Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
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Quiet, introverted people
- Thread starter Chisti
- Start date
Because they're introverts. Duh.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I'm a shy and quiet guy by nature, and growing up with an anxiety disorder didn't help any.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Well, just a bit of perspective here.
I am outgoing and extroverted, "never meet a stranger," "social butterfly," etc.
This doesn't mean I'm close to a lot of people. Just like you, in high school, I only had two or three close friends, and to this day that's still true. However, as pointed out earlier, most extroverts are energized by social interaction - they find it stimulating and interesting and fun.
With extroverted people, they may seem to those who are shy to have a lot of "friends," when the reality is that most people really only have a few real friends, regardless of whether they are extroverted or introverted.
This doesn't mean that extroverts are shallow or "fake." As an extrovert, I can promise you that when I am warm and friendly and conversational with strangers or casual acquaintances, I'm not doing that in any sort of fake way. I am genuinely interested in the person and the conversation. But that doesn't mean they're going to come home with me and sit up till 2 am talking over a couple of bottles of wine. No - that's just for very close friends.
I think that maybe introverts see the social comfort and activity of extroverts and may make assumptions that it's not genuine behavior, because if THEY acted that way, it wouldn't be genuine. It is uncomfortable and difficult for them, something they would have to force. It's just not that way with extroverts. Silence in social situations is often uncomfortable and difficult for extroverts - just as much so as conversation is for an introvert.
I think it's helpful for each end of the spectrum to try to understand and accept this about each other, rather than ridicule or judge others who differ in their self expression.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
And some introverts wonder why some people think they're "snobs" or feel superior???
Speaking as an extrovert, I'd like to point out that many extroverts strike up conversations with others because they are truly interested in the other person. They see casual conversation as something pleasant, a way to learn more about other people, a way to share commonalities and the human experience.
They don't necessarily do this to be the center of attention or because they have low self esteem - though just as some introverts have self esteem issues, I'm sure some extroverts do as well.
They don't do it to make anyone uncomfortable, any more than an introvert tries to make others uncomfortable with their silence. It's just the way they are, and just as you cannot change your basic personality, they can't either.
And neither end of the spectrum is superior.
Just as you are sometimes put off by an extrovert's chatter, I can assure you that they are just as put off by your silence. Just as you see them as self absorbed, they often see you as self absorbed as well. You accuse them of being uninterested in others, but it seems that you are also uninterested in them, so in what way is your position superior?
As an extrovert, I can assure you that my urge to include others in conversation is a trait that I cannot change. What I can (and do) do is try to be sensitive to the needs and feelings of others. Whether we are introverted or extroverted, that principle should be lived in social situations.
When we embrace that principle, it manifests itself in kindness to others, and in a generosity of spirit and lack of judgmentalism that I find quite lacking in your post.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
This OP made me think back over my lifetime and consider my very best friends. I sat here and determined what part of the spectrum they fall into.
I've realized that throughout my life, I've always had 2 or 3 close friends, regardless of where I've lived or for how long (I've moved a lot in my life, so those friends have shifted over time). I've remained in contact with many of them, but of course proximity plays a big role in friendship, so of course the names and faces have changed, but the number of close friends at any given time has not.
It's odd, but I just realized something. Within that group, there has ALWAYS been one extrovert like myself, and one introvert, and sometimes one other more moderate person who doesn't fall on either extreme end.
The introverts have always been very dear to me, as well as the extroverts, and I believe they've loved me just as much, in spite of our very different personalities.
Thinking through these small groups, I've also realized just how comfortable we all were with each other. I can think through shared "girl vacations" and many "girl nights" with those small circles, evenings shared out on a patio, laughing and/or crying far into the night.
Within those very small, intimate circles, extroversion and introversion came to mean nothing at all. We each draw strength from each other in different areas. Within those precious friendships, the differences become minimized and our shared emotions and interests become the focus.
I dearly love my introverted friends, and apparently they dearly love me too. I can also say that my friendships with them have given me much more understanding of other quieter people.
Here's a good, recent example of this whole concept. For several years my husband and I (both extroverts) have had season tickets to the high school games, and our seats are right beside another couple who I didn't know outside of these games. They're a very attractive couple and the wife is always dressed to the nines, perfectly coiffed and manicured and accessorized, in expensive jeans, elegant sandals or boots, and adorable shirts or vests, every lovely hair in place. In spite of sitting in very close proximity to them for years, they never seemed all that friendly. Not ONCE did they instigate a conversation, and when we said something friendly to them, their responses would be short and polite.
Well, that just got to me over time. My husband told me "yeah, I went to college with her. She was a Rangerette, and she's always been a snob."
So, that's how I had her categorized, and I was sure she was absolutely appalled by my behavior at the games - whooping and hollering and jumping up and down while she sat there beside me all prim and proper.
Last year, we put our house on the market FSBO. Well - she's a realtor, and she wanted to show some buyers our house, so when she called from the sign, I said sure, bring them over.
To make a long story short, eventually we allowed her to list our house. In spite of her lack of what we'd call "warmth," she was very professional, and she really impress us with her knowledge and diligence. But I still thought she was a snob.
Well, when we got an offer on our house, we had to find another one, and that meant getting in the car with her and looking at homes for hours. During that time, I finally got to know her.
Come to find out - why, she's not a snob at all! In fact, she's a beautiful person inside and out. She told me, after we knew each other better, that she is extremely self conscious, because she has a stutter! Now, I never had even noticed this, but apparently, she's worked very hard all her life to overcome this stutter. THAT'S why she doesn't just throw herself into conversations!
She also told me that she's always thought my husband is hilarious, and that she loves watching us go crazy at the games when our son plays well. Now - whether that's really true, I don't know, but what I've found as I've worked with her is that she is a very honest and sincere person.
Now, she is one of my favorite people in this town. Occasionally, because both of us have pretty high profile jobs in this small town, I will hear someone make a comment about how snobbish she is - and I am the first to jump to her defense.
I was very touched when she shared the story of her stutter to me. Here was this beautiful, poised and elegant, "aloof" woman, with tears in her eyes, telling me how much she admired my warmth and ease with others, because she had never felt that way a moment in her life.
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
I've realized that throughout my life, I've always had 2 or 3 close friends, regardless of where I've lived or for how long (I've moved a lot in my life, so those friends have shifted over time). I've remained in contact with many of them, but of course proximity plays a big role in friendship, so of course the names and faces have changed, but the number of close friends at any given time has not.
It's odd, but I just realized something. Within that group, there has ALWAYS been one extrovert like myself, and one introvert, and sometimes one other more moderate person who doesn't fall on either extreme end.
The introverts have always been very dear to me, as well as the extroverts, and I believe they've loved me just as much, in spite of our very different personalities.
Thinking through these small groups, I've also realized just how comfortable we all were with each other. I can think through shared "girl vacations" and many "girl nights" with those small circles, evenings shared out on a patio, laughing and/or crying far into the night.
Within those very small, intimate circles, extroversion and introversion came to mean nothing at all. We each draw strength from each other in different areas. Within those precious friendships, the differences become minimized and our shared emotions and interests become the focus.
I dearly love my introverted friends, and apparently they dearly love me too. I can also say that my friendships with them have given me much more understanding of other quieter people.
Here's a good, recent example of this whole concept. For several years my husband and I (both extroverts) have had season tickets to the high school games, and our seats are right beside another couple who I didn't know outside of these games. They're a very attractive couple and the wife is always dressed to the nines, perfectly coiffed and manicured and accessorized, in expensive jeans, elegant sandals or boots, and adorable shirts or vests, every lovely hair in place. In spite of sitting in very close proximity to them for years, they never seemed all that friendly. Not ONCE did they instigate a conversation, and when we said something friendly to them, their responses would be short and polite.
Well, that just got to me over time. My husband told me "yeah, I went to college with her. She was a Rangerette, and she's always been a snob."
So, that's how I had her categorized, and I was sure she was absolutely appalled by my behavior at the games - whooping and hollering and jumping up and down while she sat there beside me all prim and proper.
Last year, we put our house on the market FSBO. Well - she's a realtor, and she wanted to show some buyers our house, so when she called from the sign, I said sure, bring them over.
To make a long story short, eventually we allowed her to list our house. In spite of her lack of what we'd call "warmth," she was very professional, and she really impress us with her knowledge and diligence. But I still thought she was a snob.
Well, when we got an offer on our house, we had to find another one, and that meant getting in the car with her and looking at homes for hours. During that time, I finally got to know her.
Come to find out - why, she's not a snob at all! In fact, she's a beautiful person inside and out. She told me, after we knew each other better, that she is extremely self conscious, because she has a stutter! Now, I never had even noticed this, but apparently, she's worked very hard all her life to overcome this stutter. THAT'S why she doesn't just throw herself into conversations!
She also told me that she's always thought my husband is hilarious, and that she loves watching us go crazy at the games when our son plays well. Now - whether that's really true, I don't know, but what I've found as I've worked with her is that she is a very honest and sincere person.
Now, she is one of my favorite people in this town. Occasionally, because both of us have pretty high profile jobs in this small town, I will hear someone make a comment about how snobbish she is - and I am the first to jump to her defense.
I was very touched when she shared the story of her stutter to me. Here was this beautiful, poised and elegant, "aloof" woman, with tears in her eyes, telling me how much she admired my warmth and ease with others, because she had never felt that way a moment in her life.
Don't judge a book by it's cover.
Chisti
Active Member
You're right that introverts and extroverts are different people and that each has a different need, and so on. But the difference is, at least introverts will leave you alone and won't bother you. So try as he may, he can never be as annoying as the extrovert (simply because the former is too quiet to do or say hurtful things in the first place).
EDIT:
Anyway, my point is not merely random individuals. I am talking about how being extroverted, sociable has become the norm, and how introverts are unfairly judged on that basis.
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Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Are you saying though, that extroverts in general commonly say hurtful things or are annoying?
Here's the thing - silence and lack of interest can also be annoying and hurtful. Do you realize that?
I'm not saying that some extroverts aren't annoying - of course they are. So are some introverts. It's just as uncomfortable for an extrovert to be "stuck" in a social situation with someone who refuses to interact with them or show warmth or friendliness, as it is for an introvert to be "stuck" with someone who insists on trying to engage them in conversation.
My point is that both extremes should try to understand the other rather than focusing on what irritates them about the other.
"Seek first to understand" before you judge.
Noaidi
slow walker
Interesting story, Kathryn. Thanks for posting it.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Oh come on - as if extroverts hurt more people. Give me a break.
You're acting as if extroverts are more likely to use words and actions to communicate bad intentions or send a hurtful message. That's a ridiculous position to take.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I sense a bit of a victim mentality at play here.
You really have no idea what annoys extroverts, do you?
You're acting as if an extroverted person striking up a conversation with you in the grocery store line is somehow threatening you or being too aggressive somehow. Did it ever occur to you that they may be genuinely interested in you, or really want to say something nice to you? "Hey, nice jacket. I love the color."
Did it ever occur to you that if a person smiles at you or says something nice, and you greet that friendliness with a sullen expression or silence, that your response may be just as hurtful as whatever it is that seems to be bothering you so much about their assertiveness?
There are lots of ways to hurt people. Sometimes silence can be a very effective way to inflict pain.
I think I'm in the middle here.
I am very friendly and quite good at small talk. I'm the stranger who will greet you with a wide smile. If I make you laugh, all the better.
However, I do not ask a lot of questions, and it bothers me when strangers ask me things like, "Where do you live? What do you do for a living? Do you have children? What brings you here?" and so on. I know people are just being friendly or are a bit curious, but I feel this is too personal.
I enjoy social functions and usually contribute to the fun. I come from a big, loud, silly family, and we can get quite rowdy.
On the other hand, I love to be home in my kitchen, or knitting in my living room, or reading in bed. When my calendar fills up, I get a little annoyed.
Can't figure me out.
I am very friendly and quite good at small talk. I'm the stranger who will greet you with a wide smile. If I make you laugh, all the better.
However, I do not ask a lot of questions, and it bothers me when strangers ask me things like, "Where do you live? What do you do for a living? Do you have children? What brings you here?" and so on. I know people are just being friendly or are a bit curious, but I feel this is too personal.
I enjoy social functions and usually contribute to the fun. I come from a big, loud, silly family, and we can get quite rowdy.
On the other hand, I love to be home in my kitchen, or knitting in my living room, or reading in bed. When my calendar fills up, I get a little annoyed.
Can't figure me out.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Anne, you're probably just "normal" whatever that is.
I am definitely an extrovert - and it's a trait that has contributed a lot to my career and the overall happiness of my life and my family.
I love my job as a bank manager - I love getting to know our customers and being very involved in our community. Prior to this position, I was a corporate trainer for a large company and I traveled extensively, mentoring new business owners and leading seminars and doing some public speaking. I really, really enjoyed that as well - especially traveling to different regions and inflicting my southern drawl on others.
I don't think I hurt or irritated too many people, or my services wouldn't have been much in demand.
I also can't imagine doing either of these things careerwise if I wasn't an extrovert. But hey, that's just me.
All that being said, even I relish quiet time at home, either alone or with just my husband or immediate family. In fact, I often either stay up very late or get up very early just to spend very quiet time alone, before I face a hectic day. I get up every morning at 5:00 or 5:30 just so I can have two hours of solitude (and four cups of coffee!). And I am very territorial about my weekends. I just about will NOT do anything work related on the weekend, and I have to have a least one day totally at home, quietly piddling in the yard or house or on an art project.
I want to point something out to those who are more introverted. You never know what makes a person who they are - as my earlier story about my quiet realtor friend shows. Let me give you some background on what makes some people extroverted.
I am a former military brat. I went to nine schools in eight years. Very early on, I realized that if I didn't jump right in and make friends immediately, I would go through my life basically friendless. So - I learned to swallow my fear and my sorrow for leaving old friends behind, and smile brightly in a new direction. I learned to throw myself into a new school or class or neighborhood with gusto and enthusiasm, because I didn't have the luxury of allowing relationships or social networks to develop slowly over time. I knew that if I didn't assertively seek out friendships, I would just be alone - the new girl - the one no one ever really knew before she moved away again...
So - this pattern remained entrenched in me. What you see is what you get. I speak simply and boldly. I state my opinion. I'm solutions oriented. I'm friendly and energetic. I'm easy to get to know - intentionally.
Deep inside me is a quieter, more private person - with very deep joys, fears, griefs, and desires. Only a few people will ever know that person. She's probably the person I would have been had I not been forced from a very early age to be braver, bolder, and brasher. But - I am who I am now, and overall, I like who I am. I may as well - I can't change my basic personality anyway.
When I am with a quiet person, who also usually doesn't move as fast as I do either, I try to consciously slow and quiet my speech and movements, but it takes discipline. Over the years, I've learned to hold back appropriately for the most part.
But - introverts, when you're stuck in a small space with an extrovert, you may want to remind yourself that their wide smile and their eager conversation may spring from a deeper well of emotion than you give them credit for.
I am definitely an extrovert - and it's a trait that has contributed a lot to my career and the overall happiness of my life and my family.
I love my job as a bank manager - I love getting to know our customers and being very involved in our community. Prior to this position, I was a corporate trainer for a large company and I traveled extensively, mentoring new business owners and leading seminars and doing some public speaking. I really, really enjoyed that as well - especially traveling to different regions and inflicting my southern drawl on others.
I don't think I hurt or irritated too many people, or my services wouldn't have been much in demand.
I also can't imagine doing either of these things careerwise if I wasn't an extrovert. But hey, that's just me.
All that being said, even I relish quiet time at home, either alone or with just my husband or immediate family. In fact, I often either stay up very late or get up very early just to spend very quiet time alone, before I face a hectic day. I get up every morning at 5:00 or 5:30 just so I can have two hours of solitude (and four cups of coffee!). And I am very territorial about my weekends. I just about will NOT do anything work related on the weekend, and I have to have a least one day totally at home, quietly piddling in the yard or house or on an art project.
I want to point something out to those who are more introverted. You never know what makes a person who they are - as my earlier story about my quiet realtor friend shows. Let me give you some background on what makes some people extroverted.
I am a former military brat. I went to nine schools in eight years. Very early on, I realized that if I didn't jump right in and make friends immediately, I would go through my life basically friendless. So - I learned to swallow my fear and my sorrow for leaving old friends behind, and smile brightly in a new direction. I learned to throw myself into a new school or class or neighborhood with gusto and enthusiasm, because I didn't have the luxury of allowing relationships or social networks to develop slowly over time. I knew that if I didn't assertively seek out friendships, I would just be alone - the new girl - the one no one ever really knew before she moved away again...
So - this pattern remained entrenched in me. What you see is what you get. I speak simply and boldly. I state my opinion. I'm solutions oriented. I'm friendly and energetic. I'm easy to get to know - intentionally.
Deep inside me is a quieter, more private person - with very deep joys, fears, griefs, and desires. Only a few people will ever know that person. She's probably the person I would have been had I not been forced from a very early age to be braver, bolder, and brasher. But - I am who I am now, and overall, I like who I am. I may as well - I can't change my basic personality anyway.
When I am with a quiet person, who also usually doesn't move as fast as I do either, I try to consciously slow and quiet my speech and movements, but it takes discipline. Over the years, I've learned to hold back appropriately for the most part.
But - introverts, when you're stuck in a small space with an extrovert, you may want to remind yourself that their wide smile and their eager conversation may spring from a deeper well of emotion than you give them credit for.
Not too many people call me "normal".
I could see this happening ~ it makes a lot of sense.
I make friends easily, but I don't make close friends easily (which I think I remember you mentioning in an earlier post). I keep a certain distance from most and don't share intimate details or feelings, which is funny because I'll always lend an ear to a problem or a shoulder to cry on.
I think the ones who know me best (aside from my husband), and really know my deepest fears and joys, are my mother and sisters. My daughters, as they get older, are starting to join that circle as well.
My girlfriends, though, know only so much. I'm not really sure why I do that.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I'm the same way. My husband knows just about everything about me and my personality (not that he claims to understand me!), and my dad and I are also very, very close. In fact, those two men are probably the people who know me best in this world, closely followed by my two daughters, and, as time goes on, my sons as well.
I have two friends (women) who also know and love me very well -and one is an extreme extrovert, liberal, loudmouthed tiny Italian woman, and the other is a very serious, quiet, socially awkward intellectual. Odd how I can love two such different people equally, but I do.
I have a larger circle of friends - maybe 8 or 10 - who I get together with for lunch or shopping occasionally, that sort of thing, but like you, Anne, I don't share much depth with them. In fact, they've told me before that they are occasionally very surprised at my depth or my intellectualism at times - which makes me wonder exactly what they see in me! Especially since the reality is that though I am nearly always laughing, cheerful, gregarious, etc in public, I'm actually very serious, read nearly all non fiction (history - like Russian history or the history of the plague, that sort of thing, or theology), and really am a pretty deep thinker.
I'm a banker, for pete's sake. Do they think I got there by watching Jersey Shore and vacationing in Vegas???
I have two friends (women) who also know and love me very well -and one is an extreme extrovert, liberal, loudmouthed tiny Italian woman, and the other is a very serious, quiet, socially awkward intellectual. Odd how I can love two such different people equally, but I do.
I have a larger circle of friends - maybe 8 or 10 - who I get together with for lunch or shopping occasionally, that sort of thing, but like you, Anne, I don't share much depth with them. In fact, they've told me before that they are occasionally very surprised at my depth or my intellectualism at times - which makes me wonder exactly what they see in me! Especially since the reality is that though I am nearly always laughing, cheerful, gregarious, etc in public, I'm actually very serious, read nearly all non fiction (history - like Russian history or the history of the plague, that sort of thing, or theology), and really am a pretty deep thinker.
I'm a banker, for pete's sake. Do they think I got there by watching Jersey Shore and vacationing in Vegas???
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Extroverts are shallow jerks and introverts are whiny losers. Everybody sucks in a different way. This is why I'm a nonovert.
Chisti
Active Member
There is nothing wrong with a person striking up a conversation. But do extroverts do merely that, or do they often cross the line?
If they were to say something nice, no one's gonna have a problem with that. So it must be something else. They're being too loud, too intrusive, too crude, all the while imagining that they're being nice and warm and friendly. Did that ever occur to you?
Nice twist, showing black as white and vice versa. If a person were nice, no one's gonna react with a sullen expression. So it must be something else: nosy isn't all that nice.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Your earlier posts did not differentiate between outright rudeness from extroverts and simply typical extroverted behavior - in fact, they strongly implied that typical extroverted behavior in and of itself IS rude.
Of course I am not saying that rudeness from anyone is acceptable. What I AM saying is that rudeness isn't any more common in extroverts than it is in introverts. Both extremes can be and often are guilty of rude behavior which irritates or hurts others, and no one extreme is any more or less prone to rudeness than the other.
However, based on your posts, I believe that you, as an introvert, are more aware of rudeness by extroverts than other introverts, and your posts portray a sense of victimization. My point was to level the playing field and show you that, just as you find some extrovert traits irritating and even hurtful, extroverts find some introvert traits irritating or even hurtful.
The difference between your expressed opinion on this and mine is that you seem to be minimizing the negative traits of introversion and magnifying the negative traits of extroversion, while I am saying that each type has equal positives and negatives.
My take on it seems more realistic and fair minded.
*standing ovation for Kathryn*
Hear hear! Thanks for eloquently stating the position of extroverts - or at least us super cool extroverts.
I'm like my father. I can comfortably walk into a room where I don't know anybody, and can strike up a conversation with at least a couple dozen people. I simply find people fascinating, and I love getting to know others and finding what is lovely and inspiring about them.
That's my M.O.
Hear hear! Thanks for eloquently stating the position of extroverts - or at least us super cool extroverts.
I'm like my father. I can comfortably walk into a room where I don't know anybody, and can strike up a conversation with at least a couple dozen people. I simply find people fascinating, and I love getting to know others and finding what is lovely and inspiring about them.
That's my M.O.