Questions to Quranists

[Monotheist 101]

The availability of resources other than the Holy Quran is something completely invented subsequently .

But arent most of the sources the same as the sources of the Quran, the same people who passed down the Quran passed down many of the narrations, how can you objectively accept one and reject the other?

How can we say that they were truthful in passing down the Quran and lied with the Sunna?

 

[FearGod]

But arent most of the sources the same as the sources of the Quran, the same people who passed down the Quran passed down many of the narrations, how can you objectively accept one and reject the other?

How can we say that they were truthful in passing down the Quran and lied with the Sunna?

I don't reject all the hadith but since there are many ahadith which found to be false and others weak..etc then i am just cautious which one to trust,one example the hadith about Aisha playing with a doll and swinging,we are in the 21th century and my daughter doesn't own a swing yet.

 

[Union]

But arent most of the sources the same as the sources of the Quran, the same people who passed down the Quran passed down many of the narrations, how can you objectively accept one and reject the other?

How can we say that they were truthful in passing down the Quran and lied with the Sunna?

Hadiths were compiled and passed to us by
some non-witness , third hand persons who
did never see Prophet Muhammad nor listened
to a single word from his mouth . Even none of
the Hadith writer got those teachings from any
of the companions of the Prophet . These
supposed sayings and acts of Prophet were
transmitted orally over 200+ years latter than
the Prophet and his companions which better
be defined as myths , fables and legends ,
according to the ‘science of history’ . Not a
single companion of the Prophet among
thousands left a single hadith for their next
generation .
On the contrary , the Qur’an was collected ,
compiled and preserved from the very time of
the Prophet and his direct companions who
witnessed the Prophet and heard and learnt the
Qur’an from his very mouth . Those copies of
the Qur’an are all still existing intact all around
the world . People discovering more ancient
copies of Qur’an day by day whose scientific
carbon-14 testing even pointing the period
right to the year when Prophet was alive and
his companions were alive .
Therefore it is safe to conclude that Hadith and
Qur'an are not from the same source , Hadith
from the community who never witnessed the
Prophet and Qur'an was from his companions
who directly witnessed him .

 

[egcroc]

Hello there Union... my next question for you will be asked by this funny fellow, it was meant for the biblical God, however, it's quite incredible how this fits the Quranic God as well

[youtube]FRNZHFr69t4[/youtube]
George Carlin - But He Loves You - YouTube

how do you respond to that?!! from pure Quranic POV of course

 

[FearGod]

Hello there Union... my next question for you will be asked by this funny fellow, it was meant for the biblical God, however, it's quite incredible how this fits the Quranic God as well

[youtube]FRNZHFr69t4[/youtube]
George Carlin - But He Loves You - YouTube

how do you respond to that?!! from pure Quranic POV of course

i also found it to be funny but in the quran God made it clear that he doesn't love the wrong doers

And as for those who believe and do good works, He will pay them their wages in full. Allah loveth not wrong-doers. (3:57)

 

[Union]

Hello there Union... my next question for you will be asked by this funny fellow, it was meant for the biblical God, however, it's quite incredible how this fits the Quranic God as well

[youtube]FRNZHFr69t4[/youtube]
George Carlin - But He Loves You - YouTube

how do you respond to that?!! from pure Quranic POV of course

ALLAH (swt) loves the well-doers not the evil doers . Now HE , the Exalted has a list of 10 forbidden items like below :

01- Do not associate anything with GOD .
02- Do not kill others .
03- Do not raise hell in the earth .
04- Do not swallow others' properties .
05- Do not do injustice .
06- Do not cheat .
07- Do not commit adultery .
08- Do not hurt your parents .
09- Do not confound the truth with falsehood .
10- Do not lie about GOD .

When Carlin's Creator asks him not to do those ten things and Carlin doesn't care , how he then expect still to enjoy the lavishness of paradise ??

In Qur'an - ALLAH (swt) is not only a loving GOD but also a GOD with iron-rod for the evils .

 

[egcroc]

So the Qur'anic God main difference from the biblical one is that He's not omnibenevolent and he casts people to Hell by himself... as harsh and cruel as that sounds, it still at least makes more sense than the biblical contradiction of a loving God condemning people to hell (christian apologists justify it by saying that it's their choice and they actually cast themselves to hell)...

 

[Union]

So the Qur'anic God main difference from the biblical one is that He's not omnibenevolent and he casts people to Hell by himself... as harsh and cruel as that sounds, it still at least makes more sense than the biblical contradiction of a loving God condemning people to hell (christian apologists justify it by saying that it's their choice and they actually cast themselves to hell)...

If somebody raped and killed an innocent girl brutally and never felt bad about it and repeated it with the other girls... again n again .. in that state if he died , where should he go ? Hell or heaven ? If he may go hell - who is responsible for that ? GOD or himself ?

 

[gilligan8914]

I have read about quranists and, although I have no religion myself, I believe quranism is the future of Islam because it retains the original version of Islam before the money and power hungry highjacked it for other uses. I also read that other muslims reject Quranism and have called for the death of some of it's leaders. Are they afraid of it?

 

[FearGod]

So the Qur'anic God main difference from the biblical one is that He's not omnibenevolent and he casts people to Hell by himself... as harsh and cruel as that sounds, it still at least makes more sense than the biblical contradiction of a loving God condemning people to hell (christian apologists justify it by saying that it's their choice and they actually cast themselves to hell)...

i imagine it as 2 roads,one road have signals which says "dangerous road" and the other one have signals which says "safe road"

which one you choose is yours.

We never wronged them, but they themselves did the wrong. (43:76)

 

[Union]

i imagine it as 2 roads,one road have signals which says "dangerous road" and the other one have signals which says "safe road"

which one you choose is yours.

We never wronged them, but they themselves did the wrong. (43:76)

Cool analogy . Thanks bro .

 

[Monotheist 101]

I have read about quranists and, although I have no religion myself, I believe quranism is the future of Islam because it retains the original version of Islam before the money and power hungry highjacked it for other uses. I also read that other muslims reject Quranism and have called for the death of some of it's leaders. Are they afraid of it?

I cant speak for the people who called for such horrible things, I speak out against some aspects of Quranism which leave the religion open to personal interpretation..Bidaa..

I personally believe alot of the Quran needs to be interpreted contextually with the Hadith.

 

[FearGod]

Cool analogy . Thanks bro .

Thanks for the images bro.

Keep us (O Lord) on the right path, the path of those upon whom You have bestowed Your bounties, not (the path) of those, inflicted with Your wrath, nor (of those) gone astray (1:6-7)

 

[egcroc]

Cool analogy . Thanks bro .

Hey there friends...

Again as I said before, I'm not against the idea of Justice, I'm against the abrahamic religions' concept of infinite horrible retribution for finite transgressions, Hell... and BTW Union, the list of things that send you to hell goes a lot longer than just ten commandments, and that's for just the Quran, Add the Sunnah to the equation and we're doomed, for even an unconscious slip of a tongue will send you rocketing down to hell head first :sad4:

to make it clearer for you there's something I need to share with you; the dharmic religions' concept of Hell.. Naraka
Naraka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in short, it's more like a purgatory than a punishment... people who commit bad deeds in their life go there after death to spend some finite amount of time serving the appropriate punishment for their sins (you will see that they have a different place for each sin), and after they had paid their debt and got rid of their bad karma, they're ready for rebirth... and BTW, there's no such thing as punishment for those who do not believe in Hindu gods, people are punished for their actions not their inner beliefs...

so which one is more just?!!

 

[FearGod]

Hey there friends...

Again as I said before, I'm not against the idea of Justice, I'm against the abrahamic religions' concept of infinite horrible retribution for finite transgressions, Hell... and BTW Union, the list of things that send you to hell goes a lot longer than just ten commandments, and that's for just the Quran, Add the Sunnah to the equation and we're doomed, for even an unconscious slip of a tongue will send you rocketing down to hell head first :sad4:

to make it clearer for you there's something I need to share with you; the dharmic religions' concept of Hell.. Naraka
Naraka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in short, it's more like a purgatory than a punishment... people who commit bad deeds in their life go there after death to spend some finite amount of time serving the appropriate punishment for their sins (you will see that they have a different place for each sin), and after they had paid their debt and got rid of their bad karma, they're ready for rebirth... and BTW, there's no such thing as punishment for those who do not believe in Hindu gods, people are punished for their actions not their inner beliefs...

so which one is more just?!!

i will give you an example for 2 countries,country A and country B.

In country A,if a rapist assaulted children and killed them then the punishment will be a severe punishment for 2 years and then will be freed.

If he again repeated the same crime then a severe punishment for 2 years and freed again and so on.

Death or permenant punishment is prohibited in country A in order to give the rapist or the criminal a chance to be a good guy.

In country B,the rapist who assaulted children and killed them shouldn't recieve any mercy and should be executed to death.

وَلِكُلٍّ دَرَجَاتٌ مِمَّا عَمِلُوا وَلِيُوَفِّيَهُمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ وَهُمْ لَا يُظْلَمُونَ
And for all there will be ranks from what they do, that He may pay them for their deeds; and they will not be wronged. (46:19)

 

[egcroc]

i will give you an example for 2 countries,country A and country B.

In country A,if a rapist assaulted children and killed them then the punishment will be a severe punishment for 2 years and then will be freed.

If he again repeated the same crime then a severe punishment for 2 years and freed again and so on.

Death or permenant punishment is prohibited in country A in order to give the rapist or the criminal a chance to be a good guy.

In country B,the rapist who assaulted children and killed them shouldn't recieve any mercy and should be excuted to death.

وَلِكُلٍّ دَرَجَاتٌ مِمَّا عَمِلُوا وَلِيُوَفِّيَهُمْ أَعْمَالَهُمْ وَهُمْ لَا يُظْلَمُونَ
And for all there will be ranks from what they do, that He may pay them for their deeds; and they will not be wronged. (46:19)

I don't really know of any country that gives only a 2-year sentence for rape to be honest... and I don't think you have read enough into the link I provided...

 

[FearGod]

I don't really know of any country that gives only a 2-year sentence for rape to be honest... and I don't think you have read enough into the link I provided...

i aint going to debate the Hindus philosophy here in the qur'anist Dir.

Do you think punishment can be by doing bad deeds again,let me show you one example according to the hindus philisophy.

A man called X raped 3 children and killed them,so what he did is a bad deed.

Now the 3 chidren have to rape him in the nextlife time and which is a bad deed too.

And he came to the nextlife only to be raped.

Another example if he raped a woman,then he'll be a woman in the nextlife and raped by the woman but she'll be the man.

That is a theory or a philosophy,but if you ask for my opinion and with all due respect it is to me nonsense.

Karma is great for imaginary movies only.

 

[egcroc]

i aint going to debate the Hindus philosophy here in the qur'anist Dir.

me neither, I just wanted to demonstrate some other religious model for justice other than the overly cruel one of Abrahamic faiths

Do you think punishment can be by doing bad deeds again,let me show you one example according to the hindus philisophy.

A man called X raped 3 children and killed them,so what he did is a bad deed.

Now the 3 chidren have to rape him in the nextlife time and which is a bad deed too.

And he came to the nextlife only to be raped.

Another example if he raped a woman,then he'll be a woman in the nextlife and raped by the woman but she'll be the man.

That is a theory or a philosophy,but if you ask for my opinion and with all due respect it is to me nonsense.

Karma is great for imaginary movies only.

you're absolutely right, burning and torturing him for a kazillion years in a brutal holocaust with no respite and having his skin regenerated once it's burnt out so that his torment never ends seems to serve justice just fine :sarcastic

"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." - Thomas Paine

let's just move on to another subject please

 

[FearGod]

me neither, I just wanted to demonstrate some other religious model for justice other than the overly cruel one of Abrahamic faiths

Cruel for who deserve it.

you're absolutely right, burning and torturing him for a kazillion years in a brutal holocaust with no respite and having his skin regenerated once it's burnt out so that his torment never ends seems to serve justice just fine :sarcastic

"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." - Thomas Paine

let's just move on to another subject please

i have already explained that we are the one who choose our own path,some are so brave that they say i accept god to pumish me for eternity but i'll never obey him,so they wanted it.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَا تَعْتَذِرُوا الْيَوْمَ إِنَّمَا تُجْزَوْنَ مَا كُنْتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ
(Then it will be said): O ye who disbelieve! Make no excuses for yourselves this day. Ye are only being paid for what ye used to do. (66:7)

 

[Union]

Salam all . Sorry to catch up you people late . Time is not on my side …

I could understand the concern of egcroc . But the real study of the Qur’an may ease your stress about Hell .

[002:281] And fear the Day when ye shall be brought back to God. Then shall every soul be paid what it earned, and none shall be dealt with unjustly.

[003:025] But how (will they fare) when we gather them together against a day about which there is no doubt, and each soul will be paid out just what it has earned, without (favour or) injustice?
[006:160] He that doeth good shall have ten times as much to his credit: He that doeth evil shall only be recompensed according to his evil: no wrong shall be done unto (any of) them.

[010:054] Every soul that hath sinned, if it possessed all that is on earth, would fain give it in ransom: They would declare (their) repentance when they see the penalty: but the judgment between them will be with justice, and no wrong will be done unto them.

Abstract : Almighty GOD recompenses people equitable as per their deeds …………………..(1)

[023:099] (In Falsehood will they be) Until, when death comes to one of them, he says: "O my Lord! send me back (to life),-
[023:100] "In order that I may work righteousness in the things I neglected." - "By no means! It is but a word he says."- Before them is a Partition till the Day they are raised up.
[023:101] Then when the Trumpet is blown, there will be no more relationships between them that Day, nor will one ask after another!

Abstract : Some people would do evil again n again if they would send back to earth for another chance ……………(2)

[006:128] And on the Day when He will gather them (all) together (and say): "O you assembly of jinns! Many did you mislead of men," and their Auliya (friends and helpers, etc.) amongst men will say: "Our Lord! We benefited one from the other, but now we have reached our appointed term which You did appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling place, you will dwell therein forever, except as Allah may will. Certainly your Lord is AllWise, AllKnowing."
[6:129] We thus match the wicked to be companions of each other, as a punishment for their transgressions.

[011:106] So as to those who are unhappy, they shall be in the fire; for them shall be sighing and groaning in it:
[011:107] Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends.

Abstract : Not all people will reside in hell forever , if GOD wants HE may can exempt some from hell …………………………….(3)

Now if we put points (1) , (2) and (3) in one equation , we can see that people who intend to do limited sins will end up in hell for limited time and people who intend to do sins forever , they would end up in hell for ever .