe the Father, Jesus and Holy spirit share the same divine Being. That God is only one Being shared by three persons

Thats actually not quite right. The orthodox definition of the trinity is that they are not the same being, they are three but with one ousia. One essence if I may. Jesus is not YHWH, Holy Spirit is not YHWH or Jesus.

Saying Jesus is YHWH is supposed to be a heresy called sabellianism.

This is the athanasian creed. But some forget.

 

[lukethethird]

Question to Christians: is Jesus Yahweh?

Try calling Him, see if He answers to one or both.

 

[firedragon]

Question to Christians: is Jesus Yahweh?

Try calling Him, see if He answers to one or both.

So you believe Jesus is still alive?

 

[lukethethird]

So you believe Jesus is still alive?

Not if He answers to neither.

 

[firedragon]

Not if He answers to neither.

But to call him today, he has to be alive right? After 2000 years or more?

 

[alypius]

Question to christians: do you believe jesus is Yahweh\YHWH?

Why was Jesus condemned to death in St John's Gospel?

 

[Colt]

Question to christians: do you believe jesus is Yahweh\YHWH?

No! Yahweh was the name of nature God of the Sini volcano that the Israelites adopted as the name for their God during their time in the region. To the Jews, Elohim was the God of gods, while Yahweh was the God of Israel. As Judaism evolved the names for their God changed. Monotheism tended to eradicate "plural concepts" of deity. Jesus was/is the Son of God and has a different name in heaven. Since Yahweh was simply a name applied to God one could say that Jesus is a Son of Yahweh.

NOTE: When pressed by Moses "God" simply said my name is I AM. If God has a specific name we don't know what it is.

 

[viole]

I'm confused. How can people believe that the Father, Jesus and the Holy spirit are different persons and at the same time also believe that Jesus and the Holy spirit share the same Being as the Father? How does that work?

It doesn't.

For starters, believing that Jesus is God would violate one of the commandments that you should not show images of God. Not even a third thereof. Unlike most Christians, who like to show pictures of Jesus all over the place.

Trinitarianism was just a compromise coming from a meeting a long time ago. And it is still orthodoxy because the ones who disagreed have been burned at the stake.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

Question to christians: do you believe jesus is Yahweh\YHWH?

Yes, and as a Jew, it was hard for me to accept a man is also God.

Jesus died on the cross, GOD dying for all, He rose for all. A mere man could not affect salvation (as the Bible says) without being God.

 

[metis]

It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus and God are two different entities.

I guess that boils down to how one may define "different". For example, Jesus said that he and the Father are one. Now, how one interprets "one" in this context can be variable, correct?

IMO, a possible key to understanding is the early Church's use of the Greek concept of "essence":
Essence. What does essence mean? As I said earlier, it means the same thing as being. God’s essence is his being. To be even more precise, essence is what you are. At the risk of sounding too physical, essence can be understood as the “stuff” that you “consist of.” Of course we are speaking by analogy here, for we cannot understand this in a physical way about God. “God is spirit” (John 4:24). Further, we clearly should not think of God as “consisting of” anything other than divinity. The “substance” of God is God, not a bunch of “ingredients” that taken together yield deity. -- What Is the Doctrine of the Trinity?

 

[metis]

Trinitarianism was just a compromise coming from a meeting a long time ago. And it is still orthodoxy because the ones who disagreed have been burned at the stake.

Not entirely correct.

Because of disputes within the Church and the challenge of "heretical" churches, the Nicene Council was called in the 4th century, and over 1000 bishops were called in. Their decision led to the Nicene Creed, which indeed did involve some compromise to bring in those within Arianism, so there is a bit if an inconsistency within the Creed.

OTOH, the burning at the stake was really more of a Reformation-time thingy, and the Protestants reciprocated with their own methods of retribution. However, I do not use that as being any defense of the CC.

 

[74x12]

Question to christians: do you believe jesus is Yahweh\YHWH?

Yes the Tetragrammaton. One and the same.

 

[1213]

Question to christians: do you believe jesus is Yahweh\YHWH?

David says in the Bible:

A Psalm of David. The LORD [=Yahweh] said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Ps. 110:1

I believe Jesus is the lord that sits at Yahweh’s right hand and therefore not Yahweh himself.

 

[pearl]

Whether one believes the Trinity or Modalism, both these are hard to understand in context of certain verses in the Bible.

What it most difficult is our modern concept of 'person' doesn't fit with the ancient concept.

In Christology the second source from which theology once again used the word persona to help it out of a dilemma and presented a new task for the human mind. "Who and what is this Christ?" was answered by theology with the formula; He has two natures and one person, a divine and a human nature, but only a Divine Person. And so the word persona appears again here, and this statement has been the object of terrible misunderstandings by the Western mentality and that these must first be dispelled in order to arrive at the actual meaning of the christological concept of person. An initial misunderstanding, which has in fact occurred again and again and still does, is to understand the statement "Christ has only one, namely, a Divine Person" as a diminution of the wholeness of Jesus humanity. It is all too easy to think; Personhood is the highest, most characteristic summit of humanity; it is lacking in Jesus; therefore humanity is not present in him in its entirety. The notion that there is a deficit of humanity in his case has become the point of departure for a great variety of falsifications, and, also of many aberrations. The fact that nothing is subtracted here from what is human in Jesus has been achieved bit by bit through debates in the history of dogma; for there were always new attempts to show that something was cut off somewhere. First Arianism and Apollinarism maintained that Christ had no human soul; Monophysitism denied that he had a human nature, and after refuted, weakened forms appeared. Monotheletism says that Christ did have everything except a human will (which is the core of the personality). After refuted Monenergism appeared, claiming that Christ did have a human will but not the exercise of that will, which was accomplished by God. All of these are attempts to situate the concept of person somewhere in the inventory of the mind.

excerpts Dogma and Preaching

 

[Starlight]

Yes, and as a Jew, it was hard for me to accept a man is also God.

Jesus died on the cross, GOD dying for all, He rose for all. A mere man could not affect salvation (as the Bible says) without being God.

Do you believe in the trinity or modalism?

 

[Sand Dancer]

In my understanding christians who believe in the trinity do believe the Father, Jesus and Holy spirit is different persons. But they believe also that Jesus and the Holy spirit share the same Being as the Father.

What you describe is modalism. Modalism believe that the Father, Jesus and Holy spirit is not three persons, but only one person who has manifested himself to humans in three different ways. So modalism is the belief that God is one person and only one Being who manifested himself in three different ways

That has been an issue since Jesus died. Just depends on the sect.

 

[Psalm23]

What it most difficult is our modern concept of 'person' doesn't fit with the ancient concept.

In Christology the second source from which theology once again used the word persona to help it out of a dilemma and presented a new task for the human mind. "Who and what is this Christ?" was answered by theology with the formula; He has two natures and one person, a divine and a human nature, but only a Divine Person. And so the word persona appears again here, and this statement has been the object of terrible misunderstandings by the Western mentality and that these must first be dispelled in order to arrive at the actual meaning of the christological concept of person. An initial misunderstanding, which has in fact occurred again and again and still does, is to understand the statement "Christ has only one, namely, a Divine Person" as a diminution of the wholeness of Jesus humanity. It is all too easy to think; Personhood is the highest, most characteristic summit of humanity; it is lacking in Jesus; therefore humanity is not present in him in its entirety. The notion that there is a deficit of humanity in his case has become the point of departure for a great variety of falsifications, and, also of many aberrations. The fact that nothing is subtracted here from what is human in Jesus has been achieved bit by bit through debates in the history of dogma; for there were always new attempts to show that something was cut off somewhere. First Arianism and Apollinarism maintained that Christ had no human soul; Monophysitism denied that he had a human nature, and after refuted, weakened forms appeared. Monotheletism says that Christ did have everything except a human will (which is the core of the personality). After refuted Monenergism appeared, claiming that Christ did have a human will but not the exercise of that will, which was accomplished by God. All of these are attempts to situate the concept of person somewhere in the inventory of the mind.

excerpts Dogma and Preaching

I affirm both Jesus’ divine nature and his humanity.

 

[pearl]

In the theology of orthodox Trinitarian Christianity (bearing in mind that 99% of Christians adhere to the Nicene Creed), the answer would be "yes".

Interestingly, the word Trinity is not found in the Creed. The Church explains this as the Trinity is not a doctrine along with other doctrines, the Trinitarian dogma is the central dogma of the Church on which all other doctrine is rooted.

language has broadened its compass in the continuous explicative endeavours of the human spirit. Because of this, the presuppositions for the understanding of dogma are different now. And so we are obliged to penetrate anew, in language and concept, what the patristic dogmas truly signify. has broadened its compass in the continuous explicative endeavours of the human spirit. Because of this, the presuppositions for the understanding of dogma are different now. And so we are obliged to penetrate anew, in language and concept, what the patristic dogmas truly signify.
THE THEOLOGY OF JOSEPH RATZINGER: An Introductory Study by Fr Aidan Nichols OP (christendom-awake.org)