Questions for God

[dybmh]

does [he] freely admit there are things [he] doesn't know?

No.

Where does it explain how God knows there's nothing [he] doesn't know [he] doesn't know?

The questions are answered in scripture, but, it requires a human to articulate the explanation.

Here is a link to a recent post where the verses were brought which describe God as absolutley literally infinite and eternal. - LINK

In regard to omniscience, look at the verses from Jeremiah which describe absolute omnipresence. That covers knowledge of all objective phenomena.

Here are some verses which describe God as all knowing of all subjective phenomena. From the Psalms of King David:

139:1​

למנצח לדוד מזמור יהוה חקרתני ותדע׃​

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me, and known me.​

​

139:2​

אתה ידעת שבתי וקומי בנתה לרעי מרחוק׃​

You know when I sit down and when I rise up, you understand my thoughts from far away.​

​

139:3​

ארחי ורבעי זרית וכל־דרכי הסכנתה׃​

You have measured my going and my lying down, and you are acquainted with all my ways.​

​

139:4​

כי אין מלה בלשוני הן יהוה ידעת כלה׃​

For before a word is in my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it all.​

​

139:5​

אחור וקדם צרתני ותשת עלי כפכה׃​

You have beset me behind and before, and laid your hand upon me.​

​

139:6​

פלאיה [פליאה] דעת ממני נשגבה לא־אוכל לה׃​

(K) Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain it.​

​

139:7​

אנה אלך מרוחך ואנה מפניך אברח׃​

Where shall I go from your spirit? Where shall I flee from your presence?​

Because God is omniscient of all objective and subjective phenomena from everlasting to everlasting, there is nothing omitted from God''s knowledge.

How does God know this? Because God is currently creating all of it. There is nothing but God prior to creation. So, just as you know that there is nothing additional in the post you are typing other than the letters and spaces which you are typing, there is nothing additional which is not known in the reality which God is currently creating.

There are few places in scripture which describe creation as ongoing. The easiest place to see it in in Psalms 119:

King David writes:

לעולם יהוה דברך נצב בשמים׃​

For ever, O Lord, your word is fixed in heaven.​

​

פתח דבריך יאיר מבין פתיים׃​

The unfolding of your word gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.​

​

נר־לרגלי דברך ואור לנתיבתי׃​

Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path.​

​

Because God is creating using the word, creation via divine fiat, "let there be light", this implies ongoing creation. Creation is not an event which happened. It is happening.

That's how God knows that there is not any which is not known which is not known. All of it is known and nothing is left out, nothing can be left out.

There's another example:

2 Sam 22:31​

​

האל תמים דרכו אמרת יהוה צרופה מגן הוא לכל החסים בו׃​

As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is tried; he is a shield to all those who trust in him.​

The word choice for perfect, also means complete. It cannot be perfect if it is incomplete. Therefore nothing is missing from God's knowledge.

I'll be offline for the sabbath. if you have further questions or comments, I won't see them till late saturday evening.

 

[blü 2]

The questions are answered in scripture, but, it requires a human to articulate the explanation.

Here is a link to a recent post where the verses were brought which describe God as absolutley literally infinite and eternal. - LINK

In regard to omniscience, look at the verses from Jeremiah which describe absolute omnipresence. That covers knowledge of all objective phenomena.

They don't address my question. If I'm wrong, please direct me to the words that in fact address my question.

The question, just to be clear by repeating it, is, "How does God know there's nothing [he] doesn't know [he] doesn't know?"

Without a clear and credible answer to that question (as distinct from a dismissal or evasion of it) the claim of omniscience is simply not sustainable.

'God knows a lot' might work. Omniscience, nope.

 

[InChrist]

I would have only one question, what's the game with childhood leukemia?

If a god could answer that then other questions i have would already be answered.

The biblical scriptures reveal that bad things like childhood diseases occur because this is a fallen world corrupted and damaged by sin.

 

[ppp]

The biblical scriptures reveal that bad things like childhood diseases occur because this is a fallen world corrupted and damaged by sin.

The Rudyard Kipling story reveals that the elephant got its trunk by the crocodile tugging on its nose. I don't take that just-so story seriously either.

 

[Maninthemiddle]

As my questions suggest, I have trouble with the usual answers.

It's all very well to claim to be all-knowing, but the claim isn't credible if we don't have an answer to my question on knowing in the OP.

Well it's foolish to think anyone can provide an answer to this question.

 

[Maninthemiddle]

I would have only one question, what's the game with childhood leukemia?

If a god could answer that then other questions i have would already be answered.

Karma

 

[osgart]

Zzzzzzzzz....... God made chickens didn't he/she.

Therefore God knows everything there is to know. Chickens are the pinnacle of creation.

 

[blü 2]

The biblical scriptures reveal that bad things like childhood diseases occur because this is a fallen world corrupted and damaged by sin.

Where does the Tanakh say that this is a fallen world?

Certainly not in the Genesis Garden story, where there's absolutely zero mention of sin or fall (which is appropriate since Adam and Eve had been denied knowledge of good and evil hence were incapable of forming an intention to do wrong hence were incapable of sin.)

Yes I know Paul mentions it once, and that around 400 CE Augustine of Hippo made it popular, but it's not from the bible but from one particular midrash version in Alexandria late in the 2nd century BCE. Ezekiel 18 makes it emphatically clear that sin can't be inherited. And Jesus says nothing of the kind in any of the four gospels.)

 

[blü 2]

Well it's foolish to think anyone can provide an answer to this question.

Well said ─ that's the point.

And yet without the answer, God can't coherently be omniscient.

 

[ChristineM]

The biblical scriptures reveal that bad things like childhood diseases occur because this is a fallen world corrupted and damaged by sin.

Right. So the perfect god made an error in his design.

Perhaps you could provide verse numbers for this revelation

 

[Colt]

For me, 'truth' is a quality of statements, and a statement is true to the extent that it corresponds with / accurately reflects objective reality.

What definition of 'truth' are you using here?


I respect your right to believe as you think best, but these are the RF debate boards.

So for me, a materialist, the "circle of infinity" doesn't correspond with what is found in the world external to the self ("reality").

And the human brain is the end product of 3.5 billion years or more of evolutionary trial and error.

First, my definition of "Truth" would be all that is true. God would be the greatest and final objective reality, "the first truth and the last fact". I KNOW that I am neither.

"The exquisite and transcendent experience of loving and being loved is not just a psychic illusion because it is so purely subjective. The one truly divine and objective reality that is associated with mortal beings, the Thought Adjuster, functions to human observation apparently as an exclusively subjective phenomenon. Man's contact with the highest objective reality, God, is only through the purely subjective experience of knowing him, of worshiping him, of realizing sonship with him." UB 1985

Insisting that the material is all that there is then you are limited in the exploration of truth. But at least you acknowledge the "progressive growth" of brain over time.

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Well said ─ that's the point.

And yet without the answer, God can't coherently be omniscient.

If God exists he is what he is, not what we perceive him to be.
He will not change according to each individual he will remain what he is.
What he is cannot be known, so it's a waste of time trying to understand.

 

[PureX]

Being God, there would be no reason to ponder such questions.

 

[MikeF]

No.



The questions are answered in scripture, but, it requires a human to articulate the explanation.

Here is a link to a recent post where the verses were brought which describe God as absolutley literally infinite and eternal. - LINK

In regard to omniscience, look at the verses from Jeremiah which describe absolute omnipresence. That covers knowledge of all objective phenomena.

Here are some verses which describe God as all knowing of all subjective phenomena. From the Psalms of King David:

139:1​

למנצח לדוד מזמור יהוה חקרתני ותדע׃​

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O Lord, you have searched me, and known me.​

​

139:2​

אתה ידעת שבתי וקומי בנתה לרעי מרחוק׃​

You know when I sit down and when I rise up, you understand my thoughts from far away.​

​

139:3​

ארחי ורבעי זרית וכל־דרכי הסכנתה׃​

You have measured my going and my lying down, and you are acquainted with all my ways.​

​

139:4​

כי אין מלה בלשוני הן יהוה ידעת כלה׃​

For before a word is in my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it all.​

​

139:5​

אחור וקדם צרתני ותשת עלי כפכה׃​

You have beset me behind and before, and laid your hand upon me.​

​

139:6​

פלאיה [פליאה] דעת ממני נשגבה לא־אוכל לה׃​

(K) Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain it.​

​

139:7​

אנה אלך מרוחך ואנה מפניך אברח׃​

Where shall I go from your spirit? Where shall I flee from your presence?​

Because God is omniscient of all objective and subjective phenomena from everlasting to everlasting, there is nothing omitted from God''s knowledge.

How does God know this? Because God is currently creating all of it. There is nothing but God prior to creation. So, just as you know that there is nothing additional in the post you are typing other than the letters and spaces which you are typing, there is nothing additional which is not known in the reality which God is currently creating.

There are few places in scripture which describe creation as ongoing. The easiest place to see it in in Psalms 119:

King David writes:

לעולם יהוה דברך נצב בשמים׃​

For ever, O Lord, your word is fixed in heaven.​

​

פתח דבריך יאיר מבין פתיים׃​

The unfolding of your word gives light; it gives understanding to the simple.​

​

נר־לרגלי דברך ואור לנתיבתי׃​

Your word is a lamp to my feet, and a light to my path.​

​

Because God is creating using the word, creation via divine fiat, "let there be light", this implies ongoing creation. Creation is not an event which happened. It is happening.

That's how God knows that there is not any which is not known which is not known. All of it is known and nothing is left out, nothing can be left out.

There's another example:

2 Sam 22:31​

​

האל תמים דרכו אמרת יהוה צרופה מגן הוא לכל החסים בו׃​

As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is tried; he is a shield to all those who trust in him.​

The word choice for perfect, also means complete. It cannot be perfect if it is incomplete. Therefore nothing is missing from God's knowledge.

I'll be offline for the sabbath. if you have further questions or comments, I won't see them till late saturday evening.

Genesis 3:8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

 

[Bear Wild]

1. How does God know there's nothing [he] doesn't know [he] doesn't know?

2. How does God know [he] didn't spontaneously spring into existence. fully formed with memories and all, with the rest of the universe last Thursday?

3. How does God know [he]'s not just a dream in the brain of a human?

Which god are you talking about. The answer would depend on the god or goddess in question.

 

[1213]

So you think we can safely rule omniscience out?

No.

Nah, [he] was spontaneously brought into being like the rest of the universe with memories of yesterday, indeed [his] entire past, installed.

Who/what would have done or caused that and how?

That would account for why none of the churches appears to have a description of [him] appropriate to a real being, one with objective existence, no?

If people have the Bible, I think they have then also a good description of God.

 

[blü 2]

Insisting that the material is all that there is then you are limited in the exploration of truth. But at least you acknowledge the "progressive growth" of brain over time.

It's a consequence of my forming the view that objective evidence and repeatable demonstration are basic to accurately learning who we are and what the universe is.

It's all a work in progress, but a methodical one with objective standards, so I find it much more persuasive than alternatives,

But in a free country we can each choose the way we take on such matters.

 

[blü 2]

If God exists he is what he is, not what we perceive him to be.
He will not change according to each individual he will remain what he is.
What he is cannot be known, so it's a waste of time trying to understand.

Then who's saying God is omniscient?

 

[blü 2]

Which god are you talking about. The answer would depend on the god or goddess in question.

The God of the bible. (The later version, not the prototypes.)

 

[blü 2]

No.

Why not? It appears that there's no way for God to be omniscient. If that's wrong then it's up to the proponents of omniscience to make a credible case, no?

Who/what would have done or caused that and how?

It's just something that happens in the story.

If people have the Bible, I think they have then also a good description of God.

I've looked quite hard at the bible, and I find a variety of versions of God. And nowhere have I found a description appropriate for a real God such that if we find a real candidate we can determine whether he or she is God or not.

Nor have I found a definition of 'godness', the quality a real god would have and a real superscientist who could create universes, raise the dead &c would lack.

So if you have good solid answers to those question, you'll have extended my knowledge greatly.