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Questions for Christians

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
and one more question for you Mohamad,

All the prophets of the bible foretold the coming of the Messiah. The NT confirms the identity of the Messiah as Jesus. But Mohamad did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, nor did he talk about the Messiah and what the Messiah will do for mankind. What reason did Mohammad give for Jesus not being the Messiah?

Or, why was no Messiah mentioned in the Quran?
 

Mohamed

Member
the quran does in fact contradict the bible...it contradicts Jesus teachings and it contradicts the old testament. I do not believe that any book that contradicts the holy bible would have come from God. That is why I dont believe Mohammad is a prophet of God. He may have been a good and holy man as many are....but if he was sent by God, his teachings would show it and I dont believe they do.




i know it contradicts it,because bible contradicts itself sometimes,because you said that part of it was directly from god,and part was written from prophets expierince
and there are videos for many priests who converted to islam saying that bible changed over the time,and that it contradicts itself

so the important part,that islam believes in jesus as a prophet,not a normal prophet too,forexaple show what god says about jesus here

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not

so your main beliefs still exists



it could simply be a coincidence.

Im sure you realise that our names hold certain meanings. My name means 'salty water' ... Im sure i can find my name mentioned somewhere in the bible too, but it doesnt mean that it is me being personally being talked about.


Im sure that you believe that it is Mohammad being spoken of in the song of solomon so its not for me to question you. However, why only in the song of solomon? We see that the Messiah is mentioned throughout the entire bible...not only in one obscure reference, but he is spoken of in great depth in many books of the bible. If Mohammad was to be such an important figure, then why is this such an obscure reference?

And if Mohammad is the final prophet.... what of the Messiah? Does that mean the Messiah spoken of in the Hebrew scriptures is not going to rule the earth and bring all the nations into harmony with God? Or do you believe Mohammad is the Messiah??


Mohamed was the first one to be named Mohamed
and it's arabian name that wasn't known that time

and ofcourse the Messiah was much important that time,he was coming soon to save jews from what they suffered,and he was the miracle that prove that Zacharya,Omran,and all prophets betweeb Moses and jesus were really prophets from god,because jewish priests were calling them liars

and you know,Mohamed was something different,why??,Mohamed was a real surprise,a test from god to sons of israel,to jewish and christians,because he was arabian,jewish in arabian island were waiting for Mohamed,but they were waiting him to be one from them not from arabs,and that was the surprise,the test from god, they all believed he is Mohamed whom they were waiting,but they were arrogant and refused to follow him,they coudn't imagine that they could follow an arabian prophet at the end,god says about them

Those whom We have given the Book recognize him as they recognize their sons; (as for) those who have lost their souls, they will not believe

so Mohamed is a test for jewish and christians,who follows Messiah follows Mohamed







And if Mohammad is the final prophet.... what of the Messiah? Does that mean the Messiah spoken of in the Hebrew scriptures is not going to rule the earth and bring all the nations into harmony with God? Or do you believe Mohammad is the Messiah??


in islam,we believe that the Messiah wasn't killed,niether he died,but god raised him
quran says

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise


and we believe that he will come again to the earth
 

Mohamed

Member
and one more question for you Mohamad,

All the prophets of the bible foretold the coming of the Messiah. The NT confirms the identity of the Messiah as Jesus. But Mohamad did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, nor did he talk about the Messiah and what the Messiah will do for mankind. What reason did Mohammad give for Jesus not being the Messiah?

Or, why was no Messiah mentioned in the Quran?

how come
just read quran
the word Messiah told 8 time in quran,and many more times by his name (Esha means jesus) not sure about the spilling
and quran told about what he was able to make,but as god's power
quran says

And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe
I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me

you must read quran,it really tells very much about prophets before,and tells all details about what happened with them,and what they called for,and what thier miracles,and thier followers
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
in islam,we believe that the Messiah wasn't killed,niether he died,but god raised him
quran says

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise


and we believe that he will come again to the earth

Ok, i can certainly agree to what you are saying here. Although, Christs followers testified, and Jesus himself testified, that he certainly was killed. However, you correctly state that Jesus was raised. And this is also attested to in the scriptures...that Jesus was raised 'from the dead'

Perhaps what Mohammad meant was that they did not kill Jesus because Jesus was raised to life and therefore, at the time when Mohammad said this (700 years after Jesus death) Jesus was infact alive in the heavens as he is right now.


So Mohamed, tell me this. If Jesus is returning, as you say, Why should I follow Mohammad and not Jesus?
Because when Jesus returns, as you believe he will, he is coming to judge the nations. Do you know what he will be judging them by? Have you read the testimony of Christ as to why some people are judged adversely and some judged worthy of salvation by him? And if he is the one who is going to act as Gods executioner of the wicked, then shouldnt he be the one to follow and obey?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
how come
just read quran
the word Messiah told 8 time in quran,and many more times by his name (Esha means jesus) not sure about the spilling
and quran told about what he was able to make,but as god's power
quran says

And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe
I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me

you must read quran,it really tells very much about prophets before,and tells all details about what happened with them,and what they called for,and what thier miracles,and thier followers


Ah, so i have learnt something about the Quran which i did not know, thankyou.

Tell me this. Do you think the above verse from Quran is speaking about Jesus? Or is it speaking about Mohammad?
 

Mohamed

Member
Ok, i can certainly agree to what you are saying here. Although, Christs followers testified, and Jesus himself testified, that he certainly was killed. However, you correctly state that Jesus was raised. And this is also attested to in the scriptures...that Jesus was raised 'from the dead'

Perhaps what Mohammad meant was that they did not kill Jesus because Jesus was raised to life and therefore, at the time when Mohammad said this (700 years after Jesus death) Jesus was infact alive in the heavens as he is right now.


So Mohamed, tell me this. If Jesus is returning, as you say, Why should I follow Mohammad and not Jesus?
Because when Jesus returns, as you believe he will, he is coming to judge the nations. Do you know what he will be judging them by? Have you read the testimony of Christ as to why some people are judged adversely and some judged worthy of salvation by him? And if he is the one who is going to act as Gods executioner of the wicked, then shouldnt he be the one to follow and obey?


well,first we believe that all prophets called for the same belief (no god except Allah)
and when Messiah come to the earth again he will continue the same message,but on the Shari'a of quran,he will even pray like muslims,in fact he will dissapoint christians,he will consider Muslims as his followers,and Mohamed's followers
prophet Mohamed said :


By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (may peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill swine and abolish Jizya and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it.

notice that (cross) sings that jesus was cruified which is wrong

about that he should be (the one to follow and obey),we follow all prophets not (one)
of them,every for it's time.
and there is a time for every prophet,we don't do what appeals to us,god sends prophets with evidences and we have to follow
 

Mohamed

Member
Ah, so i have learnt something about the Quran which i did not know, thankyou.

Tell me this. Do you think the above verse from Quran is speaking about Jesus? Or is it speaking about Mohammad?


you are welcome :)

ofcourse it talks about jesus,here are the verses


When the angels said: O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones
She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.
d (make him) a messenger to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me
Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
you are welcome :)

ofcourse it talks about jesus,here are the verses


When the angels said: O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones
She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.
d (make him) a messenger to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me
Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.


my suspicion has been that Mohammad was not calling people to follow him, but to follow Jesus correctly. But you know what I believe happened....i believe that the later teachers of Quran focused so much on Mohammed that the muslims forgot that they were supposed to be following Jesus. And now it is Mohammad who Islam promotes as the one people must follow.

However, Jesus said this:
“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me.” John 14:6
Do you realise that NO prophet of the hebrew scriptures ever spoke words to this effect? The reason is because no prophet ever viewed himself as the means of approaching God.

So for Jesus to actually say that he is the only way to approach God, means that he must have been given authority to do so.
Notice that Jesus confirms that he was given such authority:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU

Only God can give Jesus this authority. And if he has given that authority to Jesus....What authority can be greater then this so that another prophet should come after Jesus and tell the world to follow after him?

this is why it is not logical for me to follow Mohammed no matter how righteous and good he may be. The one who has been given authority by God is Jesus Christ, the Messiah. It is only to him that we, all of us, should obey and i am convinced that Mohammad knew and believed that. but i feel that later teachers of Islam focused so much on Mohammad as a prophet, that they missed the point of Mohammads message to follow Jesus. If I am correct, I think Mohammad would be disappointed.
 

Mohamed

Member
my suspicion has been that Mohammad was not calling people to follow him, but to follow Jesus correctly. But you know what I believe happened....i believe that the later teachers of Quran focused so much on Mohammed that the muslims forgot that they were supposed to be following Jesus. And now it is Mohammad who Islam promotes as the one people must follow.

However, Jesus said this:
“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me.” John 14:6
Do you realise that NO prophet of the hebrew scriptures ever spoke words to this effect? The reason is because no prophet ever viewed himself as the means of approaching God.

So for Jesus to actually say that he is the only way to approach God, means that he must have been given authority to do so.
Notice that Jesus confirms that he was given such authority:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU

Only God can give Jesus this authority. And if he has given that authority to Jesus....What authority can be greater then this so that another prophet should come after Jesus and tell the world to follow after him?

this is why it is not logical for me to follow Mohammed no matter how righteous and good he may be. The one who has been given authority by God is Jesus Christ, the Messiah. It is only to him that we, all of us, should obey and i am convinced that Mohammad knew and believed that. but i feel that later teachers of Islam focused so much on Mohammad as a prophet, that they missed the point of Mohammads message to follow Jesus. If I am correct, I think Mohammad would be disappointed.


no,you just felt that because i sent you verses which talks about jesus
but there are such verses about Moses,Abraham,Houd,Younes,Nouh,Yakoub,Zakarya,Ishak,etc...

and for sure Mohamed,in fact he said (my translation because i didn't find one) :

i'm the lord of sons of Adam without arrogancy

but anyway,all prophets are brothers,and Mohamed is the last of this chain,if he is really a prophet,then everybody must believe in him,what if somebody said that Moses is enough and no need to jesus?!!,it's not our choice,it's god's choice to send whom he wants whenever he wants with his evidences,if you see that not enough evidences that Mohamed was a prophet,i will tell very little evidences but there are hundreds else

1-you said that Torah hold Mohamed's name but it was by chance!!
so the name of the only prophet after jesus whom billions of people folllowed is Mohamed by chance??!!!

2-no contradiction between jesus and Mohamed to disbelieve Mohamed
3-bible has changed so many things in it maybe wrong,it even contradicts itself sometimes because there are parts wich have changed

i have videos for big number of priests who say that

4- Psalm 84

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka,
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools

Pilgrimage and Baka!!!,you know,it's Maka,ofcourse you don't know but it came in quran Baka,just see,you can search ofcourse to make sure

quran says

3:96 The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings

the house (Ka'bba),i think you know it's where pilgrimage of muslims is

5-i told you that Messiah will return to the earth,but notice what Mohamed said

By Him in Whose hand is my life, the son of Mary (may peace be upon him) will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill swine and abolish Jizya and the wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it.

6-again,bible has changed,while quran never changed
and quran came after bible,wich one should be followed then?!
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
no,you just felt that because i sent you verses which talks about jesus
but there are such verses about Moses,Abraham,Houd,Younes,Nouh,Yakoub,Zakarya,Ishak,etc...

and for sure Mohamed,in fact he said (my translation because i didn't find one) :

i'm the lord of sons of Adam without arrogancy

but anyway,all prophets are brothers,and Mohamed is the last of this chain,if he is really a prophet,then everybody must believe in him,what if somebody said that Moses is enough and no need to jesus?!!

but you dont seem to understand the difference here. Moses wrote about the coming messiah...and Moses never stated that all the nations should follow him...he knew that the Messiah was the one all the nations must follow.

Every prophet of the bible wrote something about the Messiah who was coming. When he finally did arrive, there was no need for any more prophets to talk about the Messiah who was to come into the world because he had already been. and from that point on, the nations began to follow Jesus just as God had said they would. This is what God says about the Messiah through the mouth of Moses:
Gen 49:10 The scepter will not turn aside from Judah, neither the commander’s staff from between his feet, until Shi′loh comes; and to him the obedience of the peoples will belong

and from the mouth of Isaiah
Isaiah 11:10 And it must occur in that day that there will be the root of Jes′se that will be standing up as a signal for the peoples. To him even the nations will turn inquiringly

and from the apostle John who saw the nations following Jesus in prophetic vision: Revelation 7:9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.


,it's not our choice,it's god's choice to send whom he wants whenever he wants with his evidences,if you see that not enough evidences that Mohamed was a prophet,i will tell very little evidences but there are hundreds else

but why would God choose a Messiah, send him to the people, promise that the Messiah will lead them to salvation.... but then want the world to follow a different person who was not given the same authority and power as Jesus?

What can mohammad do for mankind that Jesus cannot???

Do you know what Jesus as the Messiah will do for mankind??? Have you read his testimony about his position and the reason for him coming???





I will come back to the rest of your post soon.
 
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Mark2020

Well-Known Member
1-you said that Torah hold Mohamed's name but it was by chance!!
so the name of the only prophet after jesus whom billions of people folllowed is Mohamed by chance??!!!

the old testament,song of songs,chapter 5,last verse

טז חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

the word in red
copy and paste it to any known dicitionary,from hebrew to english

and here is mohamed in arabic
محمد

These are typical Muslim lies trying to trick people and to find anything supporting their weak beliefs, which are shown to be weaker since they try desperately and through many lies to prove them.

First, why did you take only part of the Hebrew word, the word is מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים not מַחֲמַדִּ֑
Pronounciation: mahamadim, not mohammad.
Can you notice a difference?

Second, the meaning:
str.gif
beloved, desire, goodly, lovely, pleasant thing
From chamad; delightful; hence, a delight, i.e. Object of affection or desire -- beloved, desire, goodly, lovely, pleasant (thing).


Meaning of Mohammed: Praised (Muhammad (name) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Can you see a difference in the meaning?

Third, context:
16 חִכּוֹ֙ מַֽמְתַקִּ֔ים וְכֻלּ֖וֹ מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים

HebrewTransliterationStrong'sEnglish
חִכֹּו֙: chik ·kov2441 his mouth
מַֽמְתַקִּ֔ים : mam·tak·kim,4477 sweetness
וְכֻלֹּ֖ו : ve·chul·lov3605 is wholly
מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים : ma·cha·mad·dim;4261 desirable

Let's take: וְכֻלּ֖וֹ מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים
וְ: particle conjunction (meaning and)
כֻלּ֖ :noun common masculine singular construct (meaning all)
הוּא: וֹ pronoun suffixed 3rd person masculine singular (meaning him/of him)
מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים: noun common masculine plural absolute.

So it literally means: all of him is desirable.
Can you claim that the meaning would be: all of him is Muhammed?!

Whole verse:
His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my lover, this my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

Does this look like a prophecy on muhammed? It's not even a proper noun.

Fourth, how the Jews themselves, (who actually know Hebrew, not people who try to twist words to prove their own benefits) understand this:

From the Aramaic Targum to Song of Songs:
5:16 “The words of His palate are as sweet as honey, and all His commandments are more desirable to His sages than gold and silver. This is the praise of God, my Beloved, and this is the power of the strength of my Lord, my Beloved, O prophets who prophesy in Jerusalem.”

It is speaking of God as you see, this is how Jews perceive it.

And how they rendered it in the LXX:
16 His throat is most sweet, and altogether desirable.

Fifth, other occurrences of the word in the bible:
Isa 64:11
11 Our holy and glorious temple, where our fathers praised you, has been burned with fire, and all that we treasured lies in ruins.
בֵּ֧ית קָדְשֵׁ֣נוּ וְתִפְאַרְתֵּ֗נוּ אֲשֶׁ֤ר הִֽלְל֙וּךָ֙ אֲבֹתֵ֔ינוּ הָיָ֖ה לִשְׂרֵ֣פַת אֵ֑שׁ וְכָל־ מַחֲמַדֵּ֖ינוּ הָיָ֥ה לְחָרְבָּֽה
If you want to say that this word means Muhammed, then the verse would say: Muhammed lies in ruins!

2Chr 36:19
19 They set fire to God's temple and broke down the wall of Jerusalem; they burned all the palaces and destroyed everything of value there.
וַֽיִּשְׂרְפוּ֙ אֶת־ בֵּ֣ית הָאֱלֹהִ֔ים וַֽיְנַתְּצ֔וּ אֵ֖ת חוֹמַ֣ת יְרוּשָׁלִָ֑ם וְכָל־ אַרְמְנוֹתֶ֙יהָ֙ שָׂרְפ֣וּ בָאֵ֔שׁ וְכָל־ כְּלֵ֥י מַחֲמַדֶּ֖יהָ לְהַשְׁחִֽית
So Muhammed is burned and destroyed!!!

Lam 2:4
4 Like an enemy he has strung his bow; his right hand is ready. Like a foe he has slain all who were pleasing to the eye; he has poured out his wrath like fire on the tent of the Daughter of Zion.
4 דָּרַ֨ךְ קַשְׁתּ֜וֹ כְּאוֹיֵ֗ב נִצָּ֤ב יְמִינוֹ֙ כְּצָ֔ר וַֽיַּהֲרֹ֔ג כֹּ֖ל מַחֲמַדֵּי־ עָ֑יִן בְּאֹ֙הֶל֙ בַּת־ צִיּ֔וֹן שָׁפַ֥ךְ כָּאֵ֖שׁ חֲמָתֽוֹ
Mohammed is slain!!!:(

Sixth, if I show you a word the same as my name or my friend's name in the quran, does this means that quran is prophesying about us?!

For others:
✟*

2-no contradiction between jesus and Mohamed to disbelieve Mohamed
The person who says this knows nothing about quran or bible.

4- Psalm 84

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
whose hearts are set on pilgrimage.
6 As they pass through the Valley of Baka,
they make it a place of springs;
the autumn rains also cover it with pools

Pilgrimage and Baka!!!,you know,it's Maka,ofcourse you don't know but it came in quran Baka,just see,you can search ofcourse to make sure

quran says

3:96 The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings

the house (Ka'bba),i think you know it's where pilgrimage of muslims is
Too silly a claim to be replied to. If you understand arabic, you might want to check this:
[youtube]C5YeOqRcNOQ[/youtube]
‫
[youtube]mpiEO4Xf2C8[/youtube]
‫

For others, check:
http://islamexplained.com/

6-quran never changed
Again, wrong.
Check this:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2537923-post32.html

Please, if you want to discuss Islam, leave it for another thread.
Don't hijack this thread.
 
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Mohamed

Member


These are typical Muslim lies trying to trick people and to find anything supporting their weak beliefs, which are shown to be weaker since they try desperately and through many lies to prove them.






first,you talk indecentely and that's not the way to dicuss religious issues

second,Islam is the fastest growing religion so (to trick people and to find anything supporting their weak beliefs) isn't needed for us....







First, why did you take only part of the Hebrew word, the word is מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים not מַחֲמַדִּ֑
Pronounciation: mahamadim, not mohammad.



Second, the meaning:
beloved, desire, goodly, lovely, pleasant thing
From chamad; delightful; hence, a delight, i.e. Object of affection or desire -- beloved, desire, goodly, lovely, pleasant (thing).


Meaning of Mohammed: Praised (Muhammad (name) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Can you see a difference in the meaning?

.



Fifth, other occurrences of the word in the bible:
Isa 64:11
11 Our holy and glorious temple, where our fathers praised you, has been burned with fire, and all that we treasured lies in ruins.
בֵּ֧ית קָדְשֵׁ֣נוּ וְתִפְאַרְתֵּ֗נוּ אֲשֶׁ֤ר הִֽלְל֙וּךָ֙ אֲבֹתֵ֔ינוּ הָיָ֖ה לִשְׂרֵ֣פַת אֵ֑שׁ וְכָל־ מַחֲמַדֵּ֖ינוּ הָיָ֥ה לְחָרְבָּֽה
If you want to say that this word means Muhammed, then the verse would say: Muhammed lies in ruins!

2Chr 36:19
19 They set fire to God's temple and broke down the wall of Jerusalem; they burned all the palaces and destroyed everything of value there.
וַֽיִּשְׂרְפוּ֙ אֶת־ בֵּ֣ית הָאֱלֹהִ֔ים וַֽיְנַתְּצ֔וּ אֵ֖ת חוֹמַ֣ת יְרוּשָׁלִָ֑ם וְכָל־ אַרְמְנוֹתֶ֙יהָ֙ שָׂרְפ֣וּ בָאֵ֔שׁ וְכָל־ כְּלֵ֥י מַחֲמַדֶּ֖יהָ לְהַשְׁחִֽית
So Muhammed is burned and destroyed!!!

Lam 2:4
4 Like an enemy he has strung his bow; his right hand is ready. Like a foe he has slain all who were pleasing to the eye; he has poured out his wrath like fire on the tent of the Daughter of Zion.
4 דָּרַ֨ךְ קַשְׁתּ֜וֹ כְּאוֹיֵ֗ב נִצָּ֤ב יְמִינוֹ֙ כְּצָ֔ר וַֽיַּהֲרֹ֔ג כֹּ֖ל מַחֲמַדֵּי־ עָ֑יִן בְּאֹ֙הֶל֙ בַּת־ צִיּ֔וֹן שָׁפַ֥ךְ כָּאֵ֖שׁ חֲמָתֽוֹ
Mohammed is slain!!!

.




In fact you are the one who should notice that,as it's the sign that the word here is a (name) not (adj) as (im) is a plural of respect in Hebrew,even they say Elooh-im about the god,just chech it out,and it's the answer of your fifth point too,that here it's a name,I downloaded all these verses and listened to it, in song of songs is the only time it came like that Mohamed-im

And here is the link http://www.torahclass.com/audio-bible-in-hebrew
You can copy the word and search it here to find how many times it came,you will find it only came in song of songs,here is the link http://biblos.com/

 

Mohamed

Member
Sixth, if I show you a word the same as my name or my friend's name in the quran, does this means that quran is prophesying about us?!


if your friend already claimed to be a prophet ,and has more followers than all other religions , ofcourse that would be important sign of his prophecy

The person who says this knows nothing about quran or bible.

.


i was not talking about bible's view,i was talking about my view and Pegg's view,as he told me that he believes in one god and that Jesus is a prophet

this is a real probelm about christians,everybody is a case himself,you must talk to him much first to know his/her belief
Too silly a claim to be replied to. If you understand arabic, you might want to check this:
[youtube]C5YeOqRcNOQ[/youtube]
‫
[youtube]mpiEO4Xf2C8[/youtube]
‫

For others, check:
http://islamexplained.com/

Again, wrong.
Check this:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2537923-post32.html

Please, if you want to discuss Islam, leave it for another thread.
Don't hijack this thread.


i'm not going to watch anything,if it's silly claim,just answer it yourself,no need for more than 3 hours videos i think.


Please, if you want to discuss Islam, leave it for another thread.
Don't hijack this thread.


i'm discussing bible and jesus,how could that be in islam's thread?!
if i'm quating quran sometimes,that's because jesus is in quran
and if i'm discussing Mohamed sometimes,that's because Mohamed is in the bible.
 
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Mark2020

Well-Known Member


first,you talk indecentely and that's not the way to dicuss religious issues

second,Islam is the fastest growing religion so (to trick people and to find anything supporting their weak beliefs) isn't needed for us....


I've already shown conclusively that this claim is a lie. Why do they need to make such lies? That's just my opinion. When you make a lie to prove something, then your position isn't very good.


In fact you are the one who should notice that,as it's the sign that the word here is a (name) not (adj) as (im) is a plural of respect in Hebrew,even they say Elooh-im about the god,just chech it out,and it's the answer of your fifth point too,that here it's a name,I downloaded all these verses and listened to it, in song of songs is the only time it came like that Mohamed-im
Sorry, but that's just another lie you're told.
Elohim is a proper noun. It takes a singular verb, not a plural verb.
Proper nouns do not take plural of respect.
In Arabic, for example, if I want to respect you, I wouldn't say Mohameds.
I might say انتم محمد not انت محمدات
The (im) is normal plural, not plural of respect.
Again, let's take the Hebrew verse:
חִכּוֹ֙ מַֽמְתַקִּ֔ים וְכֻלּ֖וֹ מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים
Second word is מַֽמְתַקִּ֔ים ,mamtakkim (meaning sweets). The im is for plural. Is there a prophet called "Mamtakk"?!!!
Same for the fourth word, mahamadim. Plural for desire, meaning desires. The context is very clear and bears no twisting of words.
I'm not blaming you at all. I know that these are the sort of lies muslims are told by the likes of Deedat and other unfaithful scholars.



And here is the link http://www.torahclass.com/audio-bible-in-hebrew
You can copy the word and search it here to find how many times it came,you will find it only came in song of songs,here is the link http://biblos.com/
Again, you obviously know nothing about hebrew.
To search for a word, you use a concordance.
Here, I got it for you:
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Scroll to the bottom of the page, the words with red numbers above are the same word you mean.

Also check the lexicon on the same page:
image.cfm


I've already given you the pronunciation, same as the audio files. Even without the im, the pronunciation is different. No need to repeat that again.

If you're interested in listening to hebrew verses I've given, here :
http://www.aoal.org/Hebrew/AudioBible/33_Lamentations/33-Lamen_02.mp3
This is lamentations 2.
Fourth verse has the same word, I've given it to you in my previous post.
 
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Mark2020

Well-Known Member
i'm not going to watch anything,if it's silly claim,just answer it yourself,no need for more than 3 hours videos i think.
Just take any 5 minutes, Mr Wahid from Al Hayat channel gave too many evidences. Zaghlool el Naggar is shown to be just another big liar.

i'm discussing bible and jesus,how could that be in islam's thread?!
if i'm quating quran sometimes,that's because jesus is in quran
and if i'm discussing Mohamed sometimes,that's because Mohamed is in the bible.
In previous posts in this thread you discussed some islamic matters. It should be in a separate thread.
And I showed you he's NOT in the bible. Maybe under another wide category of false prophets, but not in the verse you pointed to. No offense.
 

Mohamed

Member
I've already shown conclusively that this claim is a lie. Why do they need to make such lies? That's just my opinion. When you make a lie to prove something, then your position isn't very good.


Sorry, but that's just another lie you're told.
Elohim is a proper noun. It takes a singular verb, not a plural verb.
Proper nouns do not take plural of respect.
In Arabic, for example, if I want to respect you, I wouldn't say Mohameds.
I might say انتم محمد not انت محمدات
The (im) is normal plural, not plural of respect.
Again, let's take the Hebrew verse:
חִכּוֹ֙ מַֽמְתַקִּ֔ים וְכֻלּ֖וֹ מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים
Second word is מַֽמְתַקִּ֔ים ,mamtakkim (meaning sweets). The im is for plural. Is there a prophet called "Mamtakk"?!!!
Same for the fourth word, mahamadim. Plural for desire, meaning desires. The context is very clear and bears no twisting of words.
I'm not blaming you at all. I know that these are the sort of lies muslims are told by the likes of Deedat and other unfaithful scholars.



Again, you obviously know nothing about hebrew.
To search for a word, you use a concordance.
Here, I got it for you:
Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Scroll to the bottom of the page, the words with red numbers above are the same word you mean.

Also check the lexicon on the same page:
image.cfm


I've already given you the pronunciation, same as the audio files. Even without the im, the pronunciation is different. No need to repeat that again.

no,i listened to the verses and i found it's the same pronuciation

If you're interested in listening to hebrew verses I've given, here :
http://www.aoal.org/Hebrew/AudioBible/33_Lamentations/33-Lamen_02.mp3
This is lamentations 2.
Fourth verse has the same word, I've given it to you in my previous post.


look,it's clear that our argument goes around (im)
sorry,but i didn't understand the difference between (Elloh) and (Mohamed),as Elooh
takes (im) for respect...
just explain it calmly
and i don't understand how you compare between Hebrew,English,and Arabic
every language is tottaly different

so in hebrew why Mohamed can't take (im) while Elooh takes it?

and i was saying search the word with the (im) and you will find it only came in song of songs chapter 5 like this,the rest is adj,similar to in Arabic in this point.and if it's a normal plural,how come it didn't come like that in the 13 times it came in the bible,i'm not sure that this word has a plural at all,it only has plural here because it's not a normal plural it's a plural of respect,or why it didn't come like that except here?!

and the context is not logic at all with this translation


16 His mouth is most sweet; yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem

they even put (yea) here because they found it illogic

and note that the previous 7 verses talks about somebody,and it's very logic to tell who is this at the end of description,or why he said (this is my beloved,and this is my friend) again except if he has named him!!!
 

Mark2020

Well-Known Member
look,it's clear that our argument goes around (im)
sorry,but i didn't understand the difference between (Elloh) and (Mohamed),as Elooh
takes (im) for respect...
just explain it calmly
and i don't understand how you compare between Hebrew,English,and Arabic
every language is tottaly different

so in hebrew why Mohamed can't take (im) while Elooh takes it?

and i was saying search the word with the (im) and you will find it only came in song of songs chapter 5 like this,the rest is adj,similar to in Arabic in this point.and if it's a normal plural,how come it didn't come like that in the 13 times it came in the bible,i'm not sure that this word has a plural at all,it only has plural here because it's not a normal plural it's a plural of respect,or why it didn't come like that except here?!

and the context is not logic at all with this translation


16 His mouth is most sweet; yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem

they even put (yea) here because they found it illogic

and note that the previous 7 verses talks about somebody,and it's very logic to tell who is this at the end of description,or why he said (this is my beloved,and this is my friend) again except if he has named him!!!

I've already replied to all that. There are just too much evidence for you.
Read my posts well. No need for me to repeat my words.
 
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Mohamed

Member
Just take any 5 minutes, Mr Wahid from Al Hayat channel gave too many evidences. Zaghlool el Naggar is shown to be just another big liar.


.


i heard alittle but i didn't find anything helpful
in fact they are talking about the arabic translation
they translated it valley of Boka'a (cry) but it's really funny thing because i'm talking about the main text not the arabic translation
even there is nothing called valley of cry but they just find nothing to do but this to avoid the truth in the arabic translation


anybody who say something you don't like is a liar?!!
i'm sorry but you are pathetic
 
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