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Questions for Muslims

Pastek

Sunni muslim
How can a person trust Muslims, when in their q'uran teaches to deceive and lieing, and the killing of innocent people.

Can you quote the verses ?

This is what is called, Love your enemies.
You love your enemies by showing them the error of their way. This is, You show Respect and love towards me, and I will show Respect and love towards you.
An eye for an eye.

The choice is given to muslims to forgive or not forgive. But forgiveness is better of course.


42.43 And whoever is patient and forgives - indeed, that is of the matters [requiring] determination.

15.85 (...)
And indeed, the Hour is coming; so forgive with gracious forgiveness.

3.134 Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good;

41.34 And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend.

23.96 Repel, by [means of] what is best, [their] evil. We are most knowing of what they describe.

 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Can you quote the verses ?



The choice is given to muslims to forgive or not forgive. But forgiveness is better of course.


42.43 And whoever is patient and forgives - indeed, that is of the matters [requiring] determination.

15.85 (...)
And indeed, the Hour is coming; so forgive with gracious forgiveness.

3.134 Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good;

41.34 And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend.

23.96 Repel, by [means of] what is best, [their] evil. We are most knowing of what they describe.


Are you freaking kidding me, how can you be a Muslim and not know what the Q'uran say.and you ask me to give the Verses.

Now that's amazing.

Just to let you know, I do have q'uran and know Q'uran say
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
Can you quote the verses ?



The choice is given to muslims to forgive or not forgive. But forgiveness is better of course.


42.43 And whoever is patient and forgives - indeed, that is of the matters [requiring] determination.

15.85 (...)
And indeed, the Hour is coming; so forgive with gracious forgiveness.

3.134 Who spend [in the cause of Allah ] during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people - and Allah loves the doers of good;

41.34 And not equal are the good deed and the bad. Repel [evil] by that [deed] which is better; and thereupon the one whom between you and him is enmity [will become] as though he was a devoted friend.

23.96 Repel, by [means of] what is best, [their] evil. We are most knowing of what they describe.

Question: Why did Allah command Muhammad to use violence to spread Islam’s rule? “Why couldn’t Allah have instructed Muhammad to continue to be peaceable, as God commanded Christians?”

Answer: Allah regards those who do not believe in Him, or who believe in false gods, as evil, as friends of Allah’s enemies. Therefore Allah hates them. The use of violence is allowed after the non-Muslims have heard the message of Islam and rejected it. If they reject the peaceful offer to accept Islam then they are to be fought to submit to Allah’s rule. Here are a selection of verses which reflect this, (all quotes are from Shakir’s Quran unless otherwise noted, bold and underline are mine):


In the manner of the people of Firon and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust. Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. 8:54, 55

Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak. 4:76

Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers. And as to those who believe and do good deeds, He will pay them fully their rewards; and Allah does not love the unjust. 3:56, 57

Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. 3:31, 32

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.

therefore if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn back, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall not have in the land any guardian or a helper. 9:73, 74

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). 9:123

Islam Hates You
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If God loved everyone unconditionally, then no need for religion, everyone would enter heaven upon death. No need to more than 100,000 Messengers warning mankind.

The Torah and Book of Revelation in the NT makes clear, God declare war on unbelievers.

Islam is the fastest growing Religion in the West amongst those of other faiths or no faith.

Allah swt loves all those who turn to Him.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Question: Why did Allah command Muhammad to use violence to spread Islam’s rule? “Why couldn’t Allah have instructed Muhammad to continue to be peaceable, as God commanded Christians?”

Answer: Allah regards those who do not believe in Him, or who believe in false gods, as evil, as friends of Allah’s enemies. Therefore Allah hates them. The use of violence is allowed after the non-Muslims have heard the message of Islam and rejected it. If they reject the peaceful offer to accept Islam then they are to be fought to submit to Allah’s rule. Here are a selection of verses which reflect this, (all quotes are from Shakir’s Quran unless otherwise noted, bold and underline are mine):


In the manner of the people of Firon and those before them; they rejected the communications of their Lord, therefore We destroyed them on account of their faults and We drowned Firon's people, and they were all unjust. Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. 8:54, 55

Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak. 4:76

Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers. And as to those who believe and do good deeds, He will pay them fully their rewards; and Allah does not love the unjust. 3:56, 57

Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. 3:31, 32

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. Allah has promised the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women and the unbelievers the fire of hell to abide therein; it is enough for them; and Allah has cursed them and they shall have lasting punishment.

therefore if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn back, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall not have in the land any guardian or a helper. 9:73, 74

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). 9:123

Islam Hates You


Your God Allah do not say this.
Muhammad say this,

Muhammad could not read or write, muhammad had wife to write Q'uran

How would Muhammad know what wife wrote, Muhammad did not read or write.

You say, Allah all powerful, but Allah could not help Muhammad to read and write.

Allah not all powerful, could not help Muhammad to read and write.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
If God loved everyone unconditionally, then no need for religion, everyone would enter heaven upon death. No need to more than 100,000 Messengers warning mankind.

The Torah and Book of Revelation in the NT makes clear, God declare war on unbelievers.

Islam is the fastest growing Religion in the West amongst those of other faiths or no faith.

Allah swt loves all those who turn to Him.

So Allah creates people in non-belief then declares war on them & punishes them for their non-belief? He may be a god of many things but apparently common sense eludes even the Great Maker...
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So Allah creates people in non-belief then declares war on them & punishes them for their non-belief? He may be a god of many things but apparently common sense eludes even the Great Maker...
As I've explained elsewhere, everyone is born firmly believing in God, and that changes with one's upbringing.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
As I've explained elsewhere, everyone is born firmly believing in God, and that changes with one's upbringing.

Not according to your q'uran, if person does not believe, they are infidel's are to be killed.
Why of course you going to say.q'uran say,

Q'uran also say, you can deceive the infidels.to get control over the infidel's.
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Not according to your q'uran, if person does not believe, they are infidel's are to be killed.
Why of course you going to say.q'uran say,
Evidence. Here let me explain why god jesus hates unbelievers with actual evidence:

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.(Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)


god jesus in the NT says,

Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

In the Book of Revelation 14:20 "And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia."

and yes, god jesus is the one pressing the wine.

Q'uran also say, you can deceive the infidels.to get control over the infidel's.
Feel free to post the verse, and I'll be happy to compare to what god jesus has to say.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
As I've explained elsewhere, everyone is born firmly believing in God, and that changes with one's upbringing.

A belief which isn't borne out by observable reality; humans are born knowing nothing. Our bodies aren't yet fully developed at birth and our brains certainly aren't. We can't even see beyond a few inches at birth, much less retain anything as complex as a memory. So no, humans are not born believing in your god or any gods.

Second, my claim is backed by the Quran itself: Surah 10:99 which says:

"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"

This verse states that it is Allah's will that there are non-believers on Earth because he allows them to exist in non-belief. Therefore it is completely illogical that he should punish them for being in a state he has allowed them to exist in.


Evidence. Here let me explain why god jesus hates unbelievers with actual evidence:

First; that does not address nor counter Notanumber's point. Second; please stop with the tuquoque fallacy. Seriously, enough with the whataboutery. Third; quoting scripture at a person who doesn't belong to that faith is not evidence since said holy book has no power or meaning.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
Evidence. Here let me explain why god jesus hates unbelievers with actual evidence:

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.(Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)


god jesus in the NT says,

Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

In the Book of Revelation 14:20 "And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia."

and yes, god jesus is the one pressing the wine.

Feel free to post the verse, and I'll be happy to compare to what god jesus has to say.

The free West had left all that mumbo jumbo behind us but Islam wants to bring it all back!
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A belief which isn't borne out by observable reality; humans are born knowing nothing. Our bodies aren't yet fully developed at birth and our brains certainly aren't. We can't even see beyond a few inches at birth, much less retain anything as complex as a memory. So no, humans are not born believing in your god or any gods.
I have no idea what your, 'i like a bit of this and a bit of that' belief entails, but in the Abrahamic faith, we are Spirits that are clothed in a earthly body. After death, the Spirit returns to Allah swt. Returns because that's where it came from along with the knowledge it was given before entering the womb. You must have read the verse?

Second, my claim is backed by the Quran itself: Surah 10:99 which says:

"And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"

This verse states that it is Allah's will that there are non-believers on Earth because he allows them to exist in non-belief. Therefore it is completely illogical that he should punish them for being in a state he has allowed them to exist in.
No, the verse if read in context, (something non Muslims don't like doing) is talking about man's Freewill.



First; that does not address nor counter Notanumber's point. Second; please stop with the tuquoque fallacy. Seriously, enough with the whataboutery. Third; quoting scripture at a person who doesn't belong to that faith is not evidence since said holy book has no power or meaning.
I'll be happy to respond in a fitting manner when he supplies the requested evidence.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
It would be a good idea to take a sabbatical from Islam every now and again and free oneself from the shackles of Sharia.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I have no idea what your, 'i like a bit of this and a bit of that' belief entails, but in the Abrahamic faith, we are Spirits that are clothed in a earthly body. After death, the Spirit returns to Allah swt. Returns because that's where it came from along with the knowledge it was given before entering the womb. You must have read the verse?

And since there's no evidence for spirits this isn't much of an argument. You're simply replacing one dubious claim with no evidence for another dubious claim with no evidence. And since you've spent a number of posts in this thread demanding other people provide evidence for their claims, turnabout is fair play.


No, the verse if read in context, (something non Muslims don't like doing) is talking about man's Freewill.

Have you ever heard of this thing called implication? You should learn about it. The verse implies that non-believers exist because your god permits them to. Since your god is allegedly all-knowing he created people knowing they would either believing at birth and becoming non-believers later or incapable of belief in any direction (this one is backed by observable reality) at birth. The end result is the exact same. Your god declares war on the people whose existence he permits.


I'll be happy to respond in a fitting manner when he supplies the requested evidence.

I'd be surprised if you even could.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Evidence. Here let me explain why god jesus hates unbelievers with actual evidence:

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.(Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die.(Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets

1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, ‘Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,’ do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.’ You may wonder, ‘How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?’ If the prophet predicts something in the LORD’s name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)


god jesus in the NT says,

Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

In the Book of Revelation 14:20 "And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia."

and yes, god jesus is the one pressing the wine.

Feel free to post the verse, and I'll be happy to compare to what god jesus has to say.


You have no idea what your talking about.

Nothing what you say, has nothing to do with true Christians. Maybe you talk to false Christians maybe you get some where.Ok
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You have no idea what your talking about.

Nothing what you say, has nothing to do with true Christians. Maybe you talk to false Christians maybe you get some where.Ok
Talk to 10 Christians, get 10 different versions of Christianity. Is your version of Jesus pbuh 100% god from God the Father, the third of a Trinity?
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And since there's no evidence for spirits this isn't much of an argument. You're simply replacing one dubious claim with no evidence for another dubious claim with no evidence. And since you've spent a number of posts in this thread demanding other people provide evidence for their claims, turnabout is fair play.
Evidence I request is from Scripture and should be readily forthcoming. Other evidence can come from credible studies that have been done. You're asking for evidence of the soul, when we know Science does not have the correct tools to verify the unseen.

Having said that...

Spirit is the Soul, evidence is from eye witness testimonies of people who experienced NDE's. On being resuscitated after a period of clinical death, they describe floating from their body, and looking down at the scene on the operating table. Some recall names on badges worn by staff, the position of certain objects in a room they have never been in, and what certain people who came in and out were wearing:


AWARE study initial results are published!

World's largest near death experiences study | University of Southampton

Here's a Jewish Rabbi explaining his NDE and if you didn't know, he could be quoting from Hadiths and Islamic sources:



Have you ever heard of this called implication? You should learn about it. The verse implies that non-believers exist because your god permits them to. Since your god is allegedly all-knowing he created people knowing they would either believing at birth and becoming non-believers later or incapable of belief in any direction (this one is backed by observable reality) at birth. The end result is the exact same. Your god declares war on the people whose existence he permits.
They are using their freewill and consciously choosing to ignore the evidence and God. Every single one of them knows deep down, they were created by God, and to Him they will return. You'll have to wait till you die to verify this 100% fact for yourself, as you will hear them testify against themselves. They fool no one but themselves, great isn't it?
 
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