Questions that believers cannot answer

[Trailblazer]

Not equally important. As exalted as He is, Baha'u'llah has made it clear He is a servant of God.

Certain ones among you have said: "He it is Who hath laid claim to be God." By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 228)

Yeah, I know that passage very well. I should have remembered it but with all that is going on it slipped my mind.

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228

 

[Trailblazer]

As I just said to @Trailblazer, Baha'u'llah is a servant of God, according to His own testimony:

According to the Bible, Jesus was also a Servant of God. Obviously, that means that Jesus was not God.

Jesus: A Servant of God

 

[samtonga43]

Wrong.
It is both the people committing the atrocity, and the people who ordered it. "If the messenger says that god says that some people should be tortured to death, and believers torture some people to death, who is responsible for those people being tortured to death?"

Well, God obviously, if you trust the messenger.

No, only the people who do the torturing to death are responsible since they have free will to choose to commit it or not.

But Bahais will adhere to what their ‘messenger’ says, won’t they?

Of course there is not a single English translation that says Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time. In plain English 'Seal of the Prophets' does not mean Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time.

Lesson 10: The Prophet of Islam is the “Seal of Prophecy”

I do believe that there is a God but the only way to know that is via the Messengers of God.

No. The only way to know there is a God is via God.

The only evidence that there is a God is the Messengers of God so we have to believe in the Messengers FIRST, before we can believe in God. That is water-tight logic.

It is illogical to say that this statement is water-tight logic. As usual, it is not logical at all, because your first premise is false.
I believe there is a God, but I also believe that He is big enough to get His message across all on His own. He IS God, after all.

Capital punishment for 'some' criminals is acceptable by God.

…says the B.Man

 

[samtonga43]

So Bahaullah is more important to Bahais than god?

You may find this interesting. It reminded me of the Bahai view of the B.Man compared with the Bahai view of God.

 

[KWED]

Please provide the actual quotes that refer specifically to homosexuality that say what you are claiming, not what you think they mean.

The bits in quote marks are the actual quotes. Those are the words they used.

 

[KWED]

The argument is not if evil did not exist, then we would have no free will.
The argument is without (possibility of) evil we will have no options.

Oh dear. I can see you are at it again.
Those are two different ways of saying essentially the same thing. And they are both wrong.

In other words, if evil was not 'possible' then that would mean we have no free will to choose either evil or good.
We would merely be programmed robots who could only do good.
It is because we have free will (rather than being programmed robots) that we can choose between good and evil.

There are a whole load of things that we cannot choose because they don't exist. Does not being able to choose those mean you don't have free will? Of course not.

You seem to be arguing from the position of evil existing but you are prevented from choosing it. That is not the argument. It is if evil had never existed.
You also seem to be under the misapprehension that every choice must be a binary "good or evil", and there is only one of each. That is also complete nonsense. If evil had never existed, you would still have a wide range of options.

 

[KWED]

That is what I believe, and separation from God is the painful punishment we inflict upon ourselves when we reject God.

That makes no sense.
If we don't believe that god exists, then how can separation from him be "painful punishment"? There is no separation, and nothing to be separated from.
It's like telling you that separation from Odin will be your painful punishment for rejecting him. You would just laugh and shake your head at such complete nonsense.

No flip, because I worship God for more than one reason.

Other reasons are irrelevant.
You said. "I follow God because I am afraid of Him"
Then you said... "I do not worship god out of fear"

You contradicted yourself yet again. You keep doing this - making ad hoc statements to suit a specific question, even if they are contradictory. And you don't seem to notice you are doing it.

There is nothing blind about it. I worship God with my eyes wide open and it is a choice.
Baha'u'llah wrote that I was created for, to know and worship God.
It is not a "job" but rather the purpose of my existence.

So you don't blindly follow dogma, you just worship god because Bahaullah's writings tell you that is the purpose of your existence.

There you go again with the fallacy of false equivalence.

As I explained earlier, you don't understand the false equivalence fallacy (or any others, by the looks of it).

God is not a man so I don't have a relationship like I would have with a man.

You are behaving in the same way as a person in an abusive relationship does. Whether the other person is human, alien or imaginary is irrelevant. It is your behaviour that is the issue.

So despite making me suffer and me sometimes not really liking him, I worship Him because I know that that is what I was created for, to know and worship God.

And you "know" this how? Because Bahaullah told you. And you follow everything he says without doubt because he is the infallible messenger of god.
IOW - "blindly following dogma".
Once again, in attempting to present a counter to my argument, you have merely confirmed it. And you don't Rea;ise you have done it.

I am well aware of my feelings but I can separate my feelings from my thoughts and try to do the right thing despite how I feel.

If you "feel" that it is wrong, why do you try and "think" it is right?

 

[KWED]

You may find this interesting. It reminded me of the Bahai view of the B.Man compared with the Bahai view of God.

Indeed. "God" is a concept. Muhammad and Bahaullah and Jesus are physical people so it is not unreasonable for people to feel a greater connection.
There is no doubt that they are revered in a way that could be called idolatry.
Don't think anyone has been threatened for publishing pictures of god.

 

[KWED]

As I just said to @Trailblazer, Baha'u'llah is a servant of God, according to His own testimony:

Certain ones among you have said: "He it is Who hath laid claim to be God." By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 228)

The point here is that @Trailblazer has admitted to disagreeing with god on some issues, and not even liking him, but they regard Bahaullah as beyond criticism.
That position has logical implications.

 

[Trailblazer]

But Bahais will adhere to what their ‘messenger’ says, won’t they?

Yes, just as I 'hope' Christians will adhere to what Jesus says.

No. The only way to know there is a God is via God.

The only way to know there is a God is via God through the Messengers because Messengers are the only evidence of God's existence that God has provided .

It is illogical to say that this statement is water-tight logic. As usual, it is not logical at all, because your first premise is false.
I believe there is a God, but I also believe that He is big enough to get His message across all on His own. He IS God, after all.

It is perfectly logical, because God only does what God chooses to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

Therefore it is a moot point if God could His message across all on His own.
God does not choose to His message across all on His own, God chooses to use Messengers to get His Message across.

The only evidence that there is a God is the Messengers of God -- because that is what God chose to provide for evidence -- so we have to believe in the Messengers FIRST, before we can believe in God. That is water-tight logic.

…says the B.Man

No, says Baha'u'llah.... That is His name.
I do not call Jesus the J. man as that would be very disrespectful.

 

[Truthseeker]

Yeah, I know that passage very well. I should have remembered it but with all that is going on it slipped my mind.

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228

When I saw the informative frube I thought it gave you new information. It re-informed you instead.

 

[Truthseeker]

According to the Bible, Jesus was also a Servant of God. Obviously, that means that Jesus was not God.

Jesus: A Servant of God

You sure know how to find sources!

 

[samtonga43]

According to the Bible, Jesus was also a Servant of God. Obviously, that means that Jesus was not God.
Jesus: A Servant of God

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Philippians 2:5-7

 

[samtonga43]

As I just said to @Trailblazer, Baha'u'llah is a servant of God, according to His own testimony:

Note my emphasis.

 

[Trailblazer]

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Philippians 2:5-7

Jesus was in the 'form' of God since He was a Manifestation of God.
The verses does not say Jesus was God.

form: a particular way in which a thing exists or appears; a manifestation.
form means - Google Search

 

[Hockeycowboy]

More question begging. You are just assuming that the people teaching you are right. They could well be wrong. How would you know if you simply accept what they say as gospel (pun intended).

I don’t “simply accept” the teachings. I’ve ‘tested’ them. — Hebrews 4:1

The Scriptures not only encourage, but require, that Christians display love without stipulation. (John 13:35) Even during wartime —Matthew 5:44

This is one reason why Hitler persecuted Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany. And Josef Stalin afterward.

Staying neutral during wartime incurs the wrath of respective nations & may be difficult for us at times, but it results in having Jehovah’s spirit, which reinforces our worldwide unity and love, and a peace among ourselves that’s unrivaled anywhere. — Galatians 5:22-23.

IMO, it’s observable evidence. Many people have commented on it.

If god is guiding me, then whatever answer I give will be correct, even if it contradicts what you believe. Simply believing that you are right don't make you right.

No, the Bible exhibits a solid, internal harmony & theme when it’s teachings are accurately understood. As I stated earlier though, Jesus said only his Father (Yahweh / Jehovah) can grant that knowledge.

In fact, everything I see happening in this world — from the religious & secular confusion, to mankind’s struggle with peace, to the environment — verifies I’m on the right path as to what I believe.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Philippians 2:5-7

“…equality with God a thing to be grasped….”, from the Greek har•pag’•mon, meaning “to grasp (at), seize”; never does it mean to “hold onto.” BIG difference.

Strong's Greek: 725. ἁρπαγμός (harpagmos) -- the act of seizing or the thing seized

And you forgot vss.8-11…because of his ‘obedience,’ “God gave him the name” above others.

Just like @ Matthew 28:18… He said, “All authority has been given me..”
If he were God, he would have had it, already.

@KWED , this is part of that “religious confusion” I was talking about; especially noticeable among Christendom’s sects.

This was prophesied and expected.

 

[KWED]

No, says Baha'u'llah.... That is His name.
I do not call Jesus the J. man as that would be very disrespectful.

What about something like "B-Dog" and "J-Dog"? Such nomenclature is usually a sign of respect and affection.

 

[KWED]

I don’t “simply accept” the teachings. I’ve ‘tested’ them. — Hebrews 4:1

The Scriptures not only encourage, but require, that Christians display love without stipulation. (John 13:35) Even during wartime —Matthew 5:44

This is one reason why Hitler persecuted Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany. And Josef Stalin afterward.

Staying neutral during wartime incurs the wrath of respective nations & may be difficult for us at times, but it results in having Jehovah’s spirit, which reinforces our worldwide unity and love, and a peace among ourselves that’s unrivaled anywhere. — Galatians 5:22-23.

IMO, it’s observable evidence. Many people have commented on it.



No, the Bible exhibits a solid, internal harmony & theme when it’s teachings are accurately understood. As I stated earlier though, Jesus said only his Father (Yahweh / Jehovah) can grant that knowledge.

In fact, everything I see happening in this world — from the religious & secular confusion, to mankind’s struggle with peace, to the environment — verifies I’m on the right path as to what I believe.

All you are doing here is basically saying "I am right because I believe I am right and have been told I am right".
I believe you are wrong and I'm telling you you are wrong.
Stalemate!

 

[samtonga43]

Yes, just as I 'hope' Christians will adhere to what Jesus says.

The only way to know there is a God is via God through the Messengers because Messengers are the only evidence of God's existence that God has provided .

It is perfectly logical, because God only does what God chooses to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 209

Therefore it is a moot point if God could His message across all on His own.
God does not choose to His message across all on His own, God chooses to use Messengers to get His Message across.

The only evidence that there is a God is the Messengers of God -- because that is what God chose to provide for evidence -- so we have to believe in the Messengers FIRST, before we can believe in God. That is water-tight logic.

No, says Baha'u'llah.... That is His name.
I do not call Jesus the J. man as that would be very disrespectful.

You think so? I don't.