Questions of God's acceptance. (For Christians and Islam)

[Malus 12:9]

Why change for God? Why can't he accept us the way we are? I am not talking about killers or rapists in this aspect, but why should we change for Him? Can't he just accept
us for what we are? I see many muslim and christians saying God accepts all of us, but he doesn't. If he did, we wouldn't have to change or go through ordeals, or so.

Why should it bother God what I do with my spare time?

 

[Aqualung]

He'll accept us and love us. But he won't reward us.

 

[Malus 12:9]

Exactly, Aqua. So why bother? I don't care if he "loves me" that's his opinion, not mine.

If I walked into your church, I can picture you rolling your ryes.

 

[Aqualung]

Because rewards are always nice. He doesn't reward you for not changing. Make a change and you will get the reward. Sure, acceptance and love and nice, but that and rewards are better.

 

[Malus 12:9]

And what is this reward? He'll make a reward for the punishment he made? God makes no sense.

He makes Hell so we can trauma and have something to be saved from..
He makes Salvation so we can be made from Hell which he made in the first place.
He makes us so we can sin, then makes heaven and salvation so he can save us from Hell.

Man, God is weird..

 

[Malus 12:9]

Covering his mistakes perhaps.

 

[Aqualung]

The reward is getting to live with him. If you can't reach that reward, you will at least get to live with Christ. If you can't reach that reward, you will at least get to live with the holy ghost. Not many people will actually go to hell, where you won't live with anybody.

 

[almifkhar]

there is simply a way in which people should live life. think of it like this, when we sleep around with different people someone is bound to get hurt because one is going to have feelings that the other dosent. if we steal from someone someone is bound to get hurt because it takes away from his/her property and or lively hood. the whole point in the laws that govern how we should act and live was put down for the reason of living in harmony in the community and with neghibors. to think and act in a spiritual way to achieve eternal life, i.e. nirvana one with god.

when we live selfishly and with materialistic ideals, we destroy the community and our own spiritual relationship with god for god is not about these things, and ultimately these things really don't matter in the end reguardless of what happens.

think of it in another way, could you accept someone who thinks its cool to sleep with your mate or steal your belongings especially when if they had it to do over again they would do no different?

 

[Malus 12:9]

when we sleep around with different people

Somehow I don't think that will affect me..

Not many people will actually go to hell

You mean hell is reserved for the truly bad? Like Bin Laden or Saddam, or Britney Spears?
LMAO

 

[Radar]

Sounds like people are some sort of pet. Like you tell a dog to roll over if he does you praise him and give him a treat. But if he just lays there then it's ok. I don't like the idea of being anyone's or anythings pet or slave depnding on how you look at it. So go ahead and be a dog for a master that is never around and just leaves you a note on how to act and you are some how suppose to unscramble his words.

 

[Radar]

there is simply a way in which people should live life. think of it like this, when we sleep around with different people someone is bound to get hurt because one is going to have feelings that the other dosent. if we steal from someone someone is bound to get hurt because it takes away from his/her property and or lively hood. the whole point in the laws that govern how we should act and live was put down for the reason of living in harmony in the community and with neghibors. to think and act in a spiritual way to achieve eternal life, i.e. nirvana one with god.

when we live selfishly and with materialistic ideals, we destroy the community and our own spiritual relationship with god for god is not about these things, and ultimately these things really don't matter in the end reguardless of what happens.

think of it in another way, could you accept someone who thinks its cool to sleep with your mate or steal your belongings especially when if they had it to do over again they would do no different?

I don't see how this applies to this post.

 

[Malus 12:9]

Neither did I, but I just left it without saying anything.

 

[Steve]

The reward is getting to live with him. If you can't reach that reward, you will at least get to live with Christ. If you can't reach that reward, you will at least get to live with the holy ghost.

Your kidding right? "at least" get to live with Christ? "at least" get to live with the Holy Ghost? Christ made atonment so we can appear spotless, there are no levels and to say that you live with the Holy Ghost if you arnt good enough to live with Christ is shocking, or you live with Christ if you arnt good enough to live with the Father.
There is a book of life, your either in it or your not. Jesus either made atonment for you or you havnt accepted it.

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Rev 21:27

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Rev 22:14-15
​

Not many people will actually go to hell, where you won't live with anybody.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

 

[Malus 12:9]

"

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matthew 7:13-14

And there are hundreds and hundreds of Scriptures which speak of “judgment,” yet the Church teaches that people by the BILLIONS are sent to an eternal hell of fire and are not even judged before they go there. So much for that.

Where is a Christian's evidence of Hell? How do you know it is a "fiery pit"? Someone you known been there and said "G'day, I'm in hell, pretty heated down here."? Can I have a guided tour?

 

[James the Persian]

"
And there are hundreds and hundreds of Scriptures which speak of “judgment,” yet the Church teaches that people by the BILLIONS are sent to an eternal hell of fire and are not even judged before they go there. So much for that.

Where is a Christian's evidence of Hell? How do you know it is a "fiery pit"? Someone you known been there and said "G'day, I'm in hell, pretty heated down here."? Can I have a guided tour?

Not all Christians have the view of salvation and hell that you are ascribing to us, so it's not really accurate to say 'the Church teaches...'. My Church teaches no such thing. Nor does She teach that heaven and hell are separate places in the way you describe. Nor do we believe that anyone goes anywhere without being judged. Actually, on that last one I think you'd be hard put to find any Christians at all that would agree with what you have written.

God loves all of us as a Father and wills that all men be saved. He pours out His grace on the good and the bad alike but He also allows us free will to accept or reject Him. He does not reject us, though He may reject some of our actions; we reject Him.

If you love and trust your parents you will try to follow what they say, live up to their expectations, love them back and not to disappoint them. This is precisely the same type of relationship we have with God. He will always be there for us and forgive us no matter what mistakes we make. All we have to do is ask. We aren't trying to jump through hoops to please a tyrant's arbitrary wishes, but endeavouring to be the way our Father tells us it is best we should be because we love and trust Him.

James

 

[Malus 12:9]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The doctrine of hell is an invention of men and is nowhere found in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts. It is
also used as a forceful conversion technique.

"If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity went there, how could you HONESTLY say that 'Love NEVER fails?' Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things." (I Cor. 13:8)

If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?
[/font]

 

[Kowalski]

Hell is in the here and now, that's what people should be concerned about, hell is just a word, reality is much much worse.

K

 

[ThisShouldMakeSense]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The doctrine of hell is an invention of men and is nowhere found in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts. It is
also used as a forceful conversion technique.

"If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity went there, how could you HONESTLY say that 'Love NEVER fails?' Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things." (I Cor. 13:8)

If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?
[/font]

Correct, there is no hell. it is not a teaching found in the bible. Ecclesiates 9:5,10
5For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten.

10Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol (the grave), to which you are going.

If the dead know nothing, then they can't know pain and torment of a fiery hell.

 

[James the Persian]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The doctrine of hell is an invention of men and is nowhere found in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts. It is
also used as a forceful conversion technique.

"If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity went there, how could you HONESTLY say that 'Love NEVER fails?' Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things." (I Cor. 13:8)

If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?
[/font]

You are just proving my point for me. You read hell and think 'place of punishment where God condemns sinners to eternal torment'. I don't and nor does my Church teach this. If what you believe to be our doctrine were true I would oppose it just as you do, but you are mistaken. For us, all men will be with God, all will be inescapably surrounded by His love. Heaven and hell are not places but states of being, experiences of God's love. We are not being tormented by God but by ourselves, our hatred or love of God resulting in us perceiving His inescapable love as either blessing or torment. We don't believe in eternal punishment because such punishment would be purely vengeful as it serves no pedagogical purpose. If God is all good such vengeance is contrary to His nature. That doesn't mean that we are universalists (though many of us would pray for universal salvation) because people are free to reject God for all eternity and suffer as a result. Hell is eternal because it is an experience of God's eternal love. As long as one being perceives said love as torment, hell exists in actuality. Even if nobody experiences it at any one time (though that's not really applicable terminology for eternity) it still exists in potential. Please don't make blanket statements such as 'the Church teaches X' if you are completely unfamiliar with the teachings of the second largest church on earth. Such statements can only be misleading.

James

 

[michel]

there is simply a way in which people should live life. think of it like this, when we sleep around with different people someone is bound to get hurt because one is going to have feelings that the other dosent. if we steal from someone someone is bound to get hurt because it takes away from his/her property and or lively hood. the whole point in the laws that govern how we should act and live was put down for the reason of living in harmony in the community and with neghibors. to think and act in a spiritual way to achieve eternal life, i.e. nirvana one with god.

when we live selfishly and with materialistic ideals, we destroy the community and our own spiritual relationship with god for god is not about these things, and ultimately these things really don't matter in the end reguardless of what happens.

think of it in another way, could you accept someone who thinks its cool to sleep with your mate or steal your belongings especially when if they had it to do over again they would do no different?

I don't see how this applies to this post.

I think you do almifkhar an injustice; I think the bulk of his message was summarized in:-

" the whole point in the laws that govern how we should act and live was put down for the reason of living in harmony in the community and with neghibors. to think and act in a spiritual way to achieve eternal life, i.e. nirvana one with god.
when we live selfishly and with materialistic ideals, we destroy the community and our own spiritual relationship with god for god is not about these things, and ultimately these things really don't matter in the end reguardless of what happens. "

I read his post as saying "Live a pure and clean life (Which is good for society in general), and you will be treated in heaven in kind, at peace and in harmony with God.
As far as I see this is the same message as that put by James.......

Not all Christians have the view of salvation and hell that you are ascribing to us, so it's not really accurate to say 'the Church teaches...'. My Church teaches no such thing. Nor does She teach that heaven and hell are separate places in the way you describe. Nor do we believe that anyone goes anywhere without being judged. Actually, on that last one I think you'd be hard put to find any Christians at all that would agree with what you have written.

God loves all of us as a Father and wills that all men be saved. He pours out His grace on the good and the bad alike but He also allows us free will to accept or reject Him. He does not reject us, though He may reject some of our actions; we reject Him.

If you love and trust your parents you will try to follow what they say, live up to their expectations, love them back and not to disappoint them. This is precisely the same type of relationship we have with God. He will always be there for us and forgive us no matter what mistakes we make. All we have to do is ask. We aren't trying to jump through hoops to please a tyrant's arbitrary wishes, but endeavouring to be the way our Father tells us it is best we should be because we love and trust Him.

James

Beautiful post, James. I love the 'parent' analogy.