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Questions for Christians

ryanam

Member
I didnt, the bible did.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, And as a watch during the night

2Peter 3:8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 9 Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient

If you live to be 100 years old, you will have lived for 2.3hours in Gods eyes.

You can work out the calculation in earth hours, by converting the 1000 years to the ratio first. 24hrs / 8,760,000 hrs = 2.73 e-6 (0.00000273). then multiplied by the above ratio to convert it to Gods time. IE, 100yrs = 100x365x24=876,000hrs x0.00000273 = 2.3hrs

it was only really 2 days ago that Jesus was on earth... 4 days earlier, Adam was created.

Wow... that's the most ridiculous attempt at combining science with religion I've ever seen.

I'm not talking about how many fractions of a minute god 'sees' in comparison to how we see it. I'm talking about the tens of thousands of actual years (that ACTUALLY happened) of human pain and suffering and god's indifference to it.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Wow... that's the most ridiculous attempt at combining science with religion I've ever seen.

I'm not talking about how many fractions of a minute god 'sees' in comparison to how we see it. I'm talking about the tens of thousands of actual years (that ACTUALLY happened) of human pain and suffering and god's indifference to it.


Im surprised you saw any science in it.... its got nothing to do with science :confused:
 

ryanam

Member
Ohhhhhh.... I see now. You're taking that likely mistranslated, nonsensical, probably misunderstood quote from a book with no citation to it's stories (and that's ALL they are) whatsoever, literally.

I have to ask... how can you be morally serious when you give such a response? "Don't worry... all that suffering only really lasted for 6 days because this book says it did".

The reality is that is WASN'T 6 days. It was thousands of years and it's still happening with your celestial dictator watching it all happen with indifference.
 

Mohamed

Member
So from the above passage, I do believe that Jesus had no human father. Mary was made pregnant by Gods holy spirit....this means God transferred the life of one of his angels, to the womb of Mary so that he could be born into this world as a human. We know this because Jesus himself said that he had come down from heaven to do Gods will. The only way he could have come from heaven is if he was one of the angels.


that's what we believe too



you might find this[youtube]ieQilbWQxdo[/youtube]
rundown of mans history interesting. Its only a few minutes long, but it covers a lot of ground.


quran says that too


there is something you are missing,for me (as a muslim for long time) i know that islam for sure is from god
but i'm just telling you,if Mohamed was a good person,he would never and say he is a messenger from god while he is not
if you think Mohamed is a bad man,you must find that out by yourself,he wasn't to follow steps of previous prophets by the way
i mean it's not a choice,you must believe or disbelieve him when he says that he is the messenger.and to disbelieve him,you must find out enough reasons to feel that he was lieing.that's all,for me,i don't need to read the bible because i already believing that there is a true bible from god,but for you,you must find out weather quran is from god or not.
 

Mohamed

Member
It was thousands of years and it's still happening with your celestial dictator watching it all happen with indifference.

you know what,dictator is a funny word here,it's not suitable at all
we hate dictators because they control people without having any right to do
but god created you,and he is free to do what he wants

god says in quran about himself and about humans

He cannot be questioned for His acts, but they will be questioned (for theirs).


and god's merciful is a gift not a duty
and by the way,just think alittle,almost every cure causes suffering,but the important part is the consequence,i may suffer from the cure for half an hour or even a day,because that can't be compared to my whole life
it's the same,you may suffer for a year or even for the whole life,but that can't be compared to your afterlife,if you don't believe that there is afterlife,it's your fault then,just tell me what whould happen when you die??,you don't know right?,so why you are sure that there is no afterlife?![/QUOTE]
 

ryanam

Member
you know what,dictator is a funny word here,it's not suitable at all
we hate dictators because they control people without having any right to do
but god created you,and he is free to do what he wants

god says in quran about himself and about humans

He cannot be questioned for His acts, but they will be questioned (for theirs).


and god's merciful is a gift not a duty
and by the way,just think alittle,almost every cure causes suffering,but the important part is the consequence,i may suffer from the cure for half an hour or even a day,because that can't be compared to my whole life
it's the same,you may suffer for a year or even for the whole life,but that can't be compared to your afterlife,if you don't believe that there is afterlife,it's your fault then,just tell me what whould happen when you die??,you don't know right?,so why you are sure that there is no afterlife?!
[/quote]

Thats a bit of a mess but I'll try to respond as best I can.

Dictator is the perfect word to use. Children, the poor and everyone else who dedicates their life to this nonsense are instructed on what to believe otherwise they're not doing god's will and will go to hell or whatever heaven isn't.

The Christian, or indeed any other church controls people's lives every day yet it has no right to. You (and most other believers) speak as if you have some kind of private line to god and that you have knowledge of the paranormal that nobody else does. This is called illusions of grandeur.

Basically you're saying that if one has a hard life, that they shouldn't worry because it will be made up to them in the next life? Try telling that to Fraulein Friezel who was locked in a dungeon and raped by her father almost daily for 24 years.

Imagine how she must have begged him. Imagine how she must have prayed... every single day and nothing. NOTHING. To say that it's acceptable for people to go through the misery they go through and justify it with promises of an afterlife is both immoral and nonsensical.

The truth is that nobody knows what happens when you die and nobody ever will. Based on the way that leaves, trees, insects, fish and other animals die; we just cease to live. I can base that on the way everything else dies. What do you base the afterlife on? The same premise on which children base the tooth fairy. "But my teeth must go SOMEWHERE!"
 

Mohamed

Member
Thats a bit of a mess but I'll try to respond as best I can.

Dictator is the perfect word to use. Children, the poor and everyone else who dedicates their life to this nonsense are instructed on what to believe otherwise they're not doing god's will and will go to hell or whatever heaven isn't.

The Christian, or indeed any other church controls people's lives every day yet it has no right to. You (and most other believers) speak as if you have some kind of private line to god and that you have knowledge of the paranormal that nobody else does. This is called illusions of grandeur.

Basically you're saying that if one has a hard life, that they shouldn't worry because it will be made up to them in the next life? Try telling that to Fraulein Friezel who was locked in a dungeon and raped by her father almost daily for 24 years.

Imagine how she must have begged him. Imagine how she must have prayed... every single day and nothing. NOTHING. To say that it's acceptable for people to go through the misery they go through and justify it with promises of an afterlife is both immoral and nonsensical.

The truth is that nobody knows what happens when you die and nobody ever will. Based on the way that leaves, trees, insects, fish and other animals die; we just cease to live. I can base that on the way everything else dies. What do you base the afterlife on? The same premise on which children base the tooth fairy. "But my teeth must go SOMEWHERE!"[/quote]



first about churches controlling people,that's not something connectiong to religion and beliefs,it's something connected to politics,i can control you under any name,forexample,i find that US now controls other countries in the name of democracy,although that's not logic but that happens,so don't burden the faith human's mistakes and abuse

i'm with you that there are terrible things in this world,ofcourse there are
but who made us feel such bad feelings for sure is able to make us feel million time good
can even remove this suffering from your life,you know,we believe that after life we wont even have same bodies,this life worths nothing and we will feel it was like an hour in the after life,his life is just a test for us,but ofcourse we are loving in it because we didn't try anything else

i don't know how you blame god for things he knows it better than you,it's even not logic to blame god,because if he exists,for sure he knows what he is doing


i'm not convincing you with the afterlife or something like that,i'm just saying,suffering and terrible things in this life can't be an evidence that god doesn't exist or that this god treats us bad.
 

ryanam

Member
Thats a bit of a mess but I'll try to respond as best I can.

Dictator is the perfect word to use. Children, the poor and everyone else who dedicates their life to this nonsense are instructed on what to believe otherwise they're not doing god's will and will go to hell or whatever heaven isn't.

The Christian, or indeed any other church controls people's lives every day yet it has no right to. You (and most other believers) speak as if you have some kind of private line to god and that you have knowledge of the paranormal that nobody else does. This is called illusions of grandeur.

Basically you're saying that if one has a hard life, that they shouldn't worry because it will be made up to them in the next life? Try telling that to Fraulein Friezel who was locked in a dungeon and raped by her father almost daily for 24 years.

Imagine how she must have begged him. Imagine how she must have prayed... every single day and nothing. NOTHING. To say that it's acceptable for people to go through the misery they go through and justify it with promises of an afterlife is both immoral and nonsensical.

The truth is that nobody knows what happens when you die and nobody ever will. Based on the way that leaves, trees, insects, fish and other animals die; we just cease to live. I can base that on the way everything else dies. What do you base the afterlife on? The same premise on which children base the tooth fairy. "But my teeth must go SOMEWHERE!"

Ryanam

first about churches controlling people,that's not something connectiong to religion and beliefs,it's something connected to politics,i can control you under any name,forexample,i find that US now controls other countries in the name of democracy,although that's not logic but that happens,so don't burden the faith human's mistakes and abuse

i'm with you that there are terrible things in this world,ofcourse there are
but who made us feel such bad feelings for sure is able to make us feel million time good
can even remove this suffering from your life,you know,we believe that after life we wont even have same bodies,this life worths nothing and we will feel it was like an hour in the after life,his life is just a test for us,but ofcourse we are loving in it because we didn't try anything else

i don't know how you blame god for things he knows it better than you,it's even not logic to blame god,because if he exists,for sure he knows what he is doing


i'm not convincing you with the afterlife or something like that,i'm just saying,suffering and terrible things in this life can't be an evidence that god doesn't exist or that this god treats us bad.
[/quote]

It's an unwinnable argument... no matter how much logic and sense I present, white noise will always be the response.

"How can you blame god for things he knows it better than you"
Another self absorbed, nonsense, white noise rebuttal. You're using non-proof to debate with and it doesn't work.

"and if he exists,for sure he knows what he is doing"
You've proven my point.
 

Mohamed

Member
Ryanam



It's an unwinnable argument... no matter how much logic and sense I present, white noise will always be the response.

Another self absorbed, nonsense, white noise rebuttal. You're using non-proof to debate with and it doesn't work.

You've proven my point.


i'm not sure wich arguement you mean,all what i said is only one thing,nothing can be proved from suffering in this world,what's wrong about that?,i told you,if god exists then justice will be there in the afterlife,you can't say (god exists) and (he is unfair and no justice in the afterlife) in the same time,that's all.
 

ryanam

Member
i'm not sure wich arguement you mean,all what i said is only one thing,nothing can be proved from suffering in this world,what's wrong about that?,i told you,if god exists then justice will be there in the afterlife,you can't say (god exists) and (he is unfair and no justice in the afterlife) in the same time,that's all.

And I'm saying that when one says "don't worry about the horrendous suffering man has gone through and still goes through... it'll all be justified in the afterlife" it's a greatly immoral, wicked and evil thing to even postulate.

The afterlife is a man-made manacle which is used to justify the atrocities committed by those who seek to use the god figure as a fear weapon.

Something CAN be proven from all the suffering in this world. God is either incompetent or indifferent and capricious and doesn't know what he's doing.

Either way, you worship him. Why?
 

quadman19

FRY THAT CHICKEN
i'm not sure wich arguement you mean,all what i said is only one thing,nothing can be proved from suffering in this world,what's wrong about that?,i told you,if god exists then justice will be there in the afterlife,you can't say (god exists) and (he is unfair and no justice in the afterlife) in the same time,that's all.

and there will be justice only for the people who pick the right religion. Makes perfect sense. Looks like the majority of us will suffer in this life and in the next one!
 

Mohamed

Member
And I'm saying that when one says "don't worry about the horrendous suffering man has gone through and still goes through... it'll all be justified in the afterlife" it's a greatly immoral, wicked and evil thing to even postulate.


if this is evil,what should be said as good then??!
 

ryanam

Member
if this is evil,what should be said as good then??
"Lets not make these people suffer in the first place. Let's take all the money, wealth and power that we, as a church, stole from others, give it back to the countries we once raped and then concentrate on the apparent essence of what our religion is."

If Ratzinger announced this, I would then believe that the Christian (or any other) church is a force for good in the world. Until that day, it is not.
 

Falcon

Member
Pegg, you wrote : " Doctrine is created by men. When they put a certain interpretation on a passage of scripture or when they create an idea, that is a doctrine. Like the trinity, it is a 'doctrine' created by men, but the idea is NOT found in the scriptures. But these people have used some scriptures and applied an interpretation to fit their doctrine."

Not true, the Holy Bible says that Jesus gave the Doctrine already , way back then, to His Church , maybe not to your church but only to His One Church , it is very clear in Romans 16:17 -18
" .... in oppoosition to the doctrine which you have been taught........... "
Trinity is illustrated by Jesus when He commanded [ His Apostles ] in Matt 28: 18-19 -".... Go therefore and make disciples of all nations , baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . "
There it is , I can understand what it stands for, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out, also notice the Lord Jesus uses the singular form "name " , not the plural "names " when He gives the above directive. This usage implies the unity of the Three divine Persons of the Trinity. The word Bible or" Bible alone " isn't found in the Bible as clear as the meaning of the word Trinity.You haven't any qualms about accepting Bible but not Trinity.

"For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word , and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one [ 1st John 5v 7 ]
Now are you going to contradict that the word ,Word in the above verse means Jesus ,the Word made Flesh ?
 

Mohamed

Member
"Lets not make these people suffer in the first place. Let's take all the money, wealth and power that we, as a church, stole from others, give it back to the countries we once raped and then concentrate on the apparent essence of what our religion is."

If Ratzinger announced this, I would then believe that the Christian (or any other) church is a force for good in the world. Until that day, it is not.


in fact religion calls for that too
what's the contradiction between that and what i was saying,i was talking about suffering that we didn't manage to prevent
by the way,it's appearant that you are blaming churches not religions,and by the way also,countries wich had been raped have religions too,anyone stealing in the name of religion is worse than any thief,but that (i'm talking about my religion) almost doesn't happen,in fact we even pray anywhere,the smallest mosque could hold hunderds or thousands,not important to have delux mosques,we don't have office or priesthood,all people are equal and should pray,see this video forexample


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZsUvOPki2Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMIuC_z11hU&feature=feedwll&list=WL

so nobody can steal under the name of Islam
 
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ryanam

Member
in fact religion calls for that too
what's the contradiction between that and what i was saying,i was talking about suffering that we didn't manage to prevent
by the way,it's appearant that you are blaming churches not religions,and by the way also,countries wich had been raped have religions too,anyone stealing in the name of religion is worse than any thief,but that (i'm talking about my religion) almost doesn't happen,in fact we even pray anywhere,the smallest mosque could hold hunderds or thousands,not important to have delux mosques,we don't have office or priesthood,all people are equal and should pray,see this video forexample

This entire thread relates to the Christian religion (or church). Check the thread name.

in fact religion calls for that too

Really? I don't remember EVER hearing a single religious leader call for all the wealth and power that they've thieved to be returned to the people from which they stole it.

was talking about suffering that we didn't manage to prevent

The problem with this statement is that not only did religion not prevent suffering, it was (and still is), in fact, responsible for most of it.
 
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