Questions about worshipping Vishnu

[Chakra]

.Comparing Sriman Narayana and Lord Shiva. They are both incomparable (i.e., if they are not one and the same).

The point was that Hari and Krishna are the exact same in Vaishnavism (there is absolutely no difference), while Shiva and Krishna are not the exact same (or equal, for a lack of a better word). Thus, Southern Vaishnavism (Ramanuja and Madhva) and Northern Vaishnavism (Chaitanya, Vallabha, and Nimbarka) did not argue a lot over this. If a Hindu sect started saying that Jesus was the Supreme Lord of the Vedas according to Vaishnavism, then obviously there would be a lot of debate.

 

[Andal]

Ritual procedures are for human benefit Bhagavan does not need such things. This is why in the Gita the Lord says even a leaf offered with love is acceptable. There is a big difference between offering a flower to the image of the Lord at home and a multi day yajna or a grand aarti in Tirupati. Us humans may think that one is better than the other because of the level of ritual piety. I do not believe the Lord makes such distinctions. It is about love.

So don't fear Axlyz. Besides do you think you have enough power really to disturb Sri Keshava?

I'm with Aupji, I have always been less formal in that the images I keep on my home altar have not had pranapratishta performed.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Poeticus]

Here's Lord Shri Rama being bored:

 

[Sirona]

As others have noted- Vishnu and Krishna are one in the same. The only difference I see is in mood. Worship of Krishna is a different mood from worship of Vishnu.

Could you elaborate this a bit? I'd like to know more about the differences in mood. Thanks.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Andal will give you a better reply. But Vishnu is serene while Krishna is smart and naughty; Rama is the dutiful.

It is good to follow rituals even if superficially (at least one is doing that). It is good to remember Lord's name (even if one is not intitiated and is doing it in a hurry). The Lord's name will have its own effects.

"Bolo re bhai Bum, bolo re bhai bum, bolo re bhai bum Bhole" Slogan for Shiva.

 

[Poeticus]

It is misleading to correlate the offering of a flower, during expressions related purely to bhakti, with a traditional yajna procession. Or rather ... to qualify the two in terms of comparison. The BG is a bhaktic scripture, it is not of the karmakanda. Therefore, it is more of the lay-Hindu, so to speak. If one were to go full-out traditional, however, then the yajna would surely be primordial since we would be working directly with shruti-derived ordinances. However, such processions are restricted, or rather confined, only to a select-few---understandably.

Also, I have made many posts regarding the mechanicalism of the adhiyajna facets of dharma but feel that it would be suited to restate the point once more: the lack of emotional connection during the conduction of a yajna is perfectly a-okay. And more importantly, yajna-s are not "conducted for God"---that is not how they work. Furthermore, they are not entirely for human benefit. For example, the proper utterance of the mantra-s assist in retaining the significance and meaning of shabda. This, in turn, helps the vibrations act in equilibrium with things around us. And ultimately, it directly reverberates with the maintaining of rta.

In other words, we must, as per Hindu tradition, be able to separate bhaktic lines of thought from those of the karmakanda. I only write this because I get the feeling that the two are being conflated into realms that are outside their jurisdiction. It seems, as per my observations, that the "flower verse", as I'd like to call it, has been used to justify offerings of any, although passive, kind in order to give them equal footing with elaborate yajna-s. Such conflation, in my frank opinion, seems both too hasty and haughty. Instead of blurring the lines to derive some sort of justification for the actions the devoted undertake to honor their deva-s and devi-s, it would be more productive and honest to understand what the different purposes are for the varying forms or methods for ritualistic or devotional approaches.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Sur ki gati main kya janu, sirf bhajan karna janu."

English translation

sur ki gati main kyaa janu
ek bhajan karna janu

arth bhajan ka bhi ati gehraa
usko bhi main kyaa janu
prabhu prabhu prabhu karna janu
naina jal bharna janu

gun gaaye prabhu nyaay na chhode
phir kyun tum gun gaate ho
main bola main prem deewaana
itni baaten kyaa janu

sur ki gati main kyaa janu
ek bhajan karna janu

I do not know the twist of the tune
I know only to sing a hymn

The meaning of the hymn is very deep (they say)
I do not know that
I know only to say Lord, Lord, Lord
I know to fill eyes with tears

The lord will not abandon justice even with praise (they say)
Then why do you sing his praises
I said I am madly in love
I do not know all these things

I do not know the twist of the tune
I know only to sing a hymn

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

In other words, we must, as per Hindu tradition, be able to separate bhaktic lines of thought from those of the karmakanda.

Perhaps you might reconsider your opinion if you refer the dhatu (root) for the term yagna.
श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Aupmanyav]

Another bhajan (Anoop Jalota) and English translation:

Jinke hridaya Harinaam base,
Tin aur ka naam liya na liya.

Jin kaam kiya parmartha ka,
Tin haath se daan diya na diya.

Jin mata-pita ki seva ki,
Tin teerath dham kiya na kiya.

Those who have the name of Hari in their hearts
What if they have taken any other name or not

Those who have done good work for others
What if they have not given money in charity

Those who have served their parents
What if they have not gone to temples and pilgrimages

 

[Acintya_Ash]

Could you elaborate this a bit? I'd like to know more about the differences in mood. Thanks.

To develop love, saints have stressed to forming a close personal relationship with Krishna through a Bhava -- a particular quality of love, expressed in a style of relationship. These are:

• Shant bhava -- loving God as a supreme governor
• Dasya bhava -- loving God as a master
• Sakhya bhava -- loving God as your close friend
• Vatsalya bhava --loving God as your child
• Madhurya bhava -- loving God as your beloved

Read More: Jai Radhe Jai Krishna Jai Vrindavan: Sadhana Bhakti - Five types of relationships with God

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

 

[Andal]

Namaskar Poeticus,

I agree that there is conflating going on especially since I come from a bhakti line that uses ritual to deepen that connection. This is not to devalue the yajna and puja practice as they do serve a very important functions in the continuation of our world. That is what I meant by saying they are for humans (they are for our benefit) and And in my view these are best left to the professional priests who are knowledgeable and skilled in such areas.

In terms of home worship and blessings, in the bhakti tradition there is not so much need for strict procedures as it is more a spontaneous gesture of love toward God. Everyone seems to have their own way of performing puja to home deities.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Andal]

Could you elaborate this a bit? I'd like to know more about the differences in mood. Thanks.

Both Aupji and Acintya are correct as to my meaning.

On a very basic level the worship feels very different. Worship of Krishna is very ecstatic, lots of singing and dancing and high energy. While worship of Sri Vishnu has a deep sense of mystery and awe.

Of course that is not to say it always plays out this way. It is just my experience and generalization of it.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Poeticus]

Perhaps you might reconsider your opinion if you refer the dhatu (root) for the term yagna.
श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

But think about it, homie: to "enamor", "adore", or be "desirous to honor by consecrating", though synonymous with devotion, through shabda-related approaches would denote methods that are structured and organized, instead of freely engaging in acts that do not abide by protocols of the brAhmaNa-s.

In terms of home worship and blessings, in the bhakti tradition there is not so much need for strict procedures as it is more a spontaneous gesture of love toward God. Everyone seems to have their own way of performing puja to home deities.

Agreed. That is the beauty of the bhaktic traditions. They are for the devoted, and the devoted are not confined to a particular community or locality in their search to bask in the glories and comfort of their chosen and adored deity.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram prabhu ji's

AFAIK, Sriman Narayana is more compassionate with Lakshmi Maa around. When Sri Rama was with Sita Maa, he didn't fight, but he protected and forgave. When Sri Rama was not with Sita Maa, then he destroyed the Asuras.
It is also not possible to separate the two.

jai jai this is most certainly so , ...in Gaudiya tradition it is said thet the way to Krsna's heart is through Radha , ...but in truth yes they are inseperably one although in lila they may appear momentarily to be sepperate entities , ....
although intruth they are one , Laksmi Devi is the creative aspect of Visnu , ......
thus as Bhu Devi she is mother earth , the divine mother of Sita mata and as Sri Devi she is Lakshmi the bestower of auspiciosness and wealth , together Bhu Devi and Sri Devi are the auspicious bestowers of both life it self and the material and spiritual needs we require to fulfill our purpose of realising and serving the Supreme .

 

[Chakra]

namaskaram prabhu ji's



jai jai this is most certainly so , ...in Gaudiya tradition it is said thet the way to Krsna's heart is through Radha , ...but in truth yes they are inseperably one although in lila they may appear momentarily to be sepperate entities , ....
although intruth they are one , Laksmi Devi is the creative aspect of Visnu , ......
thus as Bhu Devi she is mother earth , the divine mother of Sita mata and as Sri Devi she is Lakshmi the bestower of auspiciosness and wealth , together Bhu Devi and Sri Devi are the auspicious bestowers of both life it self and the material and spiritual needs we require to fulfill our purpose of realising and serving the Supreme .

Don't forget Nila devi

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

But think about it, homie: to "enamor", "adore", or be "desirous to honor by consecrating", though synonymous with devotion, through shabda-related approaches would denote methods that are structured and organized, instead of freely engaging in acts that do not abide by protocols of the brAhmaNa-s.

Fully agree. But my question was given this

"enamor", "adore", or be "desirous to honor by consecrating"

is it possible to hold

the lack of emotional connection during the conduction of a yajna is perfectly a-okay.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Aupmanyav]

Both Aupji and Acintya are correct as to my meaning.

Andal and others, no 'ji' for Aup. Aup really does not deserve it. That is reserved for Ratiben. She would address even a monkey by calling it a 'ji'. (But why did I say 'even for a monkey'. Is it not Brahman?)

 

[Andal]

One of these days Aupji I'll get you're name correct... till then you'll have to be Brahman

 

[Aupmanyav]

What exists is one, there is no second (at least in my philosophy, I cannot be any other).
'vacharambhanam vikaro namadheyam' (others are only a difference in saying the name)

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Sur ki gati main kya janu, sirf bhajan karna janu."

This is especially for Poeticus.
Gujarati "Prem ki vat che nyari" (Love is a different matter)

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